BoxRec

Boxing's biggest starts Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko are all coming to the end of their long and distinguished careers. So forget about them for a moment and think two-three years down the line.

I'm starting to think that I'd like to see the UFC open a boxing arm and set themselves up as the top dogs of global boxing, the place where most, if not all, boxers set their sights on getting a contract. If not the UFC a company that looks, acts, and works like the UFC.

What are your thoughts on this (please don't go off on one about wrestling being gay etc... we've heard it all before), in terms of the way they operate, the way they promote, the way they will cut fighters who aren't exciting, the way their weight divisions are structured, etc..?

They need to work on their own promotions first. The Manchester show is only half sold due to ridiculous ticket prices.

mickey1975 wrote:They need to work on their own promotions first. The Manchester show is only half sold due to ridiculous ticket prices.

Mickey, that's a misleading statement on a number of levels not least that you fail to point out that the depth of the UFC roster and cards will enable the Manchester show to go on despite the fact the main domestic attraction was withdrawn due to a detached retina. Consider a similar situation in boxing only a few weeks ago when the whole card had to be called off.

Aden wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:They need to work on their own promotions first. The Manchester show is only half sold due to ridiculous ticket prices.

Mickey, that's a misleading statement on a number of levels not least that you fail to point out that the depth of the UFC roster and cards will enable the Manchester show to go on despite the fact the main domestic attraction was withdrawn due to a detached retina. Consider a similar situation in boxing only a few weeks ago when the whole card had to be called off.

Not at all. It was really struggling even with Bisping on, and I am told by my UFC loving friends who have bought tickets that the replacement is a much better fight. They are over the moon. Its the prices. They are obscene and he way they went about selling them was completely out of order. The Fight Club members(who pay for the privilege) weren't given access to any of the cheapest seats(£80+) and got given the crappest seats first when pre-ordering.

As I said, your post is misleading for a number of reasons. Live gate is not what they're primarily about. It's a company focussed on global TV and online exposure. Because of the 'ground game' MMA is a better watch on TV than at the venue. That said, if they've made mistakes, they'll learn from them. They've shown they can do that and they're not afraid to admit it when they do.

Aden wrote:As I said, your post is misleading for a number of reasons. Live gate is not what they're primarily about. It's a company focussed on global TV and online exposure. Because of the 'ground game' MMA is a better watch on TV than at the venue. That said, if they've made mistakes, they'll learn from them. They've shown they can do that and they're not afraid to admit it when they do.

Well, I know they were selling out all over Britain four times a year a few years ago, and prices were similar to your average Arena Boxing show, now they come back once a year, treble the prices and don't sell out. Hopefully, they will learn.... Anyone thinking of going to this, hang on, and you will save a fortune.

May become bigger in America, but they have no chance of getting the fans interest in the UK with the pathetic card they put on. Need to bring one of their marquee fighters here to gather any more interest.

For me, the main reason UFC is good for MMA is that it has (virtually) all the elite fighters under their brand. This means that the best fighters consistently fight each other, there's clarity over who's the best, the title means something, the sport is easier to market and sell to fans/TV networks.

I'm not sure this will be possible under the current structures boxing has. The landscape is so fragmented, both in terms of promoters and championships, that it would be very difficult for a company to come in and take over. Signing all the fighters, for example, would be nigh-on impossible.

I'd say the only way you could get boxing to have a similar situation to MMA/UFC, i.e. all elite fighters under the same brand, would be if it was led by the boxers themselves. For example, them rebelling from promotional companies and setting up their own company/union.

Not saying this is likely any time soon - but in my view it's the only way it could happen.

@Mickey1975 Fair enough, mate. We can look at the numbers at that promotion after it's taken place. Let's try not to get too parochial or in the weeds though and instead look at the overall picture/concept and how well it's done since Zuffa took over 12/13 years ago and really built the product.

Aden wrote:@Mickey1975 Fair enough, mate. We can look at the numbers at that promotion after it's taken place. Let's try not to get too parochial or in the weeds though and instead look at the overall picture/concept and how well it's done since Zuffa took over 12/13 years ago and really built the product.

Im not ranting as an anti-UFC boxing fan. A few of my friends are big fans and, as a casual observer, it seems to me they have gone backwards in the UK quite a lot in the last few years. As I said, they were buzzing with the replacement bout for Bisping, though.

Jack B wrote:For me, the main reason UFC is good for MMA is that it has (virtually) all the elite fighters under their brand. This means that the best fighters consistently fight each other, there's clarity over who's the best, the title means something, the sport is easier to market and sell to fans/TV networks.

I'm not sure this will be possible under the current structures boxing has. The landscape is so fragmented, both in terms of promoters and championships, that it would be very difficult for a company to come in and take over. Signing all the fighters, for example, would be nigh-on impossible.

