Another Hatton/Witter thread?
Posted: 23 Apr 2004, 07:51
Not another Hatton-Witter thread!!
Oh yes it is. I will discuss the respective careers of Hatton, Witter
Quite a long read, but if you are bored or an insomniac maybe it is of interest to you. If not, at least I got it off my chest.
Where do these guys (Richard Hatton and Junior Witter) really sit on the world stage? Are they over rated? -I say yes.
Should they face each other? I again say yes
Where do they rate as opposed to other fringe contenders Pinto and Cotto? Read on
Hatton 35 and “0” and been a pro since autumn 1997. Most notable win versus Eamonn Magee in June 2002. Most notable opponent: Vince Phillips
Junior Witter 28 wins from 31 fights Most notable win: probably Jan Bergman in 1998 and most notable opponent being Zab Judah
Ricky Hatton has benefited from amazing matchmaking and quite superb marketing via his management and promotional teams. Spotted by Sports Network early on in his career, Hatton was promoted very early on; (in his boxing development in the professional ranks); via SKY Sports coverage and was talked about and seen from the embryonic stages on his career via this medium.
This has snowballed, and paid off for team Hatton.
In Manchester, Hatton can be guaranteed to sell out the MEN and similar venues. He has done very well and can thank great support teams for his career, as well as his undoubted talent.
Hatton won the inauspicious WBU title in late 2000. Six defences later against statistically impressive but mediocre opponents (i.e. opponents with impressive records but either well past their prime or coming up in weight…good match making) prepared Hatton for the biggest step of his 5-year career. A tussle against the world rated Eamonn Magee who had shared a common opponent in Thaxton, and who had previously shared the ring with the rated young American Teddy Reid, and Shea Neary (from whom he won the Commonwealth crown)
Hatton survived a late first round knockdown and a horrible second round, and changed his usually aggressive tactics, to box on the outside more, to outpoint the rugged counter puncher, Magee. Those at ringside had Hatton winning by 2 rounds. It was a good performance, although one felt that if Magee had been busier, a different outcome would have ensued.
Since that June evening in 2002 Hatton and team have been back to the ring 6 times; The Steven Smith debacle; which was again a lightweight moving up; Joe Hutchison was an American with a padded record. (This show in Newcastle also featured Calzaghe against Tocker Pudwill…dear oh dear)
Then came another test. Vince Cool Phillips, 40 years young, ex-IBF light-welterweight champion. The only man to have beaten the current and undisputed champ Kostya Tszyu; and that win via tenth round knockout. A man who had gone 12 rounds with the highly rated Sharmba Mitchell only five months previously.
Hatton won quite impressively, winning basically every round, against the wily veteran, who looked to detonate one of his trademark power shots.
Phillips is now looking at K1 in Japan
Next up Aldo Rios in November; a lightweight who was waiting in the wings five months previously as a late replacement for Phillips (Phillips was arguing with the promotion team about cash, right up until the opening bell apparently) Rios was out-muscled and although game; was stopped in the ninth.
Three months later came Ben Tackie, the Ghanian who had built an impressive record; and indeed had beaten the aforementioned Teddy Reid (A badly shot Teddy Reid I might add). The fact is that Ben Tackie although impervious to punishment, lost every time he stepped up in class. The names Ben Tackie had lost to, Goyo Vargas, John-John Molina, Kostya Tszyu, and Sharmba Mitchell.
Now Ben Tackie was highly rated by the American press, and was picked by some pundits to beat Tszyu. This opinion was mainly formed due to the TKO of Reid previously, and more likely the Ray Oliveira majority decision win before that.
When Tackie came to Manchester he had lost his previous two contests versus Tszyu and Mitchell by wide UD’s. In fact it could be argued that Tackie hadn’t won a round in two fights, albeit against the top two fighters in the world.
Was Tackie on the slide or had he been exposed, as a one-dimensional plodder? The fight with Hatton may have given us our answer. 12 one-sided rounds confirmed suspicions amongst the experts that this was again, superb matchmaking.
Then came what the boxing public wanted, A Test. Up and coming Kelson Pinto had been talked about for over a year as one to watch in the 140lb weight class. He had beaten we were told the exciting Miguel Cotto (who we have all seen and been impressed by) in the amateurs and American writers were very excited about his potential and scope at world level. We in the UK had a slight knowledge of Pinto as he had been mooted to fight our own Junior Witter; last December; only to see this fight fall through after Witter sustained an injury.
Hatton himself knew this was the fight where he could really stamp his authority at 140lbs and send out a message to the main players.
Pinto pulled out a couple of days before the fight.
