BoxRec

If you look through Foreman's record prior to fighting Frazier he fought a lot of poor fighters, many with more losses than wins. So who was he best win over before his title shot?

Not many impressive names i must admit...maybe chuvalo, pires, wepner, peralta and gullick.

True.

That was one of the reasons him bouncing a peak* Joe Frazier around like a rag doll in Jamaica was seen as a shocking result.

* my opinion. Others may differ. But, remember, it's just an opinion. There is no way to prove it one way or the other. So before anyone starts acting like I have blasphemed or shat on the bible, try to remember, it's just an opinion.

Maybe the man I had the dumb luck to see Foreman fight in my first live viewing of a Foreman fight.

Peralta....... Foreman beat him...but had a hard time catching him, and could not put him away.

Giving a clinic on what Ali and Young would need to bring in future bouts.

I have to believe Team Frazier thought he would be easy pickings...

ThatOne wrote:I have to believe Team Frazier thought he would be easy pickings...

This is correct.

Which forever confounds me.

I was a college kid at the time and even I knew this was a very dangerous fight.

I was not shocked when I got the news that night.

yancey wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I have to believe Team Frazier thought he would be easy pickings...

This is correct.

Which forever confounds me.

I was a college kid at the time and even I knew this was a very dangerous fight.

I was not shocked when I got the news that night.

Seriously? You might have been the only guy worrying about Frazier that night. I think the rest of us were jaw dropped. So was Howard.

Giancarlo wrote:True.

That was one of the reasons him bouncing a peak* Joe Frazier around like a rag doll in Jamaica was seen as a shocking result.

* my opinion. Others may differ. But, remember, it's just an opinion. There is no way to prove it one way or the other. So before anyone starts acting like I have blasphemed or shat on the bible, try to remember, it's just an opinion.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but can't understand why you really believe this.

Frazier was never the same after the FOTC. I think it clearly showed in the fights against the two guys preceding Foreman.

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I have to believe Team Frazier thought he would be easy pickings...

This is correct.

Which forever confounds me.

I was a college kid at the time and even I knew this was a very dangerous fight.

I was not shocked when I got the news that night.

Seriously? You might have been the only guy worrying about Frazier that night. I think the rest of us were jaw dropped. So was Howard.

Very serious.

I figured Joe might muddle through, but Foreman's power scared the heck out of me. I was scared of Foreman going back to the '68 Olympics when he pulverized the Russian guy.

Getting briefly staggered against Stander in his preceding fight raised a red flag for me. Frazier even struggled putting away Terry Daniels.

I knew he wasn't the same anymore.

Well that's what fighting a guy like Ali could do to a fella....even a win could be a loss.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well that's what fighting a guy like Ali could do to a fella....even a win could be a loss.

Agree, the FOTC took a lot out of Frazier. Not just physically.

He should have taken Durham's advice to retire. (which was my very first thought when I got the bad news from Jamaica on the radio that night)

Il Duce wrote:George Foreman

A} Had been rankled as the #2 WBA Heavyweight since October 1971.

B} Bouts with Joe Frazier had been discussed as early as November 1971.

C} Nobody took George Foreman lightly.

D} Dick Sadler wanted Joe Frazier.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... CiJ6VfjjHw

Duce, I could be wrong, but I think Frazier definitely underestimated Foreman. He was quoted after the fight as being surprised at just how strong George turned out to me.

To my way of thinking, if you are really just hanging around for one more mega $$$ fight with Ali, why chance things against a puncher like Foreman?

Maybe he was required to face Foreman, I don't recall the details on that.

Il Duce wrote:E. Jack Burke, Sportswriter

"Joe Frazier, he don't hide, and he don't run. You don't have to look for him, as he's relentless.
His weakness, is his style."

"I give George Foreman a 1 in 5 chance of stopping Joe within 4-Rounds. If he doesn't get Joe
by the 4th Round, Joe will stop him in 6 or 7."

Ken Norton on George Foreman

"He stinks, he's got nothing but a hard jab that he misses 50% of the time. A clubbing puncher, who's
knocked out a bunch of Cab Drivers."

Is this the same Norton that was warning Durham in Jamaica that Joe had definitely lost something?

Neither Foreman or Frazier had much of a resume besides Ali. A tad overrated they were IMO

Il Duce wrote:E. Jack Burke, Sportswriter

"Joe Frazier, he don't hide, and he don't run. You don't have to look for him, as he's relentless.
His weakness, is his style."

"I give George Foreman a 1 in 5 chance of stopping Joe within 4-Rounds. If he doesn't get Joe
by the 4th Round, Joe will stop him in 6 or 7."

Ken Norton on George Foreman

"He stinks, he's got nothing but a hard jab that he misses 50% of the time. A clubbing puncher, who's
knocked out a bunch of Cab Drivers."

Did Ken Norton said those things? That seem very odd to me. He, too me, was one of the most perfect gentlemen in the sport. I got to verify that statement.

yancey wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:True.

That was one of the reasons him bouncing a peak* Joe Frazier around like a rag doll in Jamaica was seen as a shocking result.

* my opinion. Others may differ. But, remember, it's just an opinion. There is no way to prove it one way or the other. So before anyone starts acting like I have blasphemed or shat on the bible, try to remember, it's just an opinion.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but can't understand why you really believe this.

Frazier was never the same after the FOTC. I think it clearly showed in the fights against the two guys preceding Foreman.

I agree with you my brother. That Frazier in Jamaica was only SHADES of what he performed in the FOTC and before those fights.

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I have to believe Team Frazier thought he would be easy pickings...

This is correct.

Which forever confounds me.

I was a college kid at the time and even I knew this was a very dangerous fight.

I was not shocked when I got the news that night.

Seriously? You might have been the only guy worrying about Frazier that night. I think the rest of us were jaw dropped. So was Howard.

Is this How-wud Cosell???

Actually he was on record before the bout predicting that Foreman would demolish Joe.
Read all about it in his ancient book Cosell.

I though Foreman's 1970 destruction of touted Boone Kirkman was pretty impressive. Foreman was the favorite but Kirkman was expected to give George a battle. He barely showed up.

Gordon KOs wrote:Neither Foreman or Frazier had much of a resume besides Ali. A tad overrated they were IMO

Foreman didn't have any great wins before he demolished Frazier so badly. Even though he was a Gold-Medalist at the Olympics, he had a very short amateur career. He was very inexperienced when he turned pro. He took on Peralta before he had been a pro even a year. He struggled a lot. I think his management team knew he was a diamond in the rough and brought him along slowly. The strategy paid off by the time he crushed Frazier. That may have been the most impressive blowout in the history of the heavyweight division. By then he was a pretty impressive force.

There were a lot of tomato cans on the way up. However, there were some decent fighters sprinkled in as well.

Chuvalo was easily his best victory pre-Frazier.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Foreman didn't have any great wins before he demolished Frazier so badly. Even though he was a Gold-Medalist at the Olympics, he had a very short amateur career. He was very inexperienced when he turned pro. He took on Peralta before he had been a pro even a year. He struggled a lot. I think his management team knew he was a diamond in the rough and brought him along slowly. The strategy paid off by the time he crushed Frazier. That may have been the most impressive blowout in the history of the heavyweight division. By then he was a pretty impressive force.

There were a lot of tomato cans on the way up. However, there were some decent fighters sprinkled in as well.

The "most impressive blowout in the history of the heavyweight division" should feature a clean knockout.

No.