BoxRec

Curious...

He is not even in my top 100 p4p all time list. The two fights with the great Professor Azumah Nelson hurt him. Especially, the second fight.

elmersalsa wrote:He is not even in my top 100 p4p all time list. The two fights with the great Professor Azumah Nelson hurt him. Especially, the second fight.

Even the first one where he clearly beat him?

p4p1 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:He is not even in my top 100 p4p all time list. The two fights with the great Professor Azumah Nelson hurt him. Especially, the second fight.

Even the first one where he clearly beat him?

He won the first fight no doubt, but he lost the second fight brutally by KO in front of his hometown fans that took the wind out of the first fight, like saying, he was not better than his foe in a real fight. Nelson came better prepared this time and it showed like it was a fluke the first time around.

elmersalsa wrote:

p4p1 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:He is not even in my top 100 p4p all time list. The two fights with the great Professor Azumah Nelson hurt him. Especially, the second fight.

Even the first one where he clearly beat him?

He won the first fight no doubt, but he lost the second fight brutally by KO in front of his hometown fans that took the wind out of the first fight, like saying, he was not better than his foe in a real fight. Nelson came better prepared this time and it showed like it was a fluke the first time around.

Plus Nelson was supposedly sick in that first bout. I know fighters always give excuses like that, but it's kinda hard not to believe the guy when he dominates the dude in a rematch.

Fenech claims really bad asthma in the second fight also.

But yeah, was wondering if anyone had him in their top 100. Guess not

I don't know but he could easily make a p4p 1980s top 10. Not a definite but certainly at home there.

There are many great and outstanding fighters that do not make my top or anybody's 100 p4p lists. It just a matter of opinion.

Some fighters that I left out in my personal top 100 p4p:
Ken Buchanan, Ismael Laguna, Nino Benvenutti, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Jim Driscoll, Owen Moran, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad, Jeff Fenech, Harold Johnson, Jimmy Bivins, Pete "Kid" Herman, James J. Jeffries, James J. Corbett, Battling Battalino, Battling Nelson, oooofffff.....Lots of them..

elmersalsa wrote:There are many great and outstanding fighters that do not make my top or anybody's 100 p4p lists. It just a matter of opinion.

Some fighters that I left out in my personal top 100 p4p:
Ken Buchanan, Ismael Laguna, Nino Benvenutti, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Jim Driscoll, Owen Moran, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad, Jeff Fenech, Harold Johnson, Jimmy Bivins, Pete "Kid" Herman, James J. Jeffries, James J. Corbett, Battling Battalino, Battling Nelson, oooofffff.....Lots of them..

Oscar? Have you underestimated him? As for Fenech he should have stayed at feather and he may well b in your top 50

Fenech deserves to be in the top 100 IMO. Nobody at 122 except Gomez would have had much chance and yep, he probably should have stayed at featherweight. And unified 122 and 126 which wouldn't have been a problem (the only possible problem at the time would have been Esparragosa at 126 but he would have overwhelmed him in the later rounds or beaten him by UD). By the time he went to feather his abnormally brittle hands were regularly causing him major problems

Grant wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:There are many great and outstanding fighters that do not make my top or anybody's 100 p4p lists. It just a matter of opinion.

Some fighters that I left out in my personal top 100 p4p:
Ken Buchanan, Ismael Laguna, Nino Benvenutti, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Jim Driscoll, Owen Moran, Nicolino Locche, Antonio Cervantes, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad, Jeff Fenech, Harold Johnson, Jimmy Bivins, Pete "Kid" Herman, James J. Jeffries, James J. Corbett, Battling Battalino, Battling Nelson, oooofffff.....Lots of them..

Oscar? Have you underestimated him? As for Fenech he should have stayed at feather and he may well b in your top 50

Oscar De La Hoya is NOT a great fighter.

Lol

Champion in sixth divisions not a great fighterO:-)

Vladimir5555 wrote:Lol

Champion in sixth divisions not a great fighterO:-)

six manufactured divisions. Tell me what division he dominated? I don't count his WBO wins, so that makes them 4. Plus, he lost to Felix Sturm at middleweight for the WBO title, in which the judge$$$$ gave him the title.

Jeff moved up and got a draw with Azumah Nelson. One of the best performances of the decade.

ODLH beat many good boxers: JCC(2 times),Whitaker,Quartey,Mayorga,Camacho,Vargas,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Gatti,Yory Boy Campas,Rafael Ruelas,Leija,Oba Carr,Castillejo,Genaro Hernandes,Darryl Tyson,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Wilfredo Rivera,David Kamau.

In my opinion he beat Floyd and Tito and won second fight against Mosley.

Oscar a Great fighter,IMO.

Vladimir5555 wrote:ODLH beat many good boxers: JCC(2 times),Whitaker,Quartey,Mayorga,Camacho,Vargas,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Gatti,Yory Boy Campas,Rafael Ruelas,Leija,Oba Carr,Castillejo,Genaro Hernandes,Darryl Tyson,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Wilfredo Rivera,David Kamau.

