BoxRec

Fwank doesn't seem to be hitting the heights of his peak years as a promoter, when he always put on the biggest shows in the country almost every year. Obviously he's now got his own TV station to run and pay for.

Eddie is staging the country's biggest ever show (judging by bums on seats), and is far more mainstream.

Both guys have their plus and minus points. Fwank seems to investing more in overseas shows to provide product for his channel, instead of frequent British shows. I don't see an obvious cross-over star in his stable. Eddie has got Sky behind him and has got several potential cross-over stars, having signed some top notch Olympians.

Fwank's next copperbox show is a month away and it doesn't have the main fights announced yet. We thought it would be another Chisora / Fury double header, to lead into their proposed summer clash but it's gone quiet. Lots of empty seats at the last copperbox show, and at his Liverpool show. His TV channel lost five million quid the year before last, and three million last year. Can he keep going, and is his stable much good ?

Eddie's been walking on water for a while but his upcoming Liverpool show has a very one-sided bill, as another poster said over the weekend, you can pick ever winner already. Yet, with today's media frenzy over Froch/Groves 2, he is again breaking into the mainstream media and setting the agenda. Fwank seems more on the sidelines than ever.

The point of the thread is to question if the divide between them is getting wider ? You sense glory ahead for the likes of Luke Campbell and Anthony Joshua, but you look at Fwank's stable and there doesn't seem to be a lot of depth really. He has some good ticket sellers and he knows how to steer guys, but has he become - due to funding his TV station - a champions league winner calibre manager, stuck managing a 2nd division team ?

Eddie is winning the domestic battle, no doubt about it.

The real test for Eddie will be when he has to build his own talent from scratch, rather than poaching established talent from the other British promoters. Even some of the young amateur talent he's signed like Luke Campbell and Anthony Joshua had a fair level of exposure prior to turning pro due to the Olympics and various TV appearances.

Having the backing of Sky gives a huge advantage, lets be honest.

chad wrote:Eddie is winning the domestic battle, no doubt about it.

The real test for Eddie will be when he has to build his own talent from scratch, rather than poaching established talent from the other British promoters. Even some of the young amateur talent he's signed like Luke Campbell and Anthony Joshua had a fair level of exposure prior to turning pro due to the Olympics and various TV appearances.

Agreed. And I doubt Campbell and Joshua will spend their entire promotional lives with Matchroom. It will be interesting when contract renewal time comes around.

For now it possibly is, but if Groves sparks Froch, Eddie is left without a world champion and has no experience of guiding a fighter to one. The current situation was always likely while allegedly got going, if Fwank can get it turning a profit and make it work financially, he's in a very strong position because he has full control over TV dates and revenue.

allegedly has the most uk shows ive ever seen it over the last few months so its getting better and better

columbo wrote:Having the backing of Sky gives a huge advantage, lets be honest.

Indeed it does. I wonder if Fwank is finding owning his own channel all he thought it would be ? A lot of boxers have left him, and the small exposure on BN must be a big factor in that.

On the other hand, the only other game in town is Sky sports. Channel 5 gets the most viewers but I don't think Hennessey is rolling in it from the money they pay.

Wasn't there a time in the 90's when Fwank was on a 7 digit fee as Sky's boxing advisor ? Channel 5 have got Bob Ajisafe in their main event this Saturday, I bet their boxing advisor hasn't even heard of boxrec

expe wrote:For now it possibly is, but if Groves sparks Froch, Eddie is left without a world champion and has no experience of guiding a fighter to one. The current situation was always likely while allegedly got going, if Fwank can get it turning a profit and make it work financially, he's in a very strong position because he has full control over TV dates and revenue.

What does that control give him though Expe - other than less stress on the organisational front ? What strength does it give him ? I struggle to come up with an answer for that. I know the freedom means a lot to him and he loves being in charge of his own destiny and dates, but I can't see what difference it has made to the business of putting on shows.

For a long time, Fwank was the top promoter by a country mile. You really do need the top fighters to be in that position. Fwank had Naz, Calzaghe, and Hatton - he handled them brilliantly, and they put him at the top and kept him there.

I just look at the stable now and think he's not got the strength in depth. Chisora is as good as he is going to get I think, Butler is class but the smaller weights don't usually draw big crowds. He's got some good fighters and can put on some really good shows but at the moment Eddie is running away with it.

JimJim2009 wrote: Agreed. And I doubt Campbell and Joshua will spend their entire promotional lives with Matchroom. It will be interesting when contract renewal time comes around.

What has been interesting is watching British fighters joining international promoters over the past 12 months. David Price moving to Sauerland, Anthony Ogogo turning pro with Golden Boy and Martin Murray joining up a few days ago with Golden Gloves. We've had fighters leaving allegedly to go to SKY and Matchroom fighters moving over to B0xnati0n.