Dennis Pederson a previous lightweight stepped to save a show and put up admirable resistance, before being stopped in the sixth round. Pederson saved the show for the Hatton team and his promoters who had again sold out the MEN Arena in Manchester.
Allegedly Junior Witter upon hearing that Pinto was out of the fight declared himself available to fight Hatton. This was rejected to the groans of most British fans.
Junior Witter has been more of an enigma. His past has not been as extensively covered by the media, as say Ricky Hatton’s. So Witter is not as well known by non-hardcore fans.
He first came to my attention when he beat the previously highly rated Jan Bergman in 1998. Bergman had been in with Kostya Tszyu and went onto knock Zab Judah over before ultimately being stopped. Witter beat Bergman on points over six rounds. Incidentally, Ricky Hatton appeared on the same show that night in his fifth pro outing.
However, Witter’s main claim to fame was fighting Zab Judah the WBO 140lb champion on seven days notice in June 2000. It was on the Tyson versus Savarese bill in Glasgow, Scotland. Witter came across as loud and brash at the press conference; telling Judah he would shock him.
The fight was quite unforgettable, for all the wrong reasons. Witter made a good impression in the first round, boxing on the back foot quite beautifully. Then reverse gear was selected for the remainder of the fight. Judah won comfortably and the US audience was not overjoyed at the British fighters negative attitude in the ring.
Could this performance have been explained by having only seven days notice for a WBO title shot? Maybe, but this performance maybe one reason that Junior Witter does not have a higher profile.
Undeterred Witter has proceeded to have 13 unbeaten contests, all finished early.
Against whom you may ask? To the uninformed not many recognisable names jump out at you, except maybe Giuseppe Lauri who is a common opponent for both Witter and Hatton, and maybe Steve Conway (another lighter man fighting at the wrong weight)
The biggest thing that has happened in most fans’ minds though is the name that does not appear on Witter’s resume, that of Kelson Pinto. Yes the same Pinto that did not get on his flight to Manchester 6 weeks ago.
Witter himself was scheduled to fight Pinto on the Hatton v Tackie card last December, only to pull out due to a hand injury.
Three times Witter has appeared on the under-card, as support to a Ricky Hatton headlined show in Manchester.
Maybe boxing fans were hoping for a potential Hatton versus Witter contest at some later date. It was certainly alluded to. Both men happy to talk about a potential match up. Especially Witter who seemed to have in his contract, a clause to goad Hatton at each and every opportunity.
So what next?
I feel both men have stagnated somewhat since my “most note-able contests” Witter more so, because it is basically four years since the Judah experience.
Hatton since the Magee fight has still not fought a top ten fighter, although he has fought two “names” Phillips (too old) and Tackie (sadly overrated and not top tier).
I would ask people to look at Eamonn Magee since he fought Hatton. OK he hasn’t been the most active of fighters, but has gone to Germany to fight Oktay Urkal, for the European title. Again inactivity may have proved decisive, as Magee was just outworked to lose, a close decision although flooring the champion during the contest. If he had won who knows he may have been the man fighting Vivian Harris. (Although would he have been put in with for a WBA champion over the networks marquee fighter Hatton?)
I do feel that Hatton or Witter would have gained much more by pursuing this type of contest. Not only a bona-fide world ranking; but also much kudos amongst boxing aficionados throughout Britain, Europe and the US.
Also theses sort fights are surely “make-able”?
Hatton has the fan base to sell out the MEN arena at any time and against anybody. Witter sadly cannot do so.
It is a shame that this is the case because although Witter does rub people up the wrong way, he is a nice guy trying to play a bad guy. He does however possess oodles of personality, which comes across every time he is on the screen being interviewed The Judah conference being a case in point.
Has Witter’s personality been an untapped resource? In my opinion, yes it has. He could have been marketed very easily as the bad guy versus Hatton; and an opportunity has been lost, maybe for good.
Where do our 140lb’ers rate against the up and comers from the other side of the Atlantic? - If we are talking Pinto and Cotto, then that is a difficult question to answer. However we should attempt to.
Cotto is 19-0-0 with 16 KO’s. A fighter with no apparent weaknesses and is being moved up through the ranks quickly.
Cotto is 23 years old.
This year (his third as a pro) Cotto is scheduled to fight Lovemore N’Dou in Las Vegas. Although Puerto Rican, Cotto has been blooded in the US primarily, a fight at the MGM Grand will pose no fears for him. Cotto has fought in Vegas several times in his short career.
He is destined for the very top say the respected American press.
And who are we to doubt them?
Pinto is proving more difficult to gage. 20 and “0” with 18 stoppages. Again well respected by the American press, his major claim to fame is beating Cotto in the amateur ranks.
