BoxRec

Panamas "Manos de Piedra", Roberto Duran.


How do you think Roberto ranks all time in professional boxings lightweight division?


Durans performance in the lightweight division, did this make him the greatest lightweight of all time?


If so, why?



How do you think Roberto ranks all time in boxings welterweight division?


Why?



How do you think Duran ranks all time in the light middleweight division?


Why?



How do you think Roberto ranks all time in the middleweight division?


Why?




How do you think Duran ranks all time in boxings "Pound for Pound" category?


Why?

1) His time at lightweight puts him in the greatest in the division debate. It's not clear cut but he has a good shot at it. Only Benny Leonard and Joe Gans would be the other contenders...possibly Henry Armstrong as he was a lightweight holding the welterweight crown... Depends how you see it.

I'd have the 4 of them battle it out.

As a welter he has a few formidable performances but he doesn't get in the top 10. The night he beat Ray Leonard he was inspired and might have even beaten Robinson.

But he couldn't sustain the level of sacrifice and dedication he needed to.

Light-Middle and Middle...nowhere...

In a p4p sense somewhere between 6-12

I agree with all of that, though I'd add Ike Williams to the Lightweight debate.

Ike could be on that list, no arguments from me. But I put him one rung down with Freddie Welsh, Pernell Whittaker, Ross and Ortiz.

I will never have him outside of my all time top 10 pound for pound.

How do you think Roberto ranks all time in professional boxings lightweight division?

Top ten, maybe five for me.

Durans performance in the lightweight division, did this make him the greatest lightweight of all time?

Benny Leonard is #1.

How do you think Roberto ranks all time in boxings welterweight division?

Hard to judge. His standing would be a lot higher if he hadn't quit against Leonard.

How do you think Duran ranks all time in the light middleweight division?

Doesn't make the top 20.

How do you think Roberto ranks all time in the middleweight division?

Scrapes the top 50.

How do you think Duran ranks all time in boxings "Pound for Pound" category?

Top 20.

Top 5 p4p in the last 50 years.

To me, the greatest lightweight ever. Come on. Can you see any other lightweight beating this fighting machine when he is in the greatest of shape?

To me, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights, super welterweights nor middleweights. He is a lightweight, and was the best fighter of his generation, bar none.


To me, he is the best and greatest fighter of the last 50 years. Who could match his longevity, and ferocity, accomplishments and skills in higher weight classes?

He is definately a top 10 p4p great of all time. I ranked him at #4. Only the greats Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson and Sam Langford, to me, were better than he was. The rest? They come behind him. What a fighter. The best fighter I have ever seen in my lifetime!

elmersalsa wrote:To me, the greatest lightweight ever. Come on. Can you see any other lightweight beating this fighting machine when he is in the greatest of shape?

To me, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights, super welterweights nor middleweights. He is a lightweight, and was the best fighter of his generation, bar none.


To me, he is the best and greatest fighter of the last 50 years. Who could match his longevity, and ferocity, accomplishments and skills in higher weight classes?

He is definately a top 10 p4p great of all time. I ranked him at #4. Only the greats Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson and Sam Langford, to me, were better than he was. The rest? They come behind him. What a fighter. The best fighter I have ever seen in my lifetime!

How do you see Armstong-Duran going?

A Duran vs Armstrong could have been one of the best in history. Two offensive minded fighters that would not give an inch. If the fight is at lightweight, I see it very competitive, but, a straight forward guy like Armstrong would be too one dimensional for a COMPLETE FIGHTER like Duran. Duran wins on points.

unbelievable fighter with too much love for life,
which did lead to hatton-like weight swings. aside
of that he is part of two moments i hate to watch
in boxing clips: "no mas" and the terrible ending
against hearns.

There are numerous lightweights from the 30's and 40's who are either on equal standing with Duran or better than him as lightweights. Look at Lou Ambers best wins and then compare it to Duran's - absolutely no comparison. Duran just had the luxury of fighting in a weaker era and even then he didn't fight all that many top contenders. Avoided fighting Rodolfo Gonzalez as well.

Hairy Arse wrote:There are numerous lightweights from the 30's and 40's who are either on equal standing with Duran or better than him as lightweights. Look at Lou Ambers best wins and then compare it to Duran's - absolutely no comparison. Duran just had the luxury of fighting in a weaker era and even then he didn't fight all that many top contenders. Avoided fighting Rodolfo Gonzalez as well.

