BoxRec

I decided to give Robin the platform to respond to the journalists who referred to him as the "world's worst boxer."

http://www.BS.com/deakin-respo ... alk--75583

Good little interview .
I actually look forward to watching robin box as he always gives it 100%.
like he says, just walking was an achievement, so having a decent amateur career and being a testing journeyman shows the guys determination !!

jessi wrote:Good little interview .
I actually look forward to watching robin box as he always gives it 100%.
like he says, just walking was an achievement, so having a decent amateur career and being a testing journeyman shows the guys determination !!

Exactly, he should be proud of what he has achieved with his disability. It's a pity that these journalists judge him without knowing the facts.

I speak to Robin quite a bit, he's as Mad as they come lol Use to do a lot of sparring with him when he turned over he's a good fella and could get some wins... He ain't as bad as his record, he gives it a go in every fight..

Londonirish wrote:I speak to Robin quite a bit, he's as Mad as they come lol Use to do a lot of sparring with him when he turned over he's a good fella and could get some wins... He ain't as bad as his record, he gives it a go in every fight..

He isn't as bad as his record suggests, but he does have something of a victim complex. On that York Hall GDA show, he was the house fighter, but lost to an import with a 0-11 record and he didn't win a round.

I know his story and fully understand the importance of journeymen, but because he always tries to have a go, he gets stopped too often and has never really learnt the art of covering up and surviving like the better journeymen do. Most journeymen are capable of getting a win, either by turning over a prospect, or being matched in an easy fight designed to get them a win to keep the board happy, Robin hasn't done that, there's been very few cases of him being robbed and he hasn't beaten a single prospect, when he has tried to get a win, like he did against Ryan Taylor, a fight in which he had Taylor on the floor, he's still come up short and the lads he's been fighting haven't been special either, most haven't gone onto do anything special and haven't been expected to either, Ryan Walsh and Jon Kays have won English titles and boxed for British and Commonwealth titles, Crolla and Stephen Smith have both gone on to have excellent careers, but he fought them 5 or 6 years ago. He was given a golden opportunity to get a win a couple of weeks ago, fighting at home, as the house fighter, against a Polish lad who had lost all 11 of his previous fights, he managed a share of one round and lost the other three, sometimes you have to know when you're beaten.

On the subject of journeymen, do we actually over-state the need for them? I get that the guys who take a fight on a day or twos notice and puts up a fight IS a credit to the sport, but those who don't have the ability to test guys...are they...really useful?...

Boxing Prospect wrote:On the subject of journeymen, do we actually over-state the need for them? I get that the guys who take a fight on a day or twos notice and puts up a fight IS a credit to the sport, but those who don't have the ability to test guys...are they...really useful?...

How else are prospects going to get acquainted with the transition from amateur to pro code? Do you think managers will start matching prospect v prospect as soon as they turn pro?

Mickey Duff and others have proved over the years the value of using journeymen to ease top prospects into the pro game. Saying that, I don't like to see a card with a long list of prospect v journeyman, but they are essential to pro boxing.

PS. enjoyed the Deakin article, I have seen him fight a few times - he deserves respect not abuse from these weasle, pot bellied red top hacks.

I read that article and I must say, as a ex journeyman with by no means a great record. Not even close to being a good record, I was massively offended. Robin has been a good fight for many young winning fighters. He doesn't help himself at times with some comments but really didnt deserve that kind of write up in the national press. Knowing deakin. He will pull that journo if he sees him and I guarantee he'll backtrack sharpish. Shamefull writeup to be honest

What benefit does a "prospect" get out of beating someone with a 1-53 record (or whatever he has). To me that serves no purpose as to when said prospect actually moves up in class.

johnnygreaves wrote:I read that article and I must say, as a ex journeyman with by no means a great record. Not even close to being a good record, I was massively offended. Robin has been a good fight for many young winning fighters. He doesn't help himself at times with some comments but really didnt deserve that kind of write up in the national press. Knowing deakin. He will pull that journo if he sees him and I guarantee he'll backtrack sharpish. Shamefull writeup to be honest

