BoxRec

with Lomachenko set to challenge for a World title in only his 2nd pro fight, ok i know he was an exceptional amateur and olympic gold medalist, but he is still only 25.

Why in this country does it take years before prospects are fighting at British title level? is it marketing?

or do people think Lomachenko is just somthing extra special

gazza8 wrote:with Lomachenko set to challenge for a World title in only his 2nd pro fight, ok i know he was an exceptional amateur and olympic gold medalist, but he is still only 25.

Why in this country does it take years before prospects are fighting at British title level? is it marketing?

or do people think Lomachenko is just somthing extra special

He is extra special. No British Amateur has won 2/3 World Championships and back to back Olympics.

I think they should take their time with him, but no one would turn down a World Title opportunity, where you have had 2 or 200 fights.

Lomachenko is very much an exception to the rule.

Probably the best amateur ever and he has already had half a dozen or so "pro" fights in the WSB.

Britain has never had an amateur of his calibre.

lillywhite14 wrote:Lomachenko is very much an exception to the rule.

Probably the best amateur ever and he has already had half a dozen or so "pro" fights in the WSB.

Britain has never had an amateur of his calibre.

This

Yes, Lomachenko is exceptional, but there is also a world of difference between British title and World title.

There are certain divisions in which the British champion is unlikely to go beyond that level. For example, if Chisora and Fury are not involved for a vacant British title fight - who would not favour Joshua beating everyone else.

In the lower weights it not unusual for a boxer to be fighting for the British title after a handful of fights.

In today's paper it said that he had 397 fights and only lost once (which he avenged twice) against a Russian in the World championships final.

I understand the point though - would it be reasonable for an Olympic champion to fight for a British title after a couple of fights?

In these days where top amateurs are full time and effectively pros (who have probably sparred good pros for years) then why not?

Lomachenko is a freak example...but how about talking about Kazuto Ioka? Saensak Muangsurin? Heck Ryota Murata and Naoya Inoue have both been matched hard from the off, ditto Jomthong Chuwatana Takuma Inoue and Kosei
Tanaka.

Sure most of these were lower weights but Muangsurinn and Murata are bigger blokes, so to Artur Beterbiev and even Beibut Shumenov...

Joshua and Campbell are likely to be pushed along quite quickly. Joshua will certainly be European level by the end of the year and Campbell well I'd fancy him to win the British if he was fighting for that next

His amateur record and the fact that he fought at a higher weight class in 2012 just to make it harder for himself. Joshua has been boxing for 5 years. Levels.

gazza8 wrote:with Lomachenko set to challenge for a World title in only his 2nd pro fight, ok i know he was an exceptional amateur and olympic gold medalist, but he is still only 25.

Why in this country does it take years before prospects are fighting at British title level? is it marketing?

or do people think Lomachenko is just somthing extra special

You should watch him fight. Pretty amazing, has speed, power, footwork, head and upper body movement, experience. If he beats Salido I reckon he will get to Top 100 p4p status by the end of his career. I don't think that about any of the British prospects, though Campbell could be a possible star.

Not only is Lomochenko a complete natural, he also trains like Mayweather ! His amateur/wsb experience money can't buy ! He can be as good as he wants

jessi wrote:Not only is Lomochenko a complete natural he trains like Mayweather ! His amateur/wsb experience money can't buy ! He can be as good as he wants

I hope he blazes a trail all the way to Floyd but I don't think they will end up fighting. I think he will take Manny on at some point though.

I think Manny will be retired within the next 12 months. His best was getting on for 4/5 years ago now.

Lomachenko v Rigondeaux is where its at anyway!

lillywhite14 wrote:I think Manny will be retired within the next 12 months. His best was getting on for 4/5 years ago now.

Lomachenko v Rigondeaux is where its at anyway!

Yes agree, I think Lomochenko brings the best out of rigendeaux, the weight advantage to vasyl will be to much for the Cuban !

jackukmma wrote:Joshua and Campbell are likely to be pushed along quite quickly. Joshua will certainly be European level by the end of the year and Campbell well I'd fancy him to win the British if he was fighting for that next

When Lomachenko faced Jose Ramirez back in October, Ramirez was ranked at number 7 with the WBO and held their International title.

If our Olympians turned pro at the same time as Lomachenko, and faced a similar ranked opponent to maneuver themselves into world title contention, I'm not sure I'd fancy their chances at all.

Anthony Joshua Vs. Andy Ruiz Jr. (Ranked 7th by the WBO and their Inter-Continental champion)

Luke Campbell Vs. Jose A Gonzalez (Ranked 7th by the WBO and the last holder of their Latino lightweight title)

Anthony Ogogo Vs. Patrick Nielsen (Ranked 8th by the WBO and their Inter-Continental champion)

Lomachenko is an incredible talent. He turned pro being almost the finished article. Will be very interesting to see how quickly his career develops. I read they want to attempt to unify the division within his first 10 fights!

I expect a top prospect to become a world ranked, fighting at least eliminators or world title fighting within 4 years of a pro. Most of the greats do this. But in the UK this is generally considered very quick.