Are you serious? Lou Ambers competition better than Duran's at lightweight? That is laughable. Beating Ken Buchanan and Esteban De Jesus was ENOUGH. Buchanan and Esteban could hang with any lightweight in history.

And he avoided Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez? I respect "El Gato", but I do not think Duran avoided him.

Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong, Lou Ambers and Carlos Ortiz all beat better competition than Duran. And as for Esteban Dejesus, on BoxRec at least he's a little overrated. Very skillful fighter, but outside of his upset win over Duran, his competition wasn't that great.

elmersalsa wrote:

Hairy Arse wrote:There are numerous lightweights from the 30's and 40's who are either on equal standing with Duran or better than him as lightweights. Look at Lou Ambers best wins and then compare it to Duran's - absolutely no comparison. Duran just had the luxury of fighting in a weaker era and even then he didn't fight all that many top contenders. Avoided fighting Rodolfo Gonzalez as well.

Are you serious? Lou Ambers competition better than Duran's at lightweight? That is laughable. Beating Ken Buchanan and Esteban De Jesus was ENOUGH. Buchanan and Esteban could hang with any lightweight in history.

And he avoided Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez? I respect "El Gato", but I do not think Duran avoided him.

He should have been DQ'd against Buchanan. He won the fight with a low blow. That should NEVER be allowed to happen.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Hairy Arse wrote:There are numerous lightweights from the 30's and 40's who are either on equal standing with Duran or better than him as lightweights. Look at Lou Ambers best wins and then compare it to Duran's - absolutely no comparison. Duran just had the luxury of fighting in a weaker era and even then he didn't fight all that many top contenders. Avoided fighting Rodolfo Gonzalez as well.

Are you serious? Lou Ambers competition better than Duran's at lightweight? That is laughable. Beating Ken Buchanan and Esteban De Jesus was ENOUGH. Buchanan and Esteban could hang with any lightweight in history.

And he avoided Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez? I respect "El Gato", but I do not think Duran avoided him.

He should have been DQ'd against Buchanan. He won the fight with a low blow. That should NEVER be allowed to happen.

I agree with that. Was very poor refereeing. Klompton might shoot you down for saying so

Seamus wrote:Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong, Lou Ambers and Carlos Ortiz all beat better competition than Duran. And as for Esteban Dejesus, on BoxRec at least he's a little overrated. Very skillful fighter, but outside of his upset win over Duran, his competition wasn't that great.

At lightweight? no sir

The only lightweights that beat better competition than the great Roberto Duran at 135 are the greats Ike Williams, Beau Jack and Sammy Angott. The era they fought was the best era of the lightweight class.

Duran was winning the fight by FAR. Buchanan was looking a way out to win. End of story.

elmersalsa wrote:

Seamus wrote:Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong, Lou Ambers and Carlos Ortiz all beat better competition than Duran. And as for Esteban Dejesus, on BoxRec at least he's a little overrated. Very skillful fighter, but outside of his upset win over Duran, his competition wasn't that great.

At lightweight? no sir

The only lightweights that beat better competition than the great Roberto Duran at 135 are the greats Ike Williams, Beau Jack and Sammy Angott. The era they fought was the best era of the lightweight class.

I respectfully disagree. Completely.

Benny Leonard beat Freddie Welsh, who was better than any lightweight Duran ever beat.

Lou Ambers beat Tony Canzoneri and Henry Armstrong, both much better than any lightweight Duran ever beat.

Armstrong weighing within the lightweight limit, beat Barney Ross who weighed 142. Armstrong also beat Ambers. Much more impressive than anyone Duran ever beat at lightweight.

Ortiz best wins were roughly even with Duran's at lightweight. However, Ortiz had more of them; he beat an old but still good Joe Brown, as well as Laguna, Locche, Ramos, and Elorde. Not the best weight class for some of these guys but they were still pretty good.

elmersalsa wrote:Duran was winning the fight by FAR. Buchanan was looking a way out to win. End of story.

No, it's not end of story. Duran broke the rules all night long and won with a clear low blow. It matter how 'FAR' he was winning the fight by, he was cheating, simple really.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Seamus wrote:Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong, Lou Ambers and Carlos Ortiz all beat better competition than Duran. And as for Esteban Dejesus, on BoxRec at least he's a little overrated. Very skillful fighter, but outside of his upset win over Duran, his competition wasn't that great.

At lightweight? no sir

The only lightweights that beat better competition than the great Roberto Duran at 135 are the greats Ike Williams, Beau Jack and Sammy Angott. The era they fought was the best era of the lightweight class.

