BoxRec

Posted: **02 Nov 2013, 19:17**

A prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Carlos Monzon?

What advantages (If any) would Sugar Ray Robinson have over Carlos Monzon?

What advantages (If any) would Carlos Monzon have over Sugar Ray Robinson?

What do you see happening in this fight?

How do you see this fight panning out?

Who would win?

Why?

Posted: **04 Nov 2013, 04:07**

Monzon in a close but clear decision.

Posted: **04 Nov 2013, 12:00**

The great Carlos Monzon wins by UD. He was very strong middleweight.

Posted: **05 Nov 2013, 17:34**

Best WW vs Best MW....does not work out well for history's top WW.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 06:00**

Think this might be a bit of a stinker.

Monzon's timing and counterpunching would be difficult for Ray.

In Argentina I'm certain Monzon wins. In the US it's much more a 50-50.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 06:01**

Monzon. Simply too big nd not Ray's best weight

Posted: **09 Nov 2013, 16:01**

Carlos Monzon by Ud, Rick James style, Ray would be messing with the one man he couldn't deal with at 160.

Posted: **26 May 2018, 11:15**

Monzon would have won by decision confidently. Robinson was special boxer, but Carlos was better in every way. Monzon didn't move in the subtle style of SRR, but Carlos just could be where he wanted to be, he didn't fought his opponents' fights. His jab was no less good. Robinson was fast and provided thunderous combinations, but he left oppenings for the opponents, Monzon was more methodical in the attack. Carlos would have used Ray's flaws, he would have been to much for Robinson.

Posted: **05 Jun 2018, 15:59**

I see this as a tossup. The Robinson that beat LaMotta 5 out of 6 would have beaten Monzon 3 out of 6. Robinson was fast and threw such great combinations. Monzon knew all the tricks of the trade. That Monzon had so much trouble with a an ancient Griffith makes me think Robinson had a good ancient. Would have been a great match.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 00:58**

SRR was really a Jr Middleweight who had to jump from Welter to Middle because there was no Jr Middle back then when SRR was still in his prime he was 31 years of age the time the heat beat him against Joey Maxim for the Light Heavyweight Title it was the only time in the 199 fight's he engaged in that he was stopped prime time SRR record was 132-3-2-87 Ko's so the SRR that came back at nearly 34 year's of age when PAST HIS PRIME who's record read 42-16-4 cannot come into the the debate
because THEN WE would have to bring up the 10 fighter's that had draw's with the Great Monzon now most of them 10 men would not have got a job as SRR sparring partner

so when both men are Prime Time I think the P4P King would have enough CLASS to beat a LEGEND Middleweight King in Monzon who never fought anyone the calibre of a PRIME SRR.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 08:43**

It is the Valdes fight - certainty SRR is a site better than Valdes, but Monzon (in this fictitious match-up) is five years younger, so in the end just watch the Valdes fights again, either one, we have thirty rounds of example; we not only know the outcome we pretty much can envision the fight.

Monzon UD

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 15:31**

I don't know what that a past his prime Monzon barely beating Valdes proves anything either way.
What is more telling fight are the Griffith fights. He was in his prime, Griffith wasn't. And he struggled with him a lot. And even a prime Griffith was not as good as Robinson.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 15:39**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 15:31 I don't know what that a past his prime Monzon barely beating Valdes proves anything either way.
What is more telling fight are the Griffith fights. He was in his prime, Griffith wasn't. And he struggled with him a lot. And even a prime Griffith was not as good as Robinson.

Still Monzon beat both Griffith and Valdez pretty clear all those times. And Sugar Ray lost to the guys, that had been good, but had less of a class than Monzon.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 16:42**

Both Valdes and Monzon were, at that time past their prime. I felt that Valdes physically (size wise) and as a good technician was a good comparison (as is Griffith).

I believe all of Monzon's fights look closer on the score cards than they were in the ring. He had a methodical way of dominating fights without there being enough pizzas to excite the fan (and sometimes the judges). The fights were seldom as close as they appear; I always thought the guy to be the ultimate control freak.

I always felt that Greb (that legendary guy none of us has actually seen fight) might in their first fight, be able to take Monzon as he did Tunney, but than like Tunney, Monzon would figure him out and control the rematch. But that's only a maybe.

Monzon is the only fighter who I would bet on every time; regardless of what ATG MW he is matched against. (Duran as a LW is a close second, but on any given night, Williams, Ross, McLaren, Ortiz, and Leonard all could might beat Duran, maybe.

P.S. If you believe Monzon could only beat a past-his-prime Griffith than logically you must also believe Benvenuti, in prime, would have taken Monzon. -- I grew up a rapid Benvenuti fan and even I can't bring myself to believe that.

Although I do argue that in Benvenuti-Monzon I, the 10th round is the only time I ever saw Monzon at bay; it was the only time I saw him not in control of a fight. Just one round.

P.S.S. I wonder what constitutes a 'prime' SRR - WW or MW? Late 1940s or middle 1950s?

