BoxRec

Boxings Evander Holyfield, his all time legacy. ------


How do you see Evander ranking?


Somewhere in the top 20?


Top 15?



Or, better?



Why?

Heavyweight I have him 4, he should be top 10
Cruiserweight he's a definitive #1
All time: somewhere from 30-50 sounds right to me.

One of the greatest warriors with a big heart. Besides the great Joe Frazier, there are few that I can tell or question their heart. I could count them in one hand: Carmen Basilio, Holyfield and Frazier.

I have him rated at #7 at HW.
I have him rated #1 at Cruiser
and have him rated at around #37 pound per pound all time

elmersalsa wrote:One of the greatest warriors with a big heart. Besides the great Joe Frazier, there are few that I can tell or question their heart. I could count them in one hand: Carmen Basilio, Holyfield and Frazier.

I have him rated at #7 at HW.
I have him rated #1 at Cruiser
and have him rated at around #37 pound per pound all time

Sounds about right to me.

Top ten heavyweight.
best cruiserweight (champion) ever

I'd put him somewhere around 8th all time at HW.

I can't see who I could even consider putting above him at Cruiser. I mean I'm a big fan of(Guillermo) Jones, Jirov and Gomez, but they belong well below him. Toney, fantastic fighter, of course, but was hardly even there so he wouldn't really rank significantly. Who's left? Nelson? De Leon? Qawi? Holyfield towers over that division.

Altogether, somewhere around the 50 mark I suppose? A hell of a legacy.

Yep Cruiserweight is one of the few weight classes where the "Who's the best of the weight class" discussion isn't even debatable.

I followed Holyfield pretty closely from just after the olympics and didn't think too much of him until he beat Qawi. Then it occurred that we may actually have a live one at cruiserweight and about time. He was streets ahead of all of them and had not s single problem at 190 whilst cleaning out the division. Then when he went to HW the muscle definition got me wondering how he did it, he looked like a bodybuilder. I know he had numerous coaches for all sorts of stuff, including a ballet instructor to keep him as agile as possible as he became bulkier but there was something about his build that didn't look right. His body was too big for his head for a start. The fact he went bald pretty quickly didn't help things much either

His legacy for me anyway, is that he may have been partaking in drugs to compete with the big boys, and that he fought waaay too long

bollox wrote:I followed Holyfield pretty closely from just after the olympics and didn't think too much of him until he beat Qawi. Then it occurred that we may actually have a live one at cruiserweight and about time. He was streets ahead of all of them and had not s single problem at 190 whilst cleaning out the division. Then when he went to HW the muscle definition got me wondering how he did it, he looked like a bodybuilder. I know he had numerous coaches for all sorts of stuff, including a ballet instructor to keep him as agile as possible as he became bulkier but there was something about his build that didn't look right. His body was too big for his head for a start. The fact he went bald pretty quickly didn't help things much either

His legacy for me anyway, is that he may have been partaking in drugs to compete with the big boys, and that he fought waaay too long

I'd suggest going bald yourself for a much needed lobotomy.

It's been said before, but he's the greatest CW ever bar none & he's a top 10 HW for sure.

I do sometimes struggle to rank him, but what I can say with certainty is that the only HWs I would comfortably put ahead of him are Ali, Louis, Foreman, Lewis & Holmes.

With the other ATGs, it becomes a bit more difficult for me.

He beat the old pro’s on the way up. His size was an issue after the Cooper fight. Many people thought he’d eventually get KO’d when peak HWs found the target. Cooper and Tyson’s similar stature meant that most people (including me) gave him little chance against Tyson.

The drum beating started but I just expected Holyfield to last a little longer than Spinks before the reality of him being a CW hit home.

He got the title against big fat Buster. Looked less than inspiring in beating the geriatrics Foreman and Holmes… Then there was the Cooper fight as mentioned.

He loses to Bowe and that was it for me… Evander was a guy who could have been a p4p great but was swimming with the big boys for the money and glory. We’d never know how good he was because he fought at such a disadvantage.

Then he wins the rematch with Bowe. And I was very impressed.

Then he loses the title to Moorer and it seemed like age finally took over because Moorer was good but not in that league.

Then the third fight with Bowe. Scores a great KD but gets stopped. Again…career over…just living on borrowed time.

Lamb to the slaughter against Tyson. Remember Cooper? Just been stopped for the first time against Bowe. Tyson back…naturally bigger and with a point to prove…

Holyfield wiped the floor with him and rung him out in the bucket.

Put the record straight against Moorer…

Lost to Lewis but put in a brave performance… I think it was close but I thought it was clear… Not much in it but the rounds seemed easy to score. But I always thought that probably Holy would have had the edge in a prime for prime match up.

In a way his inconsistency helped him because I’d write him off only to be proved wrong.

