BoxRec

Boxer vs Puncher.Who would win?

Tyson by mid rounds TKO.

Young would frustrate Tyson early, but I could see Mike tagging him & the referee having to save him from a barrage in about the 6th round.

Syntax Error wrote:Tyson by mid rounds TKO.

Young would frustrate Tyson early, but I could see Mike tagging him & the referee having to save him from a barrage in about the 6th round.

Same for me

Tyson by early KO. Bad style matchup for Young.

Tyson takes this in dominant fashion. Young couldn't get his respect, Mike by mid round TKO or KO in a one sided fight.

No HW frustrated an opponent like a prime Jimmy Young. Young by decision.

TYSON WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE KNOWN AS A FOUR ROUND FIGHTER AFTER FOUR THE WORSE COULD BEAT HIM REMEMBER DOUGLAS

The Great John L wrote:No HW frustrated an opponent like a prime Jimmy Young. Young by decision.

True, but in Tyson, Jimmy would be facing a different animal, and I don't know how Jimmy could fare against the force of nature that was Mike Tyson over the long haul.

Nile4000 wrote:

The Great John L wrote:No HW frustrated an opponent like a prime Jimmy Young. Young by decision.

True, but in Tyson, Jimmy would be facing a different animal, and I don't know how Jimmy could fare against the force of nature that was Mike Tyson over the long haul.

I'm pretty confident that Tyson never faced anyone as slick as Young either. I appear to be in a small minority with this pick, but at his best it was almost impossible to catch Young with a solid shot on the chin, and Tyson did get frustrated. The ref would have been very important in a matchup like this.

A guy who hangs tough with Ali, Norton and Foreman. Making all those fights pickems is surely a resume that has at least an even shot going in. I'm in Jimmy's corner on this one. Would be a very interesting fight.

I see this unfolding like James Quick Tillis vs. Tyson.

Tyson struggles to a UD.

ABC BOXING wrote:TYSON WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE KNOWN AS A FOUR ROUND FIGHTER AFTER FOUR THE WORSE COULD BEAT HIM REMEMBER DOUGLAS

Prime Tyson beat good guys down the stretch. He absolutely didn't look the same monster he did in the early rounds, but I give you Ruddock, Bruno (the first time), Biggs, Tucker, Thomas. All those guys survived the first 4, and in most cases, did better in the first 4 than they did thereafter. Then factor in performances where the guys were more negative, like Smith or Tillis, and you can see that Mike wasn't a spent force after 4, just not a hurricane any more. Citing his one loss near prime as evidence that "the worst could beat him" undervalues him, and I'm someone who thinks he's normally overrated.

Jimmy Young gave Ali hell because he forced him to be the aggressor, and Ali thrived on being the toreador. Tyson in prime wanted nothing more than for you to wait and try to counter him. Shavers sparked Young in 3 the first time, and whilst he lost on points the second, his punch output was WAY lower than prime Tyson. Wins over Lyle, and a Foreman who chose that night to find Jesus in the ring are impressive, but back to back losses to Ossie Occasio don't suggest that he'd give Tyson that hard a night.

SamWise72 wrote:

ABC BOXING wrote:TYSON WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE KNOWN AS A FOUR ROUND FIGHTER AFTER FOUR THE WORSE COULD BEAT HIM REMEMBER DOUGLAS

Prime Tyson beat good guys down the stretch. He absolutely didn't look the same monster he did in the early rounds, but I give you Ruddock, Bruno (the first time), Biggs, Tucker, Thomas. All those guys survived the first 4, and in most cases, did better in the first 4 than they did thereafter. Then factor in performances where the guys were more negative, like Smith or Tillis, and you can see that Mike wasn't a spent force after 4, just not a hurricane any more. Citing his one loss near prime as evidence that "the worst could beat him" undervalues him, and I'm someone who thinks he's normally overrated.

Jimmy Young gave Ali hell because he forced him to be the aggressor, and Ali thrived on being the toreador. Tyson in prime wanted nothing more than for you to wait and try to counter him. Shavers sparked Young in 3 the first time, and whilst he lost on points the second, his punch output was WAY lower than prime Tyson. Wins over Lyle, and a Foreman who chose that night to find Jesus in the ring are impressive, but back to back losses to Ossie Occasio don't suggest that he'd give Tyson that hard a night.