Jack, the current structure boxing has and the fragmentation you talk about is precisely why I am starting to think I would like the UFC (or a mirror) to get involved.

The UFC brand is bigger than any individual fighter(s), to the extent it doesn't matter if their roster comprise the best fighters in the world or it doesn't. The UFC champions are the fighters who the overwhelming majority of the viewing public see as being the best MMA fighters in the world and because of the amazing promotion, they are the fighters that people want to watch. The knock on effect is that any fighters who are good enough to compete/beat the existing UFC roster have to go there, or try to go there, if they want to prove themselves and generate the greatest earning potential.

Do you get what I mean?

if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now, I doubt any1 in ufc could generate money like Floyd

look at the massive bids for the povetkin fight, its been trendy to run down and write off boxing for years now but the truth is its still does big business

boxing fans just like to be hard on the sport that's all, they like to think "joe public" knows nothing and its not the sport it once was like politics haven't always existed, but when there's a big fight it does more business and garners more attention than any ufc bout

I remember hearing how boxing was going to be finished when mike tyson retired

The sad thing is boxing would be an absolutely incredible exciting sport that would be streaks ahead of UFC if it followed the UFC model. Instead it is run by self serving corrupt organisations and promoters.

Think of all the fights that were talked about over the last few years that weren't made but would have had to happen if ordered by an organisation like the UFC. UFC like monthly events would be stacked cards that would draw huge revenue in terms of PPV sales and the public would know who the best really was as nobody could avoid each other.

Pretty much like how the sport should be but it is a real shame that is an unreachable utopia.

doctorboxing wrote:The sad thing is boxing would be an absolutely incredible exciting sport that would be streaks ahead of UFC if it followed the UFC model. Instead it is run by self serving corrupt organisations and promoters.

Think of all the fights that were talked about over the last few years that weren't made but would have had to happen if ordered by an organisation like the UFC. UFC like monthly events would be stacked cards that would draw huge revenue in terms of PPV sales and the public would know who the best really was as nobody could avoid each other.

Pretty much like how the sport should be but it is a real shame that is an unreachable utopia.

I'm not sure it is unreachable. You're definitely looking at it how I'm looking at it though.

Boxing is a great sport but it could be light years ahead of where it is. People saying "Well Floyd earns more than UFC fighters" are being myopic.

also, I think we go overboard with this whole "the best don't fight each other" thing cos domestically we are in a pickle

the klits have fought every1

floyds just fought canelo

we had the super 6

the little guys face each other like donaire

domestically our top two heavys are facing off

theres a lot to celebrate but boxing fans love to moan

Aden wrote:

doctorboxing wrote:The sad thing is boxing would be an absolutely incredible exciting sport that would be streaks ahead of UFC if it followed the UFC model. Instead it is run by self serving corrupt organisations and promoters.

Think of all the fights that were talked about over the last few years that weren't made but would have had to happen if ordered by an organisation like the UFC. UFC like monthly events would be stacked cards that would draw huge revenue in terms of PPV sales and the public would know who the best really was as nobody could avoid each other.

Pretty much like how the sport should be but it is a real shame that is an unreachable utopia.

I'm not sure it is unreachable. You're definitely looking at it how I'm looking at it though.

Boxing is a great sport but it could be light years ahead of where it is. People saying "Well Floyd earns more than UFC fighters" are being myopic.

u can argue its not just floyd tho, its loads of boxers, its a bigger business

Steve, I'm not comparing the businesses like that. I'm not saying MMA is more popular than boxing, or a bigger market than boxing. I'm saying that, in my view, I am starting to think that if boxing was run by, or in a similar fashion to how Zuffa run the UFC, it would increase the popularity of the sport exponentially.

Aden wrote:Steve, I'm not comparing the businesses like that. I'm not saying MMA is more popular than boxing, or a bigger market than boxing. I'm saying that, in my view, I am starting to think that if boxing was run by, or in a similar fashion to how Zuffa run the UFC, it would increase the popularity of the sport exponentially.

yeah maybe mate, but its not doing badly as it is tbh

Aden wrote:

Jack B wrote:For me, the main reason UFC is good for MMA is that it has (virtually) all the elite fighters under their brand. This means that the best fighters consistently fight each other, there's clarity over who's the best, the title means something, the sport is easier to market and sell to fans/TV networks.

I'm not sure this will be possible under the current structures boxing has. The landscape is so fragmented, both in terms of promoters and championships, that it would be very difficult for a company to come in and take over. Signing all the fighters, for example, would be nigh-on impossible.

Jack, the current structure boxing has and the fragmentation you talk about is precisely why I am starting to think I would like the UFC (or a mirror) to get involved.