Amazing that every time he did this there was always some excuse… Bowe was not focused…Tyson was a shell…etc…

He's undisputedly #1 at cruiserweight, but I think Holyfield's inconsistency makes him hard to rate at heavyweight. Generally I have him just outside the top 10.

jezzamundo wrote:He's undisputedly #1 at cruiserweight, but I think Holyfield's inconsistency makes him hard to rate at heavyweight. Generally I have him just outside the top 10.

That is exactly my problem with Holyfield too.

He consistently fought the best guys out there. Losses come with that. It's not like he was losing to anybody that wasn't highly ranked until he was way far gone. Bowe x2, Moorer & Lennox x2 is far from shameful and you have to rate his second loss to Lewis as a resume positive.

When you couple that with wins over Bowe, Tyson x2, Moorer, Foreman, Dokes, Douglas, Mercer, Ruiz, Rahman & even Valuev you're looking at a top 10 guy.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He consistently fought the best guys out there. Losses come with that. It's not like he was losing to anybody that wasn't highly ranked until he was way far gone. Bowe x2, Moorer & Lennox x2 is far from shameful and you have to rate his second loss to Lewis as a resume positive.

When you couple that with wins over Bowe, Tyson x2, Moorer, Foreman, Dokes, Douglas, Mercer, Ruiz, Rahman & even Valuev you're looking at a top 10 guy.

Excellent points.

Put like this, it's hard to argue against him being a top 10 HW.

#12 HW
#1 CW
#53 P4P

Top 10 HW
The best CW
Top 100 All Time.

elmersalsa wrote:One of the greatest warriors with a big heart. Besides the great Joe Frazier, there are few that I can tell or question their heart. I could count them in one hand: Carmen Basilio, Holyfield and Frazier.

I have him rated at #7 at HW.
I have him rated #1 at Cruiser
and have him rated at around #37 pound per pound all time

(one of the posts, that make me feel: "i don't
have to post in this thread, everything's said.")

just one thing. for some fighters i have this
kind of "defining" moment imprinted in my
brain. for frazier it is the left hook that took
ali down. for ali it is the punch he held back
when foreman went down. for tyson it is the
ear bite, for johnson it is the way he held his
hands above his face when he was counted
out. for vitali it is the moment when he got up
from his chair in the corner in anger, surprise
and disbelief that the bout with lewis was
stopped.

for holyfield it is the moment of truth five
seconds into the bout with tyson, when he
tumbled to the ropes in a totally weird way.
and when, a split second later, he came out
to make the stance of his life.

still one of my favorite moments in boxing.

sorry, me again. holyfield's chin needs to be
mentioned too. ali is still the best absorber
of all time for m, but holy is not far off.

I said it earlier. There is not a fighter dead or alive that had a bigger heart than Holy. Maybe Frazier or Basilio is up there with him when heart and determination is concerned. They just took it to another level.

On the p4p sense he is up there with alot of the ATG's, but not in the same class as someone like Ezzard Charles or Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson.

He is certainly the greatest Cruiserweight of all time. There hasnt been a champion before or after him that I could honestly favor beating Holyfield or having anything better than a 40% chance.

As a heavyweight, I call him a 5x champion (as he was blatantly robbed against Valuev). That's a record I dont think we will see be surpassed, let alone matched in another thirty-forty years. I think in head to head match up's, the prime Holyfield could have beaten the majority of belt holders, or won the most in a series with them.

I meet alot of ignorant fans who point out Holyfield's win/loss ratio over the passed few years and they say "He's destroying his legacy", and I look at them as if they are crazy. I tell them "His legacy has already been established." What we see now is a man like so many warriors who we have loved and lived in the moment with, who carry on for too long for reasons that sound strange and difficult for us to relate with, or for reasons we all to well understand--- people dont like to see their heroes be like themselves. They want them on a pedastel and talk about them as if they are legends, or something from mythology, rather than flesh and bone men and women.

I don't know how many boxers, wrestlers, etc. I have encountered in my life whose eyes are always looking for someone to remember and to notice them, but often times are dismissed and passed by. For Holyfield, I think it's a matter of alot of things as to why he continues to hint at comebacks, and we cry a little on the inside. But no, his legacy is established as one of the all-time greats. One thing about Evander is he was never one to count out--- he defied all the experts time and again, defeating monsters like Foreman and Tyson, beating wizards like Holmes and digging deep to defeat immovable objects like Bowe.

Other than Rocky Marciano, I've never seen another heavyweight have such rejuvenating powers as did Evander have. He would throw punches in bunches, take a three second break, and was back into full action. He could absorb so much punishment--- then three seconds later be as strong as he was in the beginning. He fought in close, box at range, out slug-out box, etc. he could do almost everything.

I have him among the top 10. But, its really splitting hairs when you ask is he a top five heavyweight or could he have beaten the top five guys.