BoxRec

do you guys/girls think he should be in the hall of fame???

some will say he should some will say he shouldnt. Also there is another thread exactly the same as this somewhere on here not so long ago

He should IMO. But for politics, should have held all 4 belts at some point. Beaten several champs and was a crossover star.

there's a documentary doing the rounds somewhere where he comes across as a nice, humble, intelligent guy. The total opposite of what I thought he was. Think it was an interview he did on Sky - post career.
I thought he was a talented ring bully personally.

why do people put there is a post like this up here bla bla?? im asking after reading todays bn so what was here weeks or days b4 has nothing to do with why im asking this question at this time!!

amirah wrote:why do people put there is a post like this up here bla bla?? im asking after reading todays bn so what was here weeks or days b4 has nothing to do with why im asking this question at this time!!

Jesus Christ, that could have been written in hieroglyphics and I would have understood it about as well.

Ryan Songalia's point in Boxing News about good fighters needing a degree of like ability to be inducted was really interesting. If most HOF voters were from the UK, Naz would already be in, most are from the US. So cockiness has kept him out of the IBHOF.

I think Naz is definitely worthy of HoF status, though having read has interview with Danny Flexen at BN online I think he's delusional about parts of his career. I found this quote in particular just staggering:
"...it was the biggest blessing that I left that gym. The trainers I met after that, Manny Steward, who trained over 40 world champions, and Oscar Suarez who was a massive plus in my career, an amazing man, an amazing trainer and an amazing teacher. I’m so happy that I had him and you could tell the improvements from when I started with him until the [Paul] Ingle fight, the things I did different. "

http://boxingnewsonline.net/latest/feat ... s-part-two

Personally I thought Naz leaving the Ingles was detrimental to his career and I remember at the time being utterly unimpressed by Suarez. Is my memory playing tricks on me?

No its not Deserter.

On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

It always comes back to the standard of those in the hall of fame. Namely McGuigan and Gatti.

Tomasino wrote:On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

I think Vasquez achieved far more in his career than either of those did. Tom Johnson definitely did. Arguably so did Bungu, albeit at a lower weight.

orbtastic wrote:

Tomasino wrote:On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

I think Vasquez achieved far more in his career than either of those did. Tom Johnson definitely did. Arguably so did Bungu, albeit at a lower weight.

I agree 100%, he also stopped Medina while ill with the flu, Medina went on to win the world title later on and he stopped Ingle who won a world title also, how many world champions do you have to beat ? What about Barry McGuigan he beat and ageing champion and nothing else of note and lost to two ordinary fighters ? Yet he is more well thought of, I guess being a nice guy is more important then what you achieve ?

Deserter wrote:I think Naz is definitely worthy of HoF status, though having read has interview with Danny Flexen at BN online I think he's delusional about parts of his career. I found this quote in particular just staggering:
"...it was the biggest blessing that I left that gym. The trainers I met after that, Manny Steward, who trained over 40 world champions, and Oscar Suarez who was a massive plus in my career, an amazing man, an amazing trainer and an amazing teacher. I’m so happy that I had him and you could tell the improvements from when I started with him until the [Paul] Ingle fight, the things I did different. "

http://boxingnewsonline.net/latest/feat ... s-part-two

Personally I thought Naz leaving the Ingles was detrimental to his career and I remember at the time being utterly unimpressed by Suarez. Is my memory playing tricks on me?

They tried to change his style, he got hit a lot more, but his power got him out of jail each time, it was a matter of time until rolling the nice failed him, against Barrera his hands were shot to bits and his preparation was poor, earlier in his career he would have knocked out Barrera, but in boxing it is all about the right time and the right place.

orbtastic wrote:

Tomasino wrote:On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

I think Vasquez achieved far more in his career than either of those did. Tom Johnson definitely did. Arguably so did Bungu, albeit at a lower weight.

Tom was almost finished when Naz got him. Good fighter but slow and made for Naz. Vasquez was the same. I named Kelly and McCullough because at least they were in their prime.

Tomasino wrote:

orbtastic wrote:

Tomasino wrote:On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

I think Vasquez achieved far more in his career than either of those did. Tom Johnson definitely did. Arguably so did Bungu, albeit at a lower weight.

Tom was almost finished when Naz got him. Good fighter but slow and made for Naz. Vasquez was the same. I named Kelly and McCullough because at least they were in their prime.

No way was Kelly in his prime. Gonzalez had already badly burst his bubble and he had looked shopworn and very beatable in subsequent fights. Neither was McCullough, he had no pedigree at 126 and had lost to old man Zaragoza.

Johnson and Vasquez were old, that's not in question, but both were on a fine run of form and both unbeaten for some time.

I'd say if if ever there was a HOF ballot for those five fighters mentioned, the three I named would get in over the two you mentioned, absolutely no question.

ttornado wrote:Ryan Songalia's point in Boxing News about good fighters needing a degree of like ability to be inducted was really interesting. If most HOF voters were from the UK, Naz would already be in, most are from the US. So cockiness has kept him out of the IBHOF.

the whole fast-car, wrong lane, blind hill episode leaves a sour taste with me. Didn't he run away from the scene at first? Isn't Carlos Monzon in there though? I read the other week that he killed his wife?