I respectfully disagree. Completely.

Benny Leonard beat Freddie Welsh, who was better than any lightweight Duran ever beat.

Lou Ambers beat Tony Canzoneri and Henry Armstrong, both much better than any lightweight Duran ever beat.

Armstrong weighing within the lightweight limit, beat Barney Ross who weighed 142. Armstrong also beat Ambers. Much more impressive than anyone Duran ever beat at lightweight.

Ortiz best wins were roughly even with Duran's at lightweight. However, Ortiz had more of them; he beat an old but still good Joe Brown, as well as Laguna, Locche, Ramos, and Elorde. Not the best weight class for some of these guys but they were still pretty good.

Freddie Welsh was better than any lightweight that Duran ever beat? yes. Tell me ANOTHER lightweight that the great Benny Leonard beat? Ken Buchanan and Esteban DeJesus are ranked by the Ring magazine as two of the top 20 lightweights ever, and I AGREE with that. Excellent boxers that would give any other lightweight fits.

Lou Ambers beat a WASHED UP great like Tony Canzoneri. That is like Duran fighting a washed up Carlos Ortiz. The ONLY great lightweight he beat was the great Henry Armstrong, and that was because Armstrong got DEDUCTED 2 POINTS in the second fight.

Carlos Ortiz did not beat better lightweights than Duran had. The great Joe Brown was for the taken. He was already WASHED UP when he fought Carlos. Carlos lost to Ismael Laguna, but, as a great champ, beat Laguna twice more, which is the best win he ever had against a lightweight opponent in his prime. He did not beat Nicolino Locche. It was a DRAW. Sugar Ramos? Sugar Ramos? Are you serious? Will he beat Duran, too? An OVERWEIGHT FEATHERWEIGHT that was already DAMAGED GOODS by the great Vicente Saldivar. No wonder why Carlos gave him a sound beating. The first fight in Mexico City was a MASSACRE that the great Billy Conn as a referee saw enough. And the second fight in San Juan, PR was MUCH WORSE. And you want to throw in Flash Elorde? A guy that could only win in his hometown? A featherweight? An overblown featherweight that fought at jr. lightweight? That is a great win? Do not make me laugh, Alp. Do not make me laugh.

The ONLY LIGHTWEIGHT in history, that I could consider that beat better lightweights than the great Roberto Duran put together was the great Ike Williams. That is IMPRESSIVE wins over top notch lightweights: Bob Montgomery, Beau Jack, Sammy Angott, Willie Joyce, Enrique Bolanos, Tippy Larkin, Juan Zurita, Wesley Mouzon, Jimmy Carter and Slugger White. Now, THERE IS NO COMPARISON!

Ike Williams did not beat Jimmy Carter, but, man, considering the quality of opposition at lightweight Williams had was IMPRESSIVE. No other lightweight come close.

I certainly don't dispute that Williams beat better competition than Duran; but so did several guys.

Besides Freddie Welsh, you want me to name another lightweight that Benny Leonard beat? OK, I will name Rocky Kansas. He was another lightweight.

Ambers beat a washed up Tony Canzoneri? He was just 27 when Ambers beat him the first time. And yes the win over Armstrong counts even though Armstrong got deducted some points. Ambers also beat Pedro Montanez.

Ortiz only got a daw vs Locche. Should have not counted that embarrassing performance. Sugar Ramos was damaged good when he fought Ortiz? The guy was 25 years old. He was in his prime. He lost to Saldivar. Saldviar was a great fighter.
Flash Elorde never won outside of his hometown? Umm, yes he did. For starters, he beat Laguna in Tokyo. He beat several other top 10 fighters outside of his hometown.

You didn't respond to Armstrong. I hope you agree that beating Ambers and Ross is a tad more impressive than beat Buchanan and DeJesus.

A few more guys who beat better competition than Duran at lightweight:

Joe Gans: Beat Frankie Erne, Dave Holly, Jack Blackburn, and Battling Nelson.

Bob Montgomery: beat Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Fritzie Zivc, Slugger White, Jenkins.

Sammy Angott: was 3-0 against Montgomery, also beat Jenkins.

Beau Jack- Beat Montomery, Angott, Zivic, Juan Zurita, and Bummy Davis.

No, I don't think Ken Buchanan and DeJesus were top 20 lightweights. You are propping them up to make Duran look good. They were good fighters; nothing special.
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