BoxRec

one of the finest fighters who ever lived. this is a
boxing board and i write this if i decide to do so.

his finest moments were when he called for the ref
to stop a fight so that he himself would not have to
hurt a defenseless man and his funniest moment
was maybe this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmiWLoKzWO0

now close this thread, since this board has managed
to make the man a person one cannot talk about;
here, on boxrec, the biggest boxing database and a
widely acclaimed resource for comments on the sport.

It's a darn shame how any discussion about Ali is censored by the powers-that-be. . . .

raylawpc wrote:It's a darn shame how any discussion about Ali is censored by the powers-that-be. . . .

There certainly wouldn't be a place for this post in today's earlier Ali appreciation thread or the finest moments thread. Hold on, I think I hear Alp coming in to talk about how biased the forum is against Muhammad.

It's funny how my piss taking thread was locked but yet Duce is allowed to constantly spout shite. Nice work Buzz

How about that admins and moderators will close topics and give warnings for every thread about Ali (positive and negative) for a week or a month? Maybe this reassures the situation and after that week/month everybody will forget about an Ali's overrepresentation on this forum and will treat him like any other boxer (I hope).

Maybe my idea is stupid but I think that it becomes very irritating that Ali is everywhere. I'm scared to open a fridge

columbo wrote:It's funny how my piss taking thread was locked but yet Duce is allowed to constantly spout shite. Nice work Buzz

I'm not sure I like your tone.

raylawpc wrote:It's a darn shame how any discussion about Ali is censored by the powers-that-be. . . .

You can't have a real discussion about Ali on here anymore. Duce and Spice Moutain have ruined that. Not that it matters. There's nothing that anybody could possibly say about Ali on this forum anymore that hasn't been said 10 times over already.

If you did a Search thread for Muhammad Ali, I guarantee every single thread possible about Muhammad Ali has already been done. Positive or Negative. They've all been done.

There's nothing left to say about him.

I'd apologize if it weren't true.

gilgamesh wrote:I'd apologize if it weren't true.

Yes, there can only be threads where people worship the great yet overrated Clay.

Space Moutain wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I'd apologize if it weren't true.

Yes, there can only be threads where people worship the great yet overrated Clay.

I don't care if people don't like him, but when you come on here and make up lies about him just run him down obsessively the way Duce does it's just pathetic. He's certainly not my favorite Heavyweight of all time, hell he's not even my favorite Heavyweight of his own era, but I respect him.

If you think he's a terrible person, and deserved getting beaten up by Larry Holmes when he was shot then, good for you. We're all real proud.

Honestly I'd be fine if I never discussed Ali again for a long while, either in a Positive Light or Negative Light. Everything that can be said about him, has been said.

Everything that could be made up about him, has been made up.

Space Moutain wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I'd apologize if it weren't true.

Yes, there can only be threads where people worship the great yet overrated Clay.

Look Sparky, I'm going to make a request....you don't care for this fighter, so please gravitate to the threads where your sentiments can be shared with those who feel likewise. There are plenty to choose from. Otherwise I'm going to consider it trolling.

Those who are on the positive side of this equation would like to have space to chat. So let them have it.

Same goes for the vice versa's.

Plenty of room for all opinions. Just don't go antagonizing each other. It's not Cricket.

0:31 Ali tries to move away but the kid catches him with a hook
0:33 Ali looks hurt but tries to make a joke only to get clobbered again

Apparently the kid was being lined up for a title defence after the Spinks rematch but Ali wanted $10,000,000 so it fell through

Controversial wrote:0:31 Ali tries to move away but the kid catches him with a hook
0:33 Ali looks hurt but tries to make a joke only to get clobbered again

Apparently the kid was being lined up for a title defence after the Spinks rematch but Ali wanted $10,000,000 so it fell through

BoxBuzz wrote:

Space Moutain wrote:Yes, there can only be threads where people worship the great yet overrated Clay.

Look Sparky, I'm going to make a request....you don't care for this fighter, so please gravitate to the threads where your sentiments can be shared with those who feel likewise.

My thoughts exactly. I've seen his name popping up a number on times now in Ali threads, regurgitating the same old tired conspiracy lines as if they were somehow 'fact'.

It's one thing to not like Ali. But to feel the need to participate in every single Ali thread just to let everyone know that you don't like him, to try and make a big deal out of your dislike of Ali, again and again and again, is needy and childish. It's attention seeking at it's most tragic.