In my opinion he beat Floyd and Tito and won second fight against Mosley.

Oscar a Great fighter,IMO.

I thought he lost 116-112 to Floyd and I thought Mosley edged the rematch albeit in a closely contested fight. I do agree he was a great fighter though.

Ezzard wrote:Jeff moved up and got a draw with Azumah Nelson. One of the best performances of the decade.

Fenech started his pro career at flyweight so it's not a bad effort to be mixing it with someone such as Nelson

I was in a pub with some mates watching the first fight. When the decision was announced there were a few seconds of stunned silence then the place erupted in boos and a lot of swearing at the tv. Then we went on a pub crawl and somehow ended up in a lesbian dominated pub where one of my mates almost got into a fistfight over a pool table. With a lesbian My money would have been on the lesbian, she looked like Jorge Paez

Plus Nelson was supposedly sick in that first bout. I know fighters always give excuses like that, but it's kinda hard not to believe the guy when he dominates the dude in a rematch.[/quote]

Nelson had malaria in the first fight; that's not just sick, it is insane that he even considered boxing.

Vladimir5555 wrote:ODLH beat many good boxers: JCC(2 times),Whitaker,Quartey,Mayorga,Camacho,Vargas,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Gatti,Yory Boy Campas,Rafael Ruelas,Leija,Oba Carr,Castillejo,Genaro Hernandes,Darryl Tyson,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Wilfredo Rivera,David Kamau.

In my opinion he beat Floyd and Tito and won second fight against Mosley.

Oscar a Great fighter,IMO.

Sorry, good wins, but he was not good enough to put him in the top 100 p4p greats. He is one of the best of the last 50 years, though.

elmersalsa wrote:

Vladimir5555 wrote:ODLH beat many good boxers: JCC(2 times),Whitaker,Quartey,Mayorga,Camacho,Vargas,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Gatti,Yory Boy Campas,Rafael Ruelas,Leija,Oba Carr,Castillejo,Genaro Hernandes,Darryl Tyson,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Wilfredo Rivera,David Kamau.

In my opinion he beat Floyd and Tito and won second fight against Mosley.

Oscar a Great fighter,IMO.

Sorry, good wins, but he was not good enough to put him in the top 100 p4p greats. He is one of the best of the last 50 years, though.

Then the ATG list must be packed solid with fighters that none of us have really only rarely ever seen box, just read about; that doesn't seem right.

palooka wrote:Plus Nelson was supposedly sick in that first bout. I know fighters always give excuses like that, but it's kinda hard not to believe the guy when he dominates the dude in a rematch.

Nelson had malaria in the first fight; that's not just sick, it is insane that he even considered boxing.[/quote]

Jeff went into the rematch with busted hands on the back of what was considered to be his worst ever training camp. I love Azumah...great guy...but believe me if he had malaria he would not have been able to walk to the ring. Even so...if he was recovering it still something

Ezzard wrote:

palooka wrote:Plus Nelson was supposedly sick in that first bout. I know fighters always give excuses like that, but it's kinda hard not to believe the guy when he dominates the dude in a rematch.

Nelson had malaria in the first fight; that's not just sick, it is insane that he even considered boxing.

Jeff went into the rematch with busted hands on the back of what was considered to be his worst ever training camp. I love Azumah...great guy...but believe me if he had malaria he would not have been able to walk to the ring. Even so...if he was recovering it still something[/quote]


It's just what I remember reading after the bout and before the rematch in the magazines etc.

I think it was exaggerated. I can't think of any situation where a medical professional would pass an athlete as fit to fight if he was suffering malaria or it's after effects. Reminds me of Tyson's "I broke my back" comment. Self diagnosis at it's worst

palooka wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Vladimir5555 wrote:ODLH beat many good boxers: JCC(2 times),Whitaker,Quartey,Mayorga,Camacho,Vargas,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Gatti,Yory Boy Campas,Rafael Ruelas,Leija,Oba Carr,Castillejo,Genaro Hernandes,Darryl Tyson,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Wilfredo Rivera,David Kamau.

In my opinion he beat Floyd and Tito and won second fight against Mosley.

Oscar a Great fighter,IMO.

Sorry, good wins, but he was not good enough to put him in the top 100 p4p greats. He is one of the best of the last 50 years, though.

Then the ATG list must be packed solid with fighters that none of us have really only rarely ever seen box, just read about; that doesn't seem right.

And that is the BIG PROBLEM. We do not do enough research. I had made lots of research of every fighter on video and also by going to different web sites of intense reading about the fighters... And believe me, when you see their records and accounts of what really transpired behind those fights, you could make your own conclusions if they were really great or not.

To some people in this forum, Oscar was a great fighter, a top 100 p4p great. I do not believe that he was a top 100 great fighter. He was a boxing superstar with a gold medal to wit, plus good looks and marketing like David Beckham in football. A big attraction ppv icon. Not a TRULY great boxer.

Oscar to me, came at his own right time.