Our 2008 olympians should all (those that are going to make it) have fought for a world title by now - some of them a only now looking at moving to European level now - far too slow. Yes, I think by US standards, promoters tend to molly cuddle our fighters. Not just lomochenko, its the norm for the decent amateurs to get fast tracked.

But then - one fighter who wasn't molly cuddle was Adrien Broner - and maybe thats a good reason why we should molly cuddle them. Although on the flip side of that, when they are finally let of the leash in the UK they will typically be in their late 20's and have a short time at the top. Look at Hatton - 8 years "learning his trade" - got there, only 3/4 years at the top - and he turned over in his teans, but pushing 27 fighting for a world title. Mayweather champion within 2 years of turning over, that means he's been earning pretty big for around 15 years now as a world champion.

I'm not saying we should do a Lomochenko, but we should push our fighters far quicker than what they are.

The 'four year plan' should be the benchmark when talking about highly talented amateurs.

DeGale was derailed against Groves of course. Had he got the nod that night instead of George, I think he would have fought for a world title by now.

Gavin is still some way off a world title shot which is disappointing. Price obviously has come up short so far.

Campbell is no spring chicken so I don't expect him to hang around too much. Joshua don't need holding back too long. Let him loose on the domestic set up this year with a view to having a bash in the states and the European next year. Will set him up nicely for a world title shot in early 2016.

stujones wrote:I expect a top prospect to become a world ranked, fighting at least eliminators or world title fighting within 4 years of a pro. Most of the greats do this. But in the UK this is generally considered very quick.

Our 2008 olympians should all (those that are going to make it) have fought for a world title by now - some of them a only now looking at moving to European level now - far too slow. Yes, I think by US standards, promoters tend to molly cuddle our fighters. Not just lomochenko, its the norm for the decent amateurs to get fast tracked.

But then - one fighter who wasn't molly cuddle was Adrien Broner - and maybe thats a good reason why we should molly cuddle them. Although on the flip side of that, when they are finally let of the leash in the UK they will typically be in their late 20's and have a short time at the top. Look at Hatton - 8 years "learning his trade" - got there, only 3/4 years at the top - and he turned over in his teans, but pushing 27 fighting for a world title. Mayweather champion within 2 years of turning over, that means he's been earning pretty big for around 15 years now as a world champion.

I'm not saying we should do a Lomochenko, but we should push our fighters far quicker than what they are.

I agree. I think on the whole Lomachenko is moving a bit too quick in that it's his 2nd fight but I think a lot of our guys can be moved a lot quicker than they are.

lillywhite14 wrote:The 'four year plan' should be the benchmark when talking about highly talented amateurs.

DeGale was derailed against Groves of course. Had he got the nod that night instead of George, I think he would have fought for a world title by now.

Gavin is still some way off a world title shot which is disappointing. Price obviously has come up short so far.

Campbell is no spring chicken so I don't expect him to hang around too much. Joshua don't need holding back too long. Let him loose on the domestic set up this year with a view to having a bash in the states and the European next year. Will set him up nicely for a world title shot in early 2016.

The only one you said don't need holding back is Joshua, yet his the most inexperienced

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Joshua and Campbell are likely to be pushed along quite quickly. Joshua will certainly be European level by the end of the year and Campbell well I'd fancy him to win the British if he was fighting for that next

Joshua European Level is surely a joke? You think he can mix it with Chisora after beating bums.

jessi wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:The 'four year plan' should be the benchmark when talking about highly talented amateurs.

DeGale was derailed against Groves of course. Had he got the nod that night instead of George, I think he would have fought for a world title by now.

Gavin is still some way off a world title shot which is disappointing. Price obviously has come up short so far.

Campbell is no spring chicken so I don't expect him to hang around too much. Joshua don't need holding back too long. Let him loose on the domestic set up this year with a view to having a bash in the states and the European next year. Will set him up nicely for a world title shot in early 2016.

The only one you said don't need holding back is Joshua, yet his the most inexperienced

I meant its disappointing that the 2008 lot have not done anything yet. DeGale and Price have excuses, although DeGale is in an eliminator next. Gavin is going along at a painfully slow pace. Shame really.

None of them needed holding back. Price was held back then took a big step and came up short. We are still asking questions over the 2008 lot when after five and half years since that Olympics, all the questions should be answered by now.

I can't imagine Campbell as Joshua still waiting for world title shots in four years time. By then we will know just what they are capable of. Campbell is pretty advanced in age given his weight division so that will force the issue. Joshua has too much exposure not to get a move on. Matchroom have already said they want to move him along at a nice pace.

Do you think Joshua really has that much exposure? Compared to how Audley and Khan were, he's virtually unknown.

mickey1975 wrote:Do you think Joshua really has that much exposure? Compared to how Audley and Khan were, he's virtually unknown.

Yep... while the olympics was on he was the big guy that was on BBC. Everyone's forgotten (which is easy to do when someone fights on a paid channel... alla everyone in boxing)