Well said Johnny. Robin has tried to contact the journalist in question to no avail. He even visited the head office of the newspaper in question. Whether the board were right to remove Robin's license is up for debate. However, he does not deserve this kind of abuse from ill-informed journalists who have little to no knowledge about boxing. I have never seen Rod Liddle at a grass roots small hall boxing event. In fact I have never seen him at a major event and I've regularly been attending shows for over a decade. He had another pop at Robin in his column yesterday.

gasman wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:On the subject of journeymen, do we actually over-state the need for them? I get that the guys who take a fight on a day or twos notice and puts up a fight IS a credit to the sport, but those who don't have the ability to test guys...are they...really useful?...

How else are prospects going to get acquainted with the transition from amateur to pro code? Do you think managers will start matching prospect v prospect as soon as they turn pro?

Mickey Duff and others have proved over the years the value of using journeymen to ease top prospects into the pro game. Saying that, I don't like to see a card with a long list of prospect v journeyman, but they are essential to pro boxing.

PS. enjoyed the Deakin article, I have seen him fight a few times - he deserves respect not abuse from these weasle, pot bellied red top hacks.

Duff and co did use journeymen to ease fighters, sure, but then again for every Duff, Warren or Hearn success there has also been failures. I don't see the likes of the Inoue brothers feasting on "professional losers", or Ryota Murata, Kazuto Ioka has done fairly well without the need to fight a string on "no hopers".

Don't need to be prospect v prospect fights but prospect v international opponents who come to win rather than guys going through the motions or just surviving. The lack of competition leads to bad habits, and over confidence

A journeyman (Andrew Patterson) once suggested that prospects who reach a record of 5-0 should be only allowed to face opponents with winning records. I.e. after their first five fights they can no longer face journeymen. What do you think about this suggestion?

The Law wrote:A journeyman (Andrew Patterson) once suggested that prospects who reach a record of 5-0 should be only allowed to face opponents with winning records. I.e. after their first five fights they can no longer face journeymen. What do you think about this suggestion?

What can only fight fighters coming of a win or with more wins than loses ?
But either way, I don't like the idea, it gives journeyman less work and 5 fights is nothing, having a tough contest with a good journeyman on your 7th 8th or 9th fight is still an education, if it was 10-0 I could understand !

jessi wrote:

The Law wrote:A journeyman (Andrew Patterson) once suggested that prospects who reach a record of 5-0 should be only allowed to face opponents with winning records. I.e. after their first five fights they can no longer face journeymen. What do you think about this suggestion?

What can only fight fighters coming of a win or with more wins than loses ?
But either way, I don't like the idea, it gives journeyman less work and 5 fights is nothing, having a tough contest with a good journeyman on your 7th 8th or 9th fight is still an education, if it was 10-0 I could understand !

More wins than losses. You can tweak Andrew's idea if you want. 10-0 might be more plausible. I'm not for or against the idea, I'm merely attempting to trigger thought.

But you can bring in a guy from Bulgaria or somewhre with a winning record, he'll be cheaper than a British journeyman too, but he'll probably go over at the first decent shot becsuse he's racked up his wins in a lower class of boxing. Its not just about numbers in the wins and losses column, its about what an opponent brings to the fight. Most british journeyman bring toughness and durability. Some bring a lot more than that.

Junker wrote:But you can bring in a guy from Bulgaria or somewhre with a winning record, he'll be cheaper than a British journeyman too, but he'll probably go over at the first decent shot becsuse he's racked up his wins in a lower class of boxing. Its not just about numbers in the wins and losses column, its about what an opponent brings to the fight. Most british journeyman bring toughness and durability. Some bring a lot more than that.