However his stock has been decreased due to the Hatton fiasco in March/April this year.
Hopefully we will see Pinto in action this year so we can make a more informed opinion of his potential, and his overall ability.
I used the word enigma earlier…I would use it again to describe Francisco Bojado. Along with Cotto, this is a fighter who really excites me, although his future may ultimately lie at Welterweight.
Watch this guy (blimey, I sound like Barry McGuigan), if he keeps his feet on the ground and stays dedicated, he may upset someone, sometime soon.
Where do these young guys rank versus Hatton and Witter? Well they do rank with them at least, because they are fighting stateside for one and are being moved very fast. Cotto is ranked highly already and fighting another “name opponent” next month. Then look for a bona-fide title shot in his 21st outing. Not bad eh? His next 2-3 fights will tell us exactly how confident his handlers are of Miguel Cotto.
That is Very Confident.
They are both younger than Hatton and Witter.
They may have more hunger than Hatton and Witter.
Would they fight Hatton or Witter? It seems Pinto may not just yet. I would expect Cotto to be on the next flight over if asked.
Hatton and Witter need to do something and something quick, to get to the very top they need to stop messing around.
They both talk about being “the best”. That involves beating the best.
Otherwise they should just fight each other and make a lot of money between them. There are enough of us British fans who will pay good money to see this contest.
June 5th anyone?
When Cotto gets his world titles (and it really is when), I can’t really see him getting dethroned by either of our men.
Why? Eamonn Magee (I keep coming back to him) once said of Ricky Hatton, that “he beats old men and blown up lightweights”. He would probably have said the same of Witter with the word “unknown” sandwiched somewhere in there.
These old men and blown up lightweights are no credentials to get in the ring with a bona=fide worlds champion who has paid his dues and polished his skills against the best.
How much longer before Hatton’s propensity to cut rears it’s ugly head again, and renders his world aspirations redundant?
How long before Witter’s reflexes slow and curtail what should have been a high profile career?
If Hatton and Witter were to meet (hoping), who do I think would win? I think my answer has been well documented before. The Hitter has the style to do very well against Hatton, and I am in the minority who think he would beat “The Hitman” either by short or longer distance.
Good luck to Richard Hatton and Junior Witter in their respective quests. I hope they do succeed. They need to hurry though.
I am prepared to be shot down in flames by all you guys
Si
Oh yes it is. I will discuss the respective careers of Hatton, Witter
Quite a long read, but if you are bored or an insomniac maybe it is of interest to you. If not, at least I got it off my chest.
Where do these guys (Richard Hatton and Junior Witter) really sit on the world stage? Are they over rated? -I say yes.
Should they face each other? I again say yes
Where do they rate as opposed to other fringe contenders Pinto and Cotto? Read on
Hatton 35 and “0” and been a pro since autumn 1997. Most notable win versus Eamonn Magee in June 2002. Most notable opponent: Vince Phillips
Junior Witter 28 wins from 31 fights Most notable win: probably Jan Bergman in 1998 and most notable opponent being Zab Judah
Ricky Hatton has benefited from amazing matchmaking and quite superb marketing via his management and promotional teams. Spotted by Sports Network early on in his career, Hatton was promoted very early on; (in his boxing development in the professional ranks); via SKY Sports coverage and was talked about and seen from the embryonic stages on his career via this medium.
This has snowballed, and paid off for team Hatton.
In Manchester, Hatton can be guaranteed to sell out the MEN and similar venues. He has done very well and can thank great support teams for his career, as well as his undoubted talent.
Hatton won the inauspicious WBU title in late 2000. Six defences later against statistically impressive but mediocre opponents (i.e. opponents with impressive records but either well past their prime or coming up in weight…good match making) prepared Hatton for the biggest step of his 5-year career. A tussle against the world rated Eamonn Magee who had shared a common opponent in Thaxton, and who had previously shared the ring with the rated young American Teddy Reid, and Shea Neary (from whom he won the Commonwealth crown)
Hatton survived a late first round knockdown and a horrible second round, and changed his usually aggressive tactics, to box on the outside more, to outpoint the rugged counter puncher, Magee. Those at ringside had Hatton winning by 2 rounds. It was a good performance, although one felt that if Magee had been busier, a different outcome would have ensued.
Since that June evening in 2002 Hatton and team have been back to the ring 6 times; The Steven Smith debacle; which was again a lightweight moving up; Joe Hutchison was an American with a padded record. (This show in Newcastle also featured Calzaghe against Tocker Pudwill…dear oh dear)
Then came another test. Vince Cool Phillips, 40 years young, ex-IBF light-welterweight champion. The only man to have beaten the current and undisputed champ Kostya Tszyu; and that win via tenth round knockout. A man who had gone 12 rounds with the highly rated Sharmba Mitchell only five months previously.