The UFC brand is bigger than any individual fighter(s), to the extent it doesn't matter if their roster comprise the best fighters in the world or it doesn't. The UFC champions are the fighters who the overwhelming majority of the viewing public see as being the best MMA fighters in the world and because of the amazing promotion, they are the fighters that people want to watch. The knock on effect is that any fighters who are good enough to compete/beat the existing UFC roster have to go there, or try to go there, if they want to prove themselves and generate the greatest earning potential.

Do you get what I mean?

I completely understand what you mean - I just don't think it could plausibly happen in that form. There are too many large, powerful promotional companies in boxing - it would be impossible for them to just be taken over. Could there really be a 'brand' that could come in, sign all the fighters from Golden Boy, Top Rank, Matchroom, Sauerland etc? I don't think so. What is a new company going to do that is so much better that every single elite fighter on the planet is suddenly going to jump ship and sign for them?

UFC worked because MMA was such a tiny sport, there was no real power-brokers involved. It was essentially a blank canvas. And because UFC were the first to invest/improve/grow, they skyrocketed. Great business model, great for the growth of the sport, but couldn't work in boxing at this point.

As I said, in my view the only way it could plausibly happen in boxing (and it would take decades) is if it was boxer led, i.e. a fighter's union was set up, all the fighters bought into it, and the association took control of fights. A bit like the ATP run the show in tennis, or the PGA in golf, to give you a couple of examples.

I am a true boxing fan I love it but hate the politics and the money ruining it. I have watched UFC it is entertaining but i like boxing a lot more. The fact that there was 4 world champions per divions but now moved to like 8 is with the stupid super champion, silver belts, diamond, interim all shit. I think the WBA should be scrap. UFC has one 1 world champion. so the best have to fight the best, i hate what boxing has become.

Im not a ufc fan in the slightest but you cant deny that their business model is superb. They sell the UFC game on the playstation, they sell ufc branded gloves, t-shirts etc. there is money coming in from all angles into the 'ufc business'.

No matter how it rolls out over the years tho i can never see ufc being bigger than boxing. In my opinion, the big boxing events will always be bigger than the big ufc events. Not got any facts or figures to support that. Just opinion!

When you look at mma Aden it's only ufc & was pride ?? Bought out right???

Look at the big picture of the sports compared. There are loads of mma bodies & they do rubbish compared to boxing promotions ufc is basically Vegas & that's the only organization that can challenge boxing but in the whole they fail misrably.

I thought from the success of say prize fighter that maybe somthing similar could of been produced in terms of a longer based tournament with people sighned up & a big pot at the end for winners & runners up.

Could 5 minute rounds work in boxing would it make it less nip & tuck & more open or would it be mass clinches?scoring would be fun ha!!

Boxing could do with more changes to make it safer & more exiting knowbody talks of the 15 rd days now unless to express how fit they feel after 12!

Ultimate Boxer Championship!!

I think some people are still missing my point. I am not pitting mixed martial arts against boxing. I'm not saying boxing should change its rules (although I wouldn't be against fewer weight categories). I am not saying that there should be only one promotional company. I am looking at the way one particular mixed martial arts promotion has grown their product and become the undeniable market leader; where that promoter's product and roster of talent is so respected that their champions have become universally recognised as the best of the best within that sport (the product is so strong/popular that it doesn't actually matter whether this is true or it isn't). How that product has effectively inspired a generation to take up their sport.

hurlock wrote:When you look at mma Aden it's only ufc & was pride ?? Bought out right???

Look at the big picture of the sports compared. There are loads of mma bodies & they do rubbish compared to boxing promotions ufc is basically Vegas & that's the only organization that can challenge boxing but in the whole they fail misrably.

I thought from the success of say prize fighter that maybe somthing similar could of been produced in terms of a longer based tournament with people sighned up & a big pot at the end for winners & runners up.

Could 5 minute rounds work in boxing would it make it less nip & tuck & more open or would it be mass clinches?scoring would be fun ha!!

Boxing could do with more changes to make it safer & more exiting knowbody talks of the 15 rd days now unless to express how fit they feel after 12!

Ultimate Boxer Championship!!

The UFC fails miserably?! Where did you come up with that nonsense?

On the 'fighter's union' thing...

In my view fighters should get the following option "You can fight for this much money, when we tell you, where we tell you, against who we tell you, for how many scheduled rounds we tell you, at what weight we tell you, or you can go elsewhere; and if when you do fight you don't fight in such a way that our fans are satisfied, we'll have to let you go."

The above is pretty much what the UFC offer. If you play by their rules they'll look after you and you'll do alright, if you don't, they'll show you the door. The result? Regular, high quality, well-matched, exciting cards and fighters who do as they're told.