How long do Joshua and Campbell have left on their contracts? Joshua is getting massive exposure on SKY but the issue of not getting quality sparring keeps on coming up time and time again.

columbo wrote:Having the backing of Sky gives a huge advantage, lets be honest.

This pretty much sums the point up.

allegedly shows just need to be promoted a little better and ATM he doesn't have a big name who can headline a card. I think things are looking brighter for allegedly though. With the likes of Tyson/Hughie fury and more recently Chris Eubank jr.

It's a shame Allegedley didn't sigh Murray or Price recently as I think they could of headlined the Liverpool shows.

JimJim2009 wrote: I just look at the stable now and think he's not got the strength in depth. Chisora is as good as he is going to get I think, Butler is class but the smaller weights don't usually draw big crowds. He's got some good fighters and can put on some really good shows but at the moment Eddie is running away with it.

Got to agree.

The thing is when you compare the stables of "SKY Sports" and "B0xnati0n" the gulf on paper doesn't seem to be as big. Still slanted towards SKY but B0xnati0n do have a stable capable of putting on some must watch shows.

SKY Sports:

Carl Froch, Scott Quigg, Ricky Burns, Kell Brook, Anthony Joshua, Jamie McDonnell, Brian Rose, Tony Bellew, Luke Campbell, Lee Selby, Stephen Smith, Anthony Crolla, Kevin Mitchell, Gavin Rees, Lee Purdy, Rocky Fielding, John Ryder, Erick Ochieng, Callum Smith, Scotty Cardle, Wadi Camacho, Kal Yafai, Martin Ward, Greg Proska and Ryan Aston

B0xnati0n:

Tyson Fury, Hughie Fury, Dereck Chisora, Carl Frampton, Stuart Hall, Nathan Cleverly, Enzo Maccarinelli, Billy Joe Saunders, Liam Walsh, Chris Eubank Jr, Liam Smith, Frankie Gavin, Paul Butler, Frank Buglioni, Tony Conquest, Joe Selkirk, Bradley Skeete, Bradley Saunders, Thomas Stalker, Derry Matthews, Kevin Satchell plus about another 10 or so fighters in the very early stages of their pro careers.

JimJim2009 wrote:

columbo wrote:Having the backing of Sky gives a huge advantage, lets be honest.

Indeed it does. I wonder if Fwank is finding owning his own channel all he thought it would be ? A lot of boxers have left him, and the small exposure on BN must be a big factor in that.

On the other hand, the only other game in town is Sky sports. Channel 5 gets the most viewers but I don't think Hennessey is rolling in it from the money they pay.

Wasn't there a time in the 90's when Fwank was on a 7 digit fee as Sky's boxing advisor ? Channel 5 have got Bob Ajisafe in their main event this Saturday, I bet their boxing advisor hasn't even heard of boxrec

The sky element is so important because for instance take this rematch with Froch and Groves. It's getting constantly talked about on Sky news and sky sports news which in turn lures the casuals in. allegedly has fornicate all in that regard, because unless you already have the channel you're not getting the exposure from it.I think in hindsight it wasnt a smart move from Frank. No doubt he enjoys the autonomy of it and so on but it's a bloody tough slog it would seem.

columbo wrote: The sky element is so important because for instance take this rematch with Froch and Groves. It's getting constantly talked about on Sky news and sky sports news which in turn lures the casuals in. allegedly has eff all in that regard, because unless you already have the channel you're not getting the exposure from it.I think in hindsight it wasnt a smart move from Frank. No doubt he enjoys the autonomy of it and so on but it's a bloody tough slog it would seem.

Really good point. So who is the top promoter in the UK? Is it Eddie Hearn or SKY themselves? The more I think about it I've got to say it's SKY. Eddie puts the shows together, and does great work on Twitter and YouTube thanks to iFL, however it's SKY through SKY Sports News, Ringside, the SKY Sports website, Toe to Toe, their Twitter and Facebook pages and adverts across all SKY branded channels who are really promoting the shows. Fr&nk allegedly simply doesn't have the same level of exposure or support.

Matchroom are way ahead of allegedly lot, frank hasn't got any stars left anymore and most of his fighters are either too boring for tv or not good enough to make headlines like froch groves has. Fury will destroy Chisora in the summer and Cleverly won't reach the top again. Hennessy will get by with Fury, Degale and Galahad and this new tournament thing.

Frank isn't really much of a promoter at the minute, he tries and does what he can, but let's be honest it isn't great. He is doing a fantastic job of being a boxing channel though for however long it lasts.

JimJim2009 wrote:

chad wrote:Eddie is winning the domestic battle, no doubt about it.

The real test for Eddie will be when he has to build his own talent from scratch, rather than poaching established talent from the other British promoters. Even some of the young amateur talent he's signed like Luke Campbell and Anthony Joshua had a fair level of exposure prior to turning pro due to the Olympics and various TV appearances.