@ttornado.....well spotted, I'd never heard of this guy before but he came across well in BN and seemed to understand the actual, real-world mechanics of what it takes to get a successful nomination far better than the Brits contributing to the same article. Clearly, the BN team feel that Naz should already be in there (hence their slightly random decision to publish a huge Hamed Special Edition out of the complete blue) but I am not so sure. Naz might have to wait a few more years before people begin to appreciate how exciting he was.

The thing with Naz was, before Barrera, and by then he was slacking big time, he didnt really do close fights. Even Kelley, for all the drama and Naz being all over the place most of the fight, he never looked remotely hurt and it was only ever going to take a Naz bomb and KK was gone.

All these names, Vasquez, McCullogh, Johnson, Medina, Ingle etc, Naz beat them all by a mile.

Waste of talent? Yep, despite all what he achieved, which was a lot. He was ranked top 3 or 4 p4p for quite sometime wasn't he in various stateside publications wasn't he? Even the Naz we saw against Barrera, who was not the same man he was a few years before ( taking nothing away from MAB ) managed to somehow only lose it by 3 or 4 rounds!

Anyone who say Johnson against Badillo or Vasquez against Genaro Rios wil realise they were almost corpses by the time they got in with Hamed, but had been kept alive to have the 'big fight'. It was one of the reasons Robinson was frozen out of getting another title shot, when any other long term champ would have walked into another shot.

Kelley was also seen as a very clever opponent. On the slide, but a big name (nowhere near as gone as the other two were, granted) Still, revisionism says that everyone saw this as a massive test, when in fact it was seen as Hamed's coming out party.

Robinson is still the biggest win, and the best performance of his career

No I don't think he should be in the HOF. He was a flash in the pan and when in the ring with his first elite level fighter he was schooled, and never came back.

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Tomasino wrote:

orbtastic wrote:

Tomasino wrote:On talent, he should have made the hall. His career wasn't filled with big wins however, so I can see why he hasn't made it in...yet. His biggest win was probably Kevin Kelly, who didn't go on to anything else of note afterwards. Wayne McCullough prob second best win. It's not really a hall of fame career is it. Maybe the biggest waste of talent in my lifetime aside from Mike Tyson.

I think Vasquez achieved far more in his career than either of those did. Tom Johnson definitely did. Arguably so did Bungu, albeit at a lower weight.

Tom was almost finished when Naz got him. Good fighter but slow and made for Naz. Vasquez was the same. I named Kelly and McCullough because at least they were in their prime.

No way was Kelly in his prime. Gonzalez had already badly burst his bubble and he had looked shopworn and very beatable in subsequent fights. Neither was McCullough, he had no pedigree at 126 and had lost to old man Zaragoza.

Johnson and Vasquez were old, that's not in question, but both were on a fine run of form and both unbeaten for some time.

I'd say if if ever there was a HOF ballot for those five fighters mentioned, the three I named would get in over the two you mentioned, absolutely no question.[/quote]

You are saying that aside from Bungu he didn't defeat a top class boxer in his prime. Wait a minute...Bungu never had a top flight fight or indeed win again after Hamed. The best fighter he faced handled him and he didnt come back from it. I think this further explains his exclusion from the Hall.

Tomasino you could say the something about Tyson tho , he never beat a HOF fighter in their prime or natural weight class ether .

I think it is ludicrous he isn't in there. He absolutely lit up boxing during his time. Gatti made it in, and achieved far less, same with McGuigan.

How is he not in there - he was one of the most exciting fighters in the history of the sport, a huge star, and had enough major wins to warrant it by a country mile, given how lax the criteria have become, I just don't understand it.

Tomasino wrote:You are saying that aside from Bungu he didn't defeat a top class boxer in his prime. Wait a minute...Bungu never had a top flight fight or indeed win again after Hamed. The best fighter he faced handled him and he didnt come back from it. I think this further explains his exclusion from the Hall.

Bungu has two wins over McKinney, who was a decent operator at 122. You can't just summarily dismiss him with a wave of the hand.

He beat the guys that held the titles, presumably you'd have preferred he face Beleno (who I saw fight Johnson live) or Rios?

You can't have it both ways.

The reason he isn't in the HOF (yet) is because he's a very divisive personality and a lot of people couldn't stick his public "persona" but yet these are the same ones who were creaming themselves over the excitement and money he brought and the glitz and the ring entrances that HBO fell over themselves to accommodate.

To me it's not who you beat, but when, and how.

If Gatti is in because he's Mr Excitement and McGuigan is in because he's Mr Popular, then I don't see why Hamed can't be in because he had both in spades and his career, albeit relatively short and not quite the "legend" he promised, delivered far more than the majority of British boxers could hope to.

If people don't want him in, then that's fair enough. I don't care enough either way to get excited about it.

I suspect when MAB is in, one of the big wins on his ledger that they point to first will be Hamed.