BoxRec

Any thoughts on this fight?

I've read that it was thought that Joe gave up or threw the fight. I think Marciano on form was a murderous puncher and Joe felt it again early and just called it a day. The knockout punch in the first match was one of the best ever thrown. (Not the one when Joe was down)

The second Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott was a fixed fight.

Walcott had floored Marciano and was leading on all the cards in their first bout when Marciano scored a one-punch knockout. Many at the time viewed it as a lucky punch.

The Jim Norris-led IBC – which controlled boxing at the time – felt they had a star in the young Marciano and they wanted to build him up. Rocky Marciano’s manager, Al Weill, was also conveniently the matchmaker for the IBC. Walcott was one of the IBC’s original fighters. (He signed on when Joe Louis retired.)

The rematch was held at Chicago Stadium – the heart of the IBC. (Jim Norris owned Chicago Stadium.) Norris also promoted all the Gillette Friday Night Fights.

Marciano-Walcott II aired live on the Friday Night Fights. Eyebrows were raised before the fight when it was announced that Walcott, the challenger, was being paid nearly double ($250,000) than what the champ Marciano would earn. That didn't seem to make sense to anyone.

That figure caused even a bigger stink when Walcott rolled over in the first from a punch most didn't see and somehow “missed” the count – getting up a second too late. Thousands of people in the audience began yelling “Fix” almost immediately. I have newspaper reports from the day after where none of the reporters at ringside saw the punch and reported that the crowd was raging -- all chanting fix. Walcott wept in the ring before he left, he was so humiliated.

In fact, since the main event ended early and the broadcast still had time to fill, the swing-bout was televised featuring Oakland Billy Smith and Billy Noble. And long after Marciano and Walcott had left, fans were still so vocal in believing the Marciano fight had a been a fix, that you could barely hear Ben Bentley introduce Smith and Noble. Here's that fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beQPjh2woXA

The noise was so loud that the announcers on the TV broadcast (ran by Norris) had to talk about it. And they tried to explain that Walcott “maybe” wasn’t clear. But they also said during the Smith fight that a loudspeaker was picking up the count in the Stadium so the fighters could hear over the crowd noise.

It was clearly a fix to all who were there - fans, reporters, TV announcers -- and an embarrassment. Of course, when the fight was shown on television after that (I believe the first time it was re-aired it was on Marciano's TV show) only the Big Fights version was aired - with the live call, the fans booing, and all that "nonsense" edited out.

No fix here. Move along. Nothing to see here. Buy Gillette razors.

Dubblechin wrote:The second Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott was a fixed fight.

Walcott had floored Marciano and was leading on all the cards in their first bout when Marciano scored a one-punch knockout. Many at the time viewed it as a lucky punch.

The Jim Norris-led IBC – which controlled boxing at the time – felt they had a star in the young Marciano and they wanted to build him up. Rocky Marciano’s manager, Al Weill, was also conveniently the matchmaker for the IBC. Walcott was one of the IBC’s original fighters. (He signed on when Joe Louis retired.)

The rematch was held at Chicago Stadium – the heart of the IBC. (Jim Norris owned Chicago Stadium.) Norris also promoted all the Gillette Friday Night Fights.

Marciano-Walcott II aired live on the Friday Night Fights. Eyebrows were raised before the fight when it was announced that Walcott, the challenger, was being paid nearly double ($250,000) than what the champ Marciano would earn. That didn't seem to make sense to anyone.

That figure caused even a bigger stink when Walcott rolled over in the first from a punch most didn't see and somehow “missed” the count – getting up a second too late. Thousands of people in the audience began yelling “Fix” almost immediately. I have newspaper reports from the day after where none of the reporters at ringside saw the punch and reported that the crowd was raging -- all chanting fix. Walcott wept in the ring before he left, he was so humiliated.

In fact, since the main event ended early and the broadcast still had time to fill, the swing-bout was televised featuring Oakland Billy Smith and Billy Noble. And long after Marciano and Walcott had left, fans were still so vocal in believing the Marciano fight had a been a fix, that you could barely hear Ben Bentley introduce Smith and Noble. Here's that fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beQPjh2woXA

The noise was so loud that the announcers on the TV broadcast (ran by Norris) had to talk about it. And they tried to explain that Walcott “maybe” wasn’t clear. But they also said during the Smith fight that a loudspeaker was picking up the count in the Stadium so the fighters could hear over the crowd noise.

It was clearly a fix to all who were there - fans, reporters, TV announcers -- and an embarrassment. Of course, when the fight was shown on television after that (I believe the first time it was re-aired it was on Marciano's TV show) only the Big Fights version was aired - with the live call, the fans booing, and all that "nonsense" edited out.

No fix here. Move along. Nothing to see here. Buy Gillette razors.

Wow. Never heard that JJW wept in the ring.

btw, thanks for the link for the fight that followed. The commentary was interesting.

No one saw the punch?

Well Walcott probably didn't but the fight is there on Youtube and the punch is visible.

The count looked a bit quick but apart from that I can't see any problems.

Yes, the punch is clearly visible on the Youtube clip.
Agreed, the count was fast though. Walcott was only down for 7 or 8 seconds and he didn't look that hurt when he got up.

To me there were some things that just seemed odd. By themselves, it would be that strange, but add them up and it looks fishy.
1. Walcott was not throwing hardly any punches. He was doing a lot of clinching. Not that strange in the first round of a fight, but Walcott usually didn't clinch a lot. By itself, not a big deal.

2. Walcott clearly seemed like he could get up from the knockdown. (It has been suggested that he was temporarily dazed, but that really doesn't seem to be the case.)

3. Notice that after he gets up after he is counted out. He walks around calmly for a while. Then all of a sudden he starts complaining about the officiating.
Why wasn't he complaining right away?
It's almost as if he suddenly remembered that he should have been complaining.

It does look fishy.

Ambling Alp II wrote:To me there were some things that just seemed odd. By themselves, it would be that strange, but add them up and it looks fishy.
1. Walcott was not throwing hardly any punches. He was doing a lot of clinching. Not that strange in the first round of a fight, but Walcott usually didn't clinch a lot. By itself, not a big deal.

2. Walcott clearly seemed like he could get up from the knockdown. (It has been suggested that he was temporarily dazed, but that really doesn't seem to be the case.)

3. Notice that after he gets up after he is counted out. He walks around calmly for a while. Then all of a sudden he starts complaining about the officiating.
Why wasn't he complaining right away?
It's almost as if he suddenly remembered that he should have been complaining.

It does look fishy.

4. And the fact that Walcott got paid nearly double what the new champ got paid.

5. And that Walcott wasn't known for going down easy - see the blows Louis hammered him with in their rematch before Walcott finally went down.

6. And the fact that IBC President Jim Norris - who Walcott boxed for - wanted to (and did) mold Marciano into his new star, but Rocky had to prove the first win over Walcott (who had floored Rocky and was leading on the cards) wasn't just a lucky punch.

7. And the fact that everyone in attendance knew all this too, and therefore immediately recognized the outcome as a fix.

a fixed fight? they didn't fix fights in those days, did they? they never fixed fritzie zivic's losses, that's one thing I'm certain of

Il Duce wrote:There Was 'No Fix'

Jack Saunders, a Sports Journalist for 'The Pittsburg Courier' was a good friend of