Hatton won quite impressively, winning basically every round, against the wily veteran, who looked to detonate one of his trademark power shots.
Phillips is now looking at K1 in Japan
Next up Aldo Rios in November; a lightweight who was waiting in the wings five months previously as a late replacement for Phillips (Phillips was arguing with the promotion team about cash, right up until the opening bell apparently) Rios was out-muscled and although game; was stopped in the ninth.
Three months later came Ben Tackie, the Ghanian who had built an impressive record; and indeed had beaten the aforementioned Teddy Reid (A badly shot Teddy Reid I might add). The fact is that Ben Tackie although impervious to punishment, lost every time he stepped up in class. The names Ben Tackie had lost to, Goyo Vargas, John-John Molina, Kostya Tszyu, and Sharmba Mitchell.
Now Ben Tackie was highly rated by the American press, and was picked by some pundits to beat Tszyu. This opinion was mainly formed due to the TKO of Reid previously, and more likely the Ray Oliveira majority decision win before that.
When Tackie came to Manchester he had lost his previous two contests versus Tszyu and Mitchell by wide UD’s. In fact it could be argued that Tackie hadn’t won a round in two fights, albeit against the top two fighters in the world.
Was Tackie on the slide or had he been exposed, as a one-dimensional plodder? The fight with Hatton may have given us our answer. 12 one-sided rounds confirmed suspicions amongst the experts that this was again, superb matchmaking.
Then came what the boxing public wanted, A Test. Up and coming Kelson Pinto had been talked about for over a year as one to watch in the 140lb weight class. He had beaten we were told the exciting Miguel Cotto (who we have all seen and been impressed by) in the amateurs and American writers were very excited about his potential and scope at world level. We in the UK had a slight knowledge of Pinto as he had been mooted to fight our own Junior Witter; last December; only to see this fight fall through after Witter sustained an injury.
Hatton himself knew this was the fight where he could really stamp his authority at 140lbs and send out a message to the main players.
Pinto pulled out a couple of days before the fight.
Dennis Pederson a previous lightweight stepped to save a show and put up admirable resistance, before being stopped in the sixth round. Pederson saved the show for the Hatton team and his promoters who had again sold out the MEN Arena in Manchester.
Allegedly Junior Witter upon hearing that Pinto was out of the fight declared himself available to fight Hatton. This was rejected to the groans of most British fans.
Junior Witter has been more of an enigma. His past has not been as extensively covered by the media, as say Ricky Hatton’s. So Witter is not as well known by non-hardcore fans.
He first came to my attention when he beat the previously highly rated Jan Bergman in 1998. Bergman had been in with Kostya Tszyu and went onto knock Zab Judah over before ultimately being stopped. Witter beat Bergman on points over six rounds. Incidentally, Ricky Hatton appeared on the same show that night in his fifth pro outing.
However, Witter’s main claim to fame was fighting Zab Judah the WBO 140lb champion on seven days notice in June 2000. It was on the Tyson versus Savarese bill in Glasgow, Scotland. Witter came across as loud and brash at the press conference; telling Judah he would shock him.
The fight was quite unforgettable, for all the wrong reasons. Witter made a good impression in the first round, boxing on the back foot quite beautifully. Then reverse gear was selected for the remainder of the fight. Judah won comfortably and the US audience was not overjoyed at the British fighters negative attitude in the ring.
Could this performance have been explained by having only seven days notice for a WBO title shot? Maybe, but this performance maybe one reason that Junior Witter does not have a higher profile.
Undeterred Witter has proceeded to have 13 unbeaten contests, all finished early.
Against whom you may ask? To the uninformed not many recognisable names jump out at you, except maybe Giuseppe Lauri who is a common opponent for both Witter and Hatton, and maybe Steve Conway (another lighter man fighting at the wrong weight)
The biggest thing that has happened in most fans’ minds though is the name that does not appear on Witter’s resume, that of Kelson Pinto. Yes the same Pinto that did not get on his flight to Manchester 6 weeks ago.
Witter himself was scheduled to fight Pinto on the Hatton v Tackie card last December, only to pull out due to a hand injury.
Three times Witter has appeared on the under-card, as support to a Ricky Hatton headlined show in Manchester.
Maybe boxing fans were hoping for a potential Hatton versus Witter contest at some later date. It was certainly alluded to. Both men happy to talk about a potential match up. Especially Witter who seemed to have in his contract, a clause to goad Hatton at each and every opportunity.