Youngs losses to Ocasio are about as relevant as Tysons losses to McBride and Williams.

Who was the closest thing to Jimmy Young that Mike faced? Quick Tillis?

Jimmy didn't fight a Tyson either, I know...

I think this is a close fight going in. Tyson could blow him, or anyone away, early. But that doesn't mean it always happens.

Really interesting matchup and some very good opinions.
I somehow like it to the Tyson - Mathis Jnr fight. Tyson was poor in this one and Mathis Jnr is no Young. But I feel the fight may pan out this way. I loved Young, a super cool, amazingly cute boxer who knew all the tricks in the book. The only thing is whether he had enough power to get Mike's respect. He was a fair puncher but not hard. He wouldn't be intimidated either.
So in my opinion Young does fairly well for the first few rounds, spoiling Tyson. I think a wicked body attack from Mike will hurt Young and Mike would finish him in 7...probably quite brutally

Ezzard wrote:Who was the closest thing to Jimmy Young that Mike faced? Quick Tillis?

Jimmy didn't fight a Tyson either, I know...

I think this is a close fight going in. Tyson could blow him, or anyone away, early. But that doesn't mean it always happens.

Exactly. And Young was able to confuse and frustrate some of the best HWs of the past half century. Tyson wasn't a non-stop punching machine like Frazier who would have been right on top of Young all night long. In fact, Norton probably put more constant pressure on Young than even a prime Tyson would have been able to apply and Young arguably won that fight. Clearly Tyson was a harder puncher than Norton, but Young at his best was almost impossible to hit with a solid shot.

Of course as you noted, it’s possible that Tyson could have caught Young and stopped him early, but it’s also just as likely that Tyson would have shot his wad early and then sleep walked after the first 4 or 5 rounds with Young actually stepping up his punch output and snagging a decision.

The Great John L wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:

ABC BOXING wrote:TYSON WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE KNOWN AS A FOUR ROUND FIGHTER AFTER FOUR THE WORSE COULD BEAT HIM REMEMBER DOUGLAS

Prime Tyson beat good guys down the stretch. He absolutely didn't look the same monster he did in the early rounds, but I give you Ruddock, Bruno (the first time), Biggs, Tucker, Thomas. All those guys survived the first 4, and in most cases, did better in the first 4 than they did thereafter. Then factor in performances where the guys were more negative, like Smith or Tillis, and you can see that Mike wasn't a spent force after 4, just not a hurricane any more. Citing his one loss near prime as evidence that "the worst could beat him" undervalues him, and I'm someone who thinks he's normally overrated.

Jimmy Young gave Ali hell because he forced him to be the aggressor, and Ali thrived on being the toreador. Tyson in prime wanted nothing more than for you to wait and try to counter him. Shavers sparked Young in 3 the first time, and whilst he lost on points the second, his punch output was WAY lower than prime Tyson. Wins over Lyle, and a Foreman who chose that night to find Jesus in the ring are impressive, but back to back losses to Ossie Occasio don't suggest that he'd give Tyson that hard a night.

Youngs losses to Ocasio are about as relevant as Tysons losses to McBride and Williams.

That's not really true. He was only a year out from his career best result over Foreman, and two years from arguably his greatest performance against Ali. Tyson's Holyfield losses are a much better comparison, and there was still a reasonable amount of Tyson left at that point.

SamWise72 wrote:That's not really true. He was only a year out from his career best result over Foreman, and two years from arguably his greatest performance against Ali. Tyson's Holyfield losses are a much better comparison, and there was still a reasonable amount of Tyson left at that point.

I think you’re looking at his career and not the mans history. Young struggled with demons that hindered many of his performances, and I’m pretty certain that’s what happened against Jaws. Tyson certainly had his own demons to deal with as well, as was evident in many of his fights.

The most curious thing about the majority of posts on this thread are the number of people saying that Young would get blown out. Besides his stoppage loss to Shavers very early in his career, Young was not the type to get blown out, and peak Tyson certainly had a number of fights where he was forced to slow his pace and sleepwalk to boring decisions over guys not nearly as skilled as Young.