I have always had Muhammad ali as my #1 heavyweight, though I don't hold it against anyone who has Louis in that spot. For me Ali and Louis are pretty much interchangeable for the title of " best heavyweight." He basically fought all the best competitors who were around from the early 60's to the late 70's and wasn't afraid to give rematches. He beat at least two guys who make my top 10 and a myriad of others who are easily top 30-40. A great adapter in the ring. Outstanding generalship, durability, speed, skill and intangibles. While personality doesn't weigh into the equation of how good or bad an athlete is, he certainly added character to a sport that was in dire need of it. Probably one of the most charismatic figures of our time, and our lives are little bit richer because of him.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I have always had Muhammad ali as my #1 heavyweight, though I don't hold it against anyone who has Louis in that spot. For me Ali and Louis are pretty much interchangeable for the title of " best heavyweight." He basically fought all the best competitors who were around from the early 60's to the late 70's and wasn't afraid to give rematches. He beat at least two guys who make my top 10 and a myriad of others who are easily top 30-40. A great adapter in the ring. Outstanding generalship, durability, speed, skill and intangibles. While personality doesn't weigh into the equation of how good or bad an athlete is, he certainly added character to a sport that was in dire need of it. Probably one of the most charismatic figures of our time, and our lives are little bit richer because of him.

agree on all points but the highlighted one.
foreman II is among the biggest missing
fights in boxing history.

man wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I have always had Muhammad ali as my #1 heavyweight, though I don't hold it against anyone who has Louis in that spot. For me Ali and Louis are pretty much interchangeable for the title of " best heavyweight." He basically fought all the best competitors who were around from the early 60's to the late 70's and wasn't afraid to give rematches. He beat at least two guys who make my top 10 and a myriad of others who are easily top 30-40. A great adapter in the ring. Outstanding generalship, durability, speed, skill and intangibles. While personality doesn't weigh into the equation of how good or bad an athlete is, he certainly added character to a sport that was in dire need of it. Probably one of the most charismatic figures of our time, and our lives are little bit richer because of him.

agree on all points but the highlighted one.
foreman II is among the biggest missing
fights in boxing history.

yeah I kinda left that out and figured that someone would call me on it. But the reason I did, was because there really wasn't anything warranting a rematch due to the fact that Foreman had been beaten so decisively. There was no controversy ( okay well maybe some claim about ropes being too loose, ). No questionable decisions or anything that should have indicated that George got the shaft. On top of that, Foreman took 15 months off after kinsasha Zaire and never really made a full recovery in the scheme of the heavyweight picture. There will always be some who feel that Ali-Foreman II should have happened, but in my mind it doesn't hurt Muhammad's legacy a bit.. And if not rematching one opponent is the only thing that plagues him then I'd say he's better off than just about anyone we can think of. As for it being "one of the biggest missing fights in boxing history," it doesn't even come close to making that category. Certainly not on the level of Lewis vs Bowe, Dempsey vs Wills, Floyd vs Pac, etc, etc..

man wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I have always had Muhammad ali as my #1 heavyweight, though I don't hold it against anyone who has Louis in that spot. For me Ali and Louis are pretty much interchangeable for the title of " best heavyweight." He basically fought all the best competitors who were around from the early 60's to the late 70's and wasn't afraid to give rematches. He beat at least two guys who make my top 10 and a myriad of others who are easily top 30-40. A great adapter in the ring. Outstanding generalship, durability, speed, skill and intangibles. While personality doesn't weigh into the equation of how good or bad an athlete is, he certainly added character to a sport that was in dire need of it. Probably one of the most charismatic figures of our time, and our lives are little bit richer because of him.

agree on all points but the highlighted one.
foreman II is among the biggest missing
fights in boxing history.

It never happened because there was no need for it. Ali beat him up and stopped him and there was no great clamour among boxing fans for a rematch. Ali fought Frazier and Norton in rematches because those fights were all close and competitive. Ali exposed George's limitations just like he said he would prior to the fight and George subsequently did nothing to show that he improved his skills enough to cause any great demand for a rematch.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:yeah I kinda left that out and figured that someone would call me on it. But the reason I did, was because there really wasn't anything warranting a rematch due to the fact that Foreman had been beaten so decisively. There was no controversy ( okay well maybe some claim about ropes being too loose, ). No questionable decisions or anything that should have indicated that George got the shaft. On top of that, Foreman took 15 months off after kinsasha Zaire and never really made a full recovery in the scheme of the heavyweight picture. There will always be some who feel that Ali-Foreman II should have happened, but in my mind it doesn't hurt Muhammad's legacy a bit.. And if not rematching one opponent is the only thing that plagues him then I'd say he's better off than just about anyone we can think of. As for it being "one of the biggest missing fights in boxing history," it doesn't even come close to making that category. Certainly not on the level of Lewis vs Bowe, Dempsey vs Wills, Floyd vs Pac, etc, etc..

i again basically agree. really, i only have these
tiny issues with what you say. i agree that he beat
foreman fair and square, but on the other hand,
george was koed because he had punched himself
out. he would have lost anyways, but to me this was
not uncontroversial. foreman did beat the count and
it was the end of the round. plus he went into the
fight with an "0" and had totally dominated his three
title bouts, two by koing HoF heavyweights within
four rounds - combined. so he deserved some credit
and from my viewpoint a rematch.

but of course you are totally right in pointing at george's
weird break after the fight.

all in all i second your thinking on ali giving rematches
and going for the best available contender.

man wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:yeah I kinda left that out and figured that someone would call me on it. But the reason I did, was because there really wasn't anything warranting a rematch due to the fact that Foreman had been beaten so decisively. There was no controversy ( okay well maybe some claim about ropes being too loose, ). No questionable decisions or anything that should have indicated that George got the shaft. On top of that, Foreman took 15 months off after kinsasha Zaire and never really made a full recovery in the scheme of the heavyweight picture. There will always be some who feel that Ali-Foreman II should have happened, but in my mind it doesn't hurt Muhammad's legacy a bit.. And if not rematching one opponent is the only thing that plagues him then I'd say he's better off than just about anyone we can think of. As for it being "one of the biggest missing fights in boxing history," it doesn't even come close to making that category. Certainly not on the level of Lewis vs Bowe, Dempsey vs Wills, Floyd vs Pac, etc, etc..

i again basically agree. really, i only have these
tiny issues with what you say. i agree that he beat
foreman fair and square, but on the other hand,
george was koed because he had punched himself
out. he would have lost anyways, but to me this was
not uncontroversial. foreman did beat the count and
it was the end of the round. plus he went into the
fight with an "0" and had totally dominated his three
title bouts, two by koing HoF heavyweights within
four rounds - combined. so he deserved some credit
and from my viewpoint a rematch.

but of course you are totally right in pointing at george's
weird break after the fight.

all in all i second your thinking on ali giving rematches
and going for the best available contender.

Fair enough

The Great John L wrote:It never happened because there was no need for it. Ali beat him up and stopped him and there was no great clamour among boxing fans for a rematch. Ali fought Frazier and Norton in rematches because those fights were all close and competitive. Ali exposed George's limitations just like he said he would prior to the fight and George subsequently did nothing to show that he improved his skills enough to cause any great demand for a rematch.

i see your point, but maybe our knowledge has
something to do with it. imagine wilder beating
wlad by TKO2, then fury by TKO1 and after that
haye by TKO2. that is pretty much george going
into the ali-fight. now assume that after that
wilder gets koed by vitali coming out of retirement.
deontay not looking convincing and gassing after 7
results in him being taken out.

i would definitely want to see a rematch.

but i have a funny stance here, since i can totally
see and respect your view ... :) ...

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali

Hopefully someone will enlighten us with something new.

Maybe discuss the beating he took by Kent Green, or the one-sided loss to Percy Price.

As I mentioned on another thread, I too take amateur outcomes into consideration when weighing out a fighter's whole career. But using poor performance when one had as a teenager is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

man wrote:

The Great John L wrote:It never happened because there was no need for it. Ali beat him up and stopped him and there was no great clamour among boxing fans for a rematch. Ali fought Frazier and Norton in rematches because those fights were all close and competitive. Ali exposed George's limitations just like he said he would prior to the fight and George subsequently did nothing to show that he improved his skills enough to cause any great demand for a rematch.

i see your point, but maybe our knowledge has
something to do with it. imagine wilder beating
wlad by TKO2, then fury by TKO1 and after that
haye by TKO2. that is pretty much george going
into the ali-fight. now assume that after that
wilder gets koed by vitali coming out of retirement.
deontay not looking convincing and gassing after 7
results in him being taken out.

i would definitely want to see a rematch.

but i have a funny stance here, since i can totally
see and respect your view ... :) ...

While that might seem logical, the public was more interested in Ali fighting the guys who gave him difficult and competitive fights, and despite some post fight clamor from George and his handlers, there was absolutely no controversy about the ending of the fight. While George did barely beat the 10 count, he had beaten pretty thoroughly and the refs call was appropriate.

Frazier had beaten Ali, was a very popular undefeated and undisputed HW champ and a big favorite against Foreman, yet there was no great clamor for George to grant Frazier a rematch for the same reason.

guys if you don't mind we can close this thread.
i just started it to make the point that it must be
possible to talk about this great boxer on this
great forum.

thnx to those who participated in a civilized debate.

but thnx as well to those who held back with what
would have turned this into another of the all too
well known threads about this very subject.

The Great John L wrote:While that might seem logical, the public was more interested in Ali fighting the guys who gave him difficult and competitive fights, and despite some post fight clamor from George and his handlers, there was absolutely no controversy about the ending of the fight. While George did barely beat the 10 count, he had beaten pretty thoroughly and the refs call was appropriate.

Frazier had beaten Ali, was a very popular undefeated and undisputed HW champ and a big favorite against Foreman, yet there was no great clamor for George to grant Frazier a rematch for the same reason.

good points! but i felt george lost against ali
mostly because of overconfidence. it simply
had not occurred to him that someone would
not fall apart after being hit. i saw him fight
a non-intelligent fight and the end came with
him being punched out. very different from
how frazier was totally outclassed IMHO.

but for the point on the stoppage. well he did
beat the count, it was the end of the round
and he was the defending, undisputed, unbeaten
champion. the only reason IMHO why there
was no outcry was ali being bambi, who had
not only survived, but beaten the ugly beast.