So what next?
I feel both men have stagnated somewhat since my “most note-able contests” Witter more so, because it is basically four years since the Judah experience.
Hatton since the Magee fight has still not fought a top ten fighter, although he has fought two “names” Phillips (too old) and Tackie (sadly overrated and not top tier).
I would ask people to look at Eamonn Magee since he fought Hatton. OK he hasn’t been the most active of fighters, but has gone to Germany to fight Oktay Urkal, for the European title. Again inactivity may have proved decisive, as Magee was just outworked to lose, a close decision although flooring the champion during the contest. If he had won who knows he may have been the man fighting Vivian Harris. (Although would he have been put in with for a WBA champion over the networks marquee fighter Hatton?)
I do feel that Hatton or Witter would have gained much more by pursuing this type of contest. Not only a bona-fide world ranking; but also much kudos amongst boxing aficionados throughout Britain, Europe and the US.
Also theses sort fights are surely “make-able”?
Hatton has the fan base to sell out the MEN arena at any time and against anybody. Witter sadly cannot do so.
It is a shame that this is the case because although Witter does rub people up the wrong way, he is a nice guy trying to play a bad guy. He does however possess oodles of personality, which comes across every time he is on the screen being interviewed The Judah conference being a case in point.
Has Witter’s personality been an untapped resource? In my opinion, yes it has. He could have been marketed very easily as the bad guy versus Hatton; and an opportunity has been lost, maybe for good.
Where do our 140lb’ers rate against the up and comers from the other side of the Atlantic? - If we are talking Pinto and Cotto, then that is a difficult question to answer. However we should attempt to.
Cotto is 19-0-0 with 16 KO’s. A fighter with no apparent weaknesses and is being moved up through the ranks quickly.
Cotto is 23 years old.
This year (his third as a pro) Cotto is scheduled to fight Lovemore N’Dou in Las Vegas. Although Puerto Rican, Cotto has been blooded in the US primarily, a fight at the MGM Grand will pose no fears for him. Cotto has fought in Vegas several times in his short career.
He is destined for the very top say the respected American press.
And who are we to doubt them?
Pinto is proving more difficult to gage. 20 and “0” with 18 stoppages. Again well respected by the American press, his major claim to fame is beating Cotto in the amateur ranks.
However his stock has been decreased due to the Hatton fiasco in March/April this year.
Hopefully we will see Pinto in action this year so we can make a more informed opinion of his potential, and his overall ability.
I used the word enigma earlier…I would use it again to describe Francisco Bojado. Along with Cotto, this is a fighter who really excites me, although his future may ultimately lie at Welterweight.
Watch this guy (blimey, I sound like Barry McGuigan), if he keeps his feet on the ground and stays dedicated, he may upset someone, sometime soon.
Where do these young guys rank versus Hatton and Witter? Well they do rank with them at least, because they are fighting stateside for one and are being moved very fast. Cotto is ranked highly already and fighting another “name opponent” next month. Then look for a bona-fide title shot in his 21st outing. Not bad eh? His next 2-3 fights will tell us exactly how confident his handlers are of Miguel Cotto.
That is Very Confident.
They are both younger than Hatton and Witter.
They may have more hunger than Hatton and Witter.
Would they fight Hatton or Witter? It seems Pinto may not just yet. I would expect Cotto to be on the next flight over if asked.
Hatton and Witter need to do something and something quick, to get to the very top they need to stop messing around.
They both talk about being “the best”. That involves beating the best.
Otherwise they should just fight each other and make a lot of money between them. There are enough of us British fans who will pay good money to see this contest.
June 5th anyone?
When Cotto gets his world titles (and it really is when), I can’t really see him getting dethroned by either of our men.
Why? Eamonn Magee (I keep coming back to him) once said of Ricky Hatton, that “he beats old men and blown up lightweights”. He would probably have said the same of Witter with the word “unknown” sandwiched somewhere in there.
These old men and blown up lightweights are no credentials to get in the ring with a bona=fide worlds champion who has paid his dues and polished his skills against the best.
How much longer before Hatton’s propensity to cut rears it’s ugly head again, and renders his world aspirations redundant?
How long before Witter’s reflexes slow and curtail what should have been a high profile career?
If Hatton and Witter were to meet (hoping), who do I think would win? I think my answer has been well documented before. The Hitter has the style to do very well against Hatton, and I am in the minority who think he would beat “The Hitman” either by short or longer distance.
Good luck to Richard Hatton and Junior Witter in their respective quests. I hope they do succeed. They need to hurry though.
I am prepared to be shot down in flames by all you guys
Si
