BoxRec

If they were so slow why couldn't Frazier and Norton avoid them. You contradict yourself so much. Hypocrite.

Il Duce wrote:

evrenb wrote:If they were so slow why couldn't Frazier and Norton avoid them. You contradict yourself so much. Hypocrite.

You show your 'ignorance'.

It's all about styles and defense, which both Joe Frazier and Ken Norton were lacking in.........

Below, at the N'Sele Training Center in Kinshasa, Zaire

Roy 'Tiger' Williams 'teaches' Muhammad Ali how to lean back on the ropes and ride with the big punches.

Roy Williams,
"I showed Muhammad how to lean way back on the ropes. This would take away the power of George's big swings.
I kept telling Muhammad..... 'Ride baby, just ride with the punches and let George punch himself out.'

I show my ignorance??!!!! fornicate you loser!

No spelling mistake you fornicating retard sh1t...fed up with your utter contradictory bullsh1t....honestly...what a loser!!

Saying Tiger Williams was behind the GOAT's strategy in the Rumble is like saying some corporal was behind MacArthur's strategy at Inchon.

Im absolutely fed up of this constant sh1t and lies being spouted out. Klompton is right this site is becoming a joke...you say ignore but why should the little master of crap be allowed to denigrate people like George and Ali...absolutely no respect whatsoever...

I dont need to do my research...you are full of sh1t.

Il Duce wrote:Roy 'Tiger' Williams

"It all started up at the Camp in Deer Lake, Pennsylvania. In early-August 1974."

"I kept telling Muhammad. You can't move on those 32 year-old legs against George.
You will wear yourself out. You must stay relaxed and don't get all tensed up, where
you'll burn up your 'reserve energy'. Just lean back on the Ropes, and do the Three-R's.
'Relax, Ride and Roll'. Just let Big George flail away, and punch himself out."

"But, some problems between Muhammad and myself developed. I had an opportunity
for a fight in mid-August 1974, and I wanted to take it to make $5000. But Muhammad
gave me a lot of 'static' about leaving, and said he 'needed me'. He offered me
a few more dollars to stay."

All the above is utter bullsh1t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll

So "all" these guys 'wrote' using extraneous and unnecessary 'quotes', just like you?

SamWise72 wrote:So "all" these guys 'wrote' using extraneous and unnecessary 'quotes', just like you?

No.

He just pulls them out of his arse.

I suggest he be told to stop with the 'quotes' as they are the most offensive part of his baggage.

Can you imagine classy guys like Norton & Frazier coming out with the demented crap he attributes to them?

That is what got him banned at Eastside. Not the opinions, they are mental but so what. It was attributing offensive 'quotes' to boxers.

I'd like to see Buzz tell the idiot to cut out the ridiculous 'quotes' as it demeans the people he attributes them to.

I will make an allowance for more Big Jim quotes though!

It's pretty well established that Il Duce has a penchant for fiction. I don't really see the harm in it all... What's kind of depressing is some posters believe it.

The suggestion that Ali was counseled on how to beat Big George is preposterous. It was totally improvisational. Even Angelo Dundee and Bundini Brown had no idea what was going on.

Excellent story....intriguing. I laughed I cried.

Just curious.....does it contain ANY veracity? Even just a little?

If so...what fact or set of facts does it actually conform to?

You know....facts.....the sort of stuff that really happens....that actually manifests?

Who is this person known to us only as "Witness A"? Are they hesitant to reveal themselves?

Will there be a "Witness B"?

Il Duce wrote:Facts

Larry Holmes has an excerpt of these events in his book, 'Against The Odds'.

So, these are verbatim passages taken from Holmes' book with no changes made by yourself?

Il Duce wrote: I believe I'm permitted to have 'literary license'.......

So it's just more made-up nonsense that never actually happened outside your twisted mind.

Carry on. (At least for now.)

Literary License

I like the name you give it.

Most attractive moniker I've ever heard for it as a matter of fact.

Hey Il Duce.....did Muhammad have his money?

I heard Roy took his lumps with him as well.

Probably was not good for anyone. But that's a readable story, whether it has facts or not.

You think Roy could have beaten him in a prize fight?

Il Duce wrote:Roy 'Tiger' Williams

Either left, quit, or was fired on Friday - March 14, 1975

Of course, this is depending on who you talk to.

Had Muhammad Ali fought Roy Williams instead of Chuck Wepner on March 24, 1975 -

Roy 'lumps up' Muhammad, and possibly stops him in 10 Rounds.

Well....as always, the ever faithful "spinner".....OK....if he was training for Wepner, and he ended up fighting Roy....that's possible. And that's the only way you can have this outrageous statement. And you and I both know why that might be so.

But you fancy yourself a sophisticated thinker.

So let's "get real" Let's say Ali was training for Roy......now do you still believe the hogwash you just spurted? Please show you have a pulse and have not totaly flatlined on us, and put some room between you and that well exploited statement you just made.

At some point, I'd like you to turn the mirror on yourself, and take responsibility for at least a few of your strained and stretched statements that you parse so very carefully. I'm sure you pride yourself on scandalizing the intellect of some, by hiding behind such nuances as this. And then sort of claiming that you really did mean "every word you typed". lol.