Good point. We've had some very poor imports with winning records in recent years. It would be great to have British prospects facing fellow British prospects after say 5 or 10 fights but I can't see that working for various reasons. Therefore what options are there to successfully replace the need for journeymen? Should they be replaced or does the current system work? Maybe there could be a maximum number of journeymen on a given show to prevent numerous lopsided fights? I'm just thinking out loud.

to be honest I don't think you can talk about replacing the need for journeymen without revolutionising the whole business of boxing. While it still operates on home and away fighters / ticket sales etc it will always stay the same. If you've got a lad who turns over and can sell 500 tickets a time, the last thing you want is for him to get disheartened and quit. Pro boxing isn't really a sport like any other. In some ways it isn't like a sport at all. Whoever it was who called it 'showbusiness with blood' had it about right.

The Law wrote:

johnnygreaves wrote:I read that article and I must say, as a ex journeyman with by no means a great record. Not even close to being a good record, I was massively offended. Robin has been a good fight for many young winning fighters. He doesn't help himself at times with some comments but really didnt deserve that kind of write up in the national press. Knowing deakin. He will pull that journo if he sees him and I guarantee he'll backtrack sharpish. Shamefull writeup to be honest

Well said Johnny. Robin has tried to contact the journalist in question to no avail. He even visited the head office of the newspaper in question. Whether the board were right to remove Robin's license is up for debate. However, he does not deserve this kind of abuse from ill-informed journalists who have little to no knowledge about boxing. I have never seen Rod Liddle at a grass roots small hall boxing event. In fact I have never seen him at a major event and I've regularly been attending shows for over a decade. He had another pop at Robin in his column yesterday.

I know another boxer who was warned off boxing professional after a an article in the Daily Star - the Boxing Board felt he was taking the piss and threatened him/ took away his licence.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

gasman wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:On the subject of journeymen, do we actually over-state the need for them? I get that the guys who take a fight on a day or twos notice and puts up a fight IS a credit to the sport, but those who don't have the ability to test guys...are they...really useful?...

How else are prospects going to get acquainted with the transition from amateur to pro code? Do you think managers will start matching prospect v prospect as soon as they turn pro?

Mickey Duff and others have proved over the years the value of using journeymen to ease top prospects into the pro game. Saying that, I don't like to see a card with a long list of prospect v journeyman, but they are essential to pro boxing.

PS. enjoyed the Deakin article, I have seen him fight a few times - he deserves respect not abuse from these weasle, pot bellied red top hacks.

Duff and co did use journeymen to ease fighters, sure, but then again for every Duff, Warren or Hearn success there has also been failures. I don't see the likes of the Inoue brothers feasting on "professional losers", or Ryota Murata, Kazuto Ioka has done fairly well without the need to fight a string on "no hopers".

Don't need to be prospect v prospect fights but prospect v international opponents who come to win rather than guys going through the motions or just surviving. The lack of competition leads to bad habits, and over confidence

A journeyman covers a spectrum of fighters - I think I read last year, Ron Borges refer to Kevin Johnson as a journeyman. It also depends on the quality of a prospect i.e. star Olympian turning pro or a modest amateur - both 'prospects' will need to be matched differently. I would agree with you if say, a top guy like Joshua is fed 10 1-50 journeymen, he clearly needs stepped up quicker, but overall, I can't see the role of journeymen disappearing any time soon - they are needed to blood new fighters and save last minute withdrawals etc.

gasman wrote: A journeyman covers a spectrum of fighters - I think I read last year, Ron Borges refer to Kevin Johnson as a journeyman. It also depends on the quality of a prospect i.e. star Olympian turning pro or a modest amateur - both 'prospects' will need to be matched differently. I would agree with you if say, a top guy like Joshua is fed 10 1-50 journeymen, he clearly needs stepped up quicker, but overall, I can't see the role of journeymen disappearing any time soon - they are needed to blood new fighters and save last minute withdrawals etc.

That's a fair point, a journeyman and a journeyman are different things. I tend to think of "professional losers" as journeymen and not just fighters who travel. I'd not view Johnriel Casimero as a journeyman champion.

Full agree that they fit the purpose of last minute withdrawals and that should be their big use, not filling out half a card.