I think the combination of a thundering start, and a reasonably high workrate of big shots over the distance is going to be more than Young can finesse. I think Tyson is a different prospect to Foreman or Shavers, who are his nearest comparisons; higher workrate than either, MUCH faster, and in his prime, more determined than the Foreman that Young beat. I don't think he'll blow him out, although there's few in history to compare to Tyson's early rounds assault, but whilst I think Jimmy might make him work hard, I don't think the result would be in doubt.

SamWise72 wrote:I think the combination of a thundering start, and a reasonably high workrate of big shots over the distance is going to be more than Young can finesse. I think Tyson is a different prospect to Foreman or Shavers, who are his nearest comparisons; higher workrate than either, MUCH faster, and in his prime, more determined than the Foreman that Young beat. I don't think he'll blow him out, although there's few in history to compare to Tyson's early rounds assault, but whilst I think Jimmy might make him work hard, I don't think the result would be in doubt.

I don’t recall Tyson ever exhibiting a high work rate over the distance. I remember than when he was forced to go the distance his work rate tailed off mid rounds and he started throwing single shots and willingly fell into clinches.

Besides the work rate I agree with most of your points about Tyson, but no one was more determined than a prime Foreman, and the one that fought Young was arguably the best version of George. That version had the jab of old George, a better defense than earlier and was able to apply pressure in a controlled manner with shorter more accurate punches. Of course, as you noted, Tyson was much faster than Foreman, Shavers or Lyle. OTOH, Young almost made Ali look slow.

My only point is that I struggle to see how anyone could not envision this as a difficult fight for Tyson. Young was a nightmare for some of the best HWs of the 70s, which many consider the best era for HWs.

He made a late Ali look slow, not 67 Clay :) Not that 76 Ali was a slouch, but a lot of the pop had gone. For me, Manila had sucked the last of anything but whiliness out of Ali. And yeah, whilst Tyson wasn't the combination machine in the late rounds that he was early, I think if you start counting, you'll find he was throwing as much as Shavers or Foreman threw earlier in fights, and all of them big shots. If Young can bamboozle him, take an early lead, and not get hurt too much, then maybe he stands a chance. I still think Tucker would have won if he'd had both hands for the whole fight, but he had the pop to keep Tyson honest with his right. Did Young?

SamWise72 wrote:He made a late Ali look slow, not 67 Clay :) Not that 76 Ali was a slouch, but a lot of the pop had gone. For me, Manila had sucked the last of anything but whiliness out of Ali. And yeah, whilst Tyson wasn't the combination machine in the late rounds that he was early, I think if you start counting, you'll find he was throwing as much as Shavers or Foreman threw earlier in fights, and all of them big shots. If Young can bamboozle him, take an early lead, and not get hurt too much, then maybe he stands a chance. I still think Tucker would have won if he'd had both hands for the whole fight, but he had the pop to keep Tyson honest with his right. Did Young?

He didn't need the "pop", but he certainly had enough to keep people honest. Besides, I think Tyson would have been frustrated and Youngs volume punching would have caused him enough discomfort.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the reasonable exchange.

I think that Jimmy Young would have been ALL WRONG for the great Mike Tyson. Young was a MASTER that got robbed of his title try with the great Muhammad Ali. He made Ali looked like an amateur, even though, it was not Ali's in his prime.

I do not think that Tyson will blow him out. Young at his very best was sensational MASTER. He reminds me of Chris Byrd and the great Wilfred Benitez

The Great John L wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:He made a late Ali look slow, not 67 Clay :) Not that 76 Ali was a slouch, but a lot of the pop had gone. For me, Manila had sucked the last of anything but whiliness out of Ali. And yeah, whilst Tyson wasn't the combination machine in the late rounds that he was early, I think if you start counting, you'll find he was throwing as much as Shavers or Foreman threw earlier in fights, and all of them big shots. If Young can bamboozle him, take an early lead, and not get hurt too much, then maybe he stands a chance. I still think Tucker would have won if he'd had both hands for the whole fight, but he had the pop to keep Tyson honest with his right. Did Young?

He didn't need the "pop", but he certainly had enough to keep people honest. Besides, I think Tyson would have been frustrated and Youngs volume punching would have caused him enough discomfort.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the reasonable exchange.

I meant pop in terms of speed, which I realise now is not how anyone else uses it :) Maybe snap is a better word?