Most who read your stuff, just know you're full of bullshit...however I do think some may not always know why.

You and Big Jim been on the cocktails again, Duchess?

I thought it was Archie Moore who showed Ali how to use the ropes and
perform the 'roper dope' like defence early in the peace when Archie was
bought in to help the young Clay, even before they fought.

Many other fighters pre Ali and Williams for that matter had gone to
the ropes before the mid 70s in both SPARRING and prize fights.

But I guess so much has been made of the Zaire '74 fight that myth
and legend is merged with truth.

Roy Williams certainly seems to be a guy that all the top men avoided
either because of timing or because he was not worthy the risk.

Either way didn't an injured (right thumb injury) Larry Holmes best
Williams after taking the fight on very short notice a couple of years
after?

And didn't you claim that Richard Dunn was a bum..yet did he not
best Williams a year before ?

In any case if Roy Williams had no trouble slapping around one of the
World's top men (regardless of your opinion on Ali) then I guess
he must be a pretty decent sparring partner and prize fighter.

You know.... maybe Ali also wanted his sparring partners to go hard
to the body so he could get it conditioned....

I have given my sparring partners pretty specific orders in some
rounds also ie (kick my legs as much as you can or counter my
jab or work for take downs after every kick I throw etc etc)
But then I guess a piece of the pie still makes an entire meal of
facts to some people.

Well as you say he is a good gym fighter.

In my experiences a lot of talented guys inside the
gym are often less than stellar on game day for a
many a reasons.

Perhaps this could explain his loss to Dunn and
other fighters of an apparent lesser calibre.

Some really talented guys prefer the safety
of sparring and the gym and simply struggle
with the nerves and all the other elements
that challenge a fighter.

In any case I have always found Williams to be
an interesting and talented guy and no doubt
would give a lot of top tier fighters trouble,

One thing for certain he would KO most of
Burns, Sullivans and Corbetts tougher foes...

So in essence that would make Dunn the better fighter.

A big factor of fighting is motivation. Regardless of the
on paper talents and attributes, if a fighters mental game
or ability to adapt their gym talents to the conditions of
actual combat is poor as seems to be the case here
it sadly detracts from them as a fighter.

On another note

Retrospectively saying
'I would have won if I was' a. more motivated,
b.really wanted to win or c. better prepared mentally

are very easily said and change the fact...fighting
as I am sure you know are about what happens
on the night and behind every 'L' is usually a
hard luck story and found within most 'W's
are impressive circumstances. Narrative can be found
in every outcome. Sadly it matters little to our records
or our legacy :(

Il Duce wrote:OPINIONS

I guess acccording to the World of Box Buzz, you can't have an opinion on Muhammad Ali
losing.

I'll take Roy 'Tiger' Williams in early 1975 over ''Fat Turkey' Muhammad Ali.

He already kicked his 'ass' twice in March 1975, so much so that he was asked to leave the Camp.

Word also had it out of the N'Sele Training Center in Kinshasa - in September 1974 that Roy Williams
had no trouble slapping Muhammad around.

Roy was under 'orders', do not punch Muhammad in the head after one brutal session on October 1974.

Aye yi yi yi yi......

You can have any opinion you want.....diversity is celebrated. Yours are some of the most diverse around. Please express them as you wish. My point which you always take pride in ignoring is simply that a fighter trains with a fight plan for each opponent. If he took Wepner too lightly then fine. He should have been more alert to the ol' toe steppin'. He really did beat the tar out of the man regardless of your skewed perspective.

But in YOUR scenario he would be training for Roy....and he would very likely beat Roy. Because the intended target would different.

You tap at keys nicely....you put words together. Your output lines seem fine. I just can't get a reliable reading on if your input lines have been properly serviced.

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Robinson

Good points, and all are well taken.

But, some fighter's who get 'jerked around' by promised bouts that are cancelled, and
poor fight purse's, are usually good for a bad performance, or two, or three.

Roy Williams had numerous streaks of inactivity, due to the difficulty in getting decent
opponents.
* 18-Months
* 6-Months
* 8-Months
* 7-Months
* 6-Months
* 7-Months
* 5-Months

The story of my life :)


This is why I have always enjoyed and had a soft spot for a fighter like Jesse Fergusson,
a guy who was always in and out, about and around the top but was never consistent
nor too far from giving good guys a hard night.

Perhaps Roy Williams was like this, just in a very dense period of big men boxing.

Here is a far more accurate assessment of this drama.........Il Duce's version is more intriguing...but sometimes truth is a bit bland......

Ted, accordingly to Larry Holmes, Williams fight with Henry Clark was cancelled which was scheduled on the undercard of Ali-Foreman.

I believe the cancellation was due to Ali arriving at the arena late and Williams-Clark was to be the walk-out bout.

In any event Williams hounded Ali for the money from his cancelled bout and got pretty nasty with Ali at his camp calling him out and challenging him to a fight. Ali responded by fighting two back to back 10 round fights in two days with Williams I believe with no headgear. According to Holmes, Ali and Williams went to war.

Bottom line is Ali made Williams earn the money and ended up paying him for the canceled Clark fight.

The story can be found in Larry's autobiography which I have read but do not have a copy to reference.