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 17:08**

APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 I believe all of Monzon's fights look closer on the score cards than they were in the ring. He had a methodical way of dominating fights without there being enough pizzas to excite the fan (and sometimes the judges). The fights were seldom as close as they appear; I always thought the guy to be the ultimate control freak.

APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 Monzon is the only fighter who I would bet on every time; regardless of what ATG MW he is matched against.

These two points are the best in your comment, I totally agree.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 19:34**

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 17:08
APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 I believe all of Monzon's fights look closer on the score cards than they were in the ring. He had a methodical way of dominating fights without there being enough pizzas to excite the fan (and sometimes the judges). The fights were seldom as close as they appear; I always thought the guy to be the ultimate control freak.

APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 Monzon is the only fighter who I would bet on every time; regardless of what ATG MW he is matched against.
These two points are the best in your comment, I totally agree.

I was at the Licata fight......and you're right, they didn't serve pizza. However I did buy one after the fight at Ray's.

Monzon had some sort of sixth sense, he had a different sort of "speed" because he was so insanely accurate. I do believe he may qualify as the most accurate puncher in history. You'd swear when he fired he was going to miss at times....and then his opponents chin would simply end up at the end of Monzon's shotgun. It's pretty uncanny. Like a fella who was living in a universe where time had slowed down just for him. I'm not kidding here.....he may have appeared a bit slow, but the word might be "deliberate". I see him in a class all his own in this dept. And the Briscoe Wobble to me is a lot like the Ali Fall at the hands of Joe Frazier, it gives him enormous bragging rights. Not that he got hit, but in his case because he didn't fall. And in Ali's case because he got back up. Both pretty amazing moments in the sport.

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 19:51**

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 19:34
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 17:08
APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 I believe all of Monzon's fights look closer on the score cards than they were in the ring. He had a methodical way of dominating fights without there being enough pizzas to excite the fan (and sometimes the judges). The fights were seldom as close as they appear; I always thought the guy to be the ultimate control freak.

APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 Monzon is the only fighter who I would bet on every time; regardless of what ATG MW he is matched against.
These two points are the best in your comment, I totally agree.
I was at the Licata fight......and you're right, they didn't serve pizza. However I did buy one after the fight at Ray's.

oops! Sorry - I meant pizzaz!

Posted: **06 Jun 2018, 21:27**

I think the fight would go to a decision. Don't know who would win.

If Carlos fought Ray the night that Robinson fought LaMotta in 1951 (the Valentine's Day Massacre), Then Monzon would have his hands full.

Jake LaMotta had a good line after his 1951 fight with Robinson. He said "If the referee hadn't stopped the fight when he did, then Sugar Ray Robinson would have collapsed from hitting me so much."

Posted: **07 Jun 2018, 10:53**

APerno wrote: ↑06 Jun 2018, 16:42 Both Valdes and Monzon were, at that time past their prime. I felt that Valdes physically (size wise) and as a good technician was a good comparison (as is Griffith).

I believe all of Monzon's fights look closer on the score cards than they were in the ring. He had a methodical way of dominating fights without there being enough pizzas to excite the fan (and sometimes the judges). The fights were seldom as close as they appear; I always thought the guy to be the ultimate control freak.

I always felt that Greb (that legendary guy none of us has actually seen fight) might in their first fight, be able to take Monzon as he did Tunney, but than like Tunney, Monzon would figure him out and control the rematch. But that's only a maybe.

Monzon is the only fighter who I would bet on every time; regardless of what ATG MW he is matched against. (Duran as a LW is a close second, but on any given night, Williams, Ross, McLaren, Ortiz, and Leonard all could might beat Duran, maybe.

P.S. If you believe Monzon could only beat a past-his-prime Griffith than logically you must also believe Benvenuti, in prime, would have taken Monzon. -- I grew up a rapid Benvenuti fan and even I can't bring myself to believe that.

Although I do argue that in Benvenuti-Monzon I, the 10th round is the only time I ever saw Monzon at bay; it was the only time I saw him not in control of a fight. Just one round.

P.S.S. I wonder what constitutes a 'prime' SRR - WW or MW? Late 1940s or middle 1950s?

I would say Robinson 's prime was roughly from around 1945-1951. He could fight at welter or middle at the time, it didn't matter.
What a lot of people think of when they think of Robinson is his wars with Basilio and Fullmer and others when hen he pretty old.
I think Monzon would have beaten a prime Benevenuti, but it would have more competitive. Of course we are speculating on that, as we are what he would do against Robinson.
But we do know that Monzon had a lot of trouble with a 35 year old Griffith. He fought him a year earlier and had almost as much trouble. Griffith could not do anything better than Robinson, so to me it stands to reason that Monzon would have even more trouble with Robinson.

To be honest, I am not quite as high on Monzon as I used to be. I used to have him as my clear #1 middleweight. However, taking a hard look at his career, I didn't anymore. I think I used to give him more credit for beating Griffith and Benvenuti as I used to. Don't see how his wins over Valdez is more impressive than what Robinson did when he was fighting in his mid-30s.

I do agree that Robinson was flashier and that some of what Monzon did was more subtle but very effective.

BoxRec

Prime Sugar Ray Robinson vs. a prime Carlos Monzon? ------

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