Agreed. And I doubt Campbell and Joshua will spend their entire promotional lives with Matchroom. It will be interesting when contract renewal time comes around.

Campbell could. Joshua? Never, especially if he goes all the way.

DMA1987 wrote:Frank isn't really much of a promoter at the minute, he tries and does what he can, but let's be honest it isn't great. He is doing a fantastic job of being a boxing channel though for however long it lasts.

Agreed. I think there's a shift in his methodology, whereby its cheaper and less hassle to buy overseas shows and put Bunce in the studio to provide coverage between fights, than to promote UK shows himself. Credit where it is due, he is doing an absolutely fantastic job with allegedly. You can have a minor grumble here and there about the finer detail, but overall having a dedicated boxing channel is brilliant and I hope it lasts and prospers.

I don't think for one minute that Matchroom's star prospects will stay with Matchroom forever, sooner or later regardless of the deal on offer, they'll want more (happens to most fighters as they progress to the top), and as another poster has noted, more and more British boxers are signing with overseas promoters. If that trend continues, and if Matchroom's shine fades in time, then we may get to a situation whereby your stable is less important than your TV channel, in which case owning and running your own puts you back on top. But for as long as Sky back Matchroom, they are likely to remain top dog.

Or, as a poster has said, really the top British promoter is Sky. That's a good observation

lillywhite14 wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:

chad wrote:Eddie is winning the domestic battle, no doubt about it.

The real test for Eddie will be when he has to build his own talent from scratch, rather than poaching established talent from the other British promoters. Even some of the young amateur talent he's signed like Luke Campbell and Anthony Joshua had a fair level of exposure prior to turning pro due to the Olympics and various TV appearances.

Agreed. And I doubt Campbell and Joshua will spend their entire promotional lives with Matchroom. It will be interesting when contract renewal time comes around.

Campbell could. Joshua? Never, especially if he goes all the way.

Did you see that Ifilm london interview where Joshua was asking lots of questions regarding promoting? I get a strong feeling that he'll go it alone once he hit's the big time.

No way Joshua leaves Eddie

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Joshua has a manager, promoter and trainer all taking a cut of his purses. At this stage of his career, the purses are - relatively speaking - insignificant. If he becomes a very hot property and starts bulldozing his way through to the world stage, I can foresee the calculator coming out when he's at home and wondering how much of the proposed big purses he'll be left with after all those deductions. This is nothing against Joshua - it happens to most boxers who reach the top, and I would probably be no different myself.

When Fwank was doing very well out of Prince Naz, he bought him an Aston Martin. Instead of thinking "thank you very much", Naz's reaction was "he must be making a fortune out of me". Again, entirely understandable.

JimJim2009 wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:Agreed. I think there's a shift in his methodology, whereby its cheaper and less hassle to buy overseas shows and put Bunce in the studio to provide coverage between fights, than to promote UK shows himself. Credit where it is due, he is doing an absolutely fantastic job with allegedly. You can have a minor grumble here and there about the finer detail, but overall having a dedicated boxing channel is brilliant and I hope it lasts and prospers. :

There was a Copper Box show and a York Hall show in February. There's been an Aintree Bill so far in March and there's a Newcastle bill at the end of the month. There's a Copper Box show in the second week in April.

chad wrote: SKY Sports:
Carl Froch, Kell Brook, Anthony Joshua,

B0xnati0n:
Tyson Fury, Hughie Fury, Dereck Chisora, Chris Eubank Jr, Frankie Gavin,

Edited to show the fighters I would actually tune in to watch as any sort of draw and even then some of these guys are undercard fighters. I was tempted to bung in people like Kevin Mitchell, but he's shown long ago he can't really cut it at a decent level.

Really, it's just Froch, Brook, Tyson, Dereck. In probably that order, if Brook started getting some better opponents and winning.

Fury only with allegedly for 2 more fights. If he does the unthinkable and beats Klitschko he will go to Sky Box Office. Tyson Fury vs Anthony Joshua will be on Sky Box Office sometime in 2015 early 2016.

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:Agreed. I think there's a shift in his methodology, whereby its cheaper and less hassle to buy overseas shows and put Bunce in the studio to provide coverage between fights, than to promote UK shows himself. Credit where it is due, he is doing an absolutely fantastic job with allegedly. You can have a minor grumble here and there about the finer detail, but overall having a dedicated boxing channel is brilliant and I hope it lasts and prospers. :

There was a Copper Box show and a York Hall show in February. There's been an Aintree Bill so far in March and there's a Newcastle bill at the end of the month. There's a Copper Box show in the second week in April.

And they were all crap.

(just kidding)

If you took the best of all those shows, and put them into one single show, that's the sort of show Fwank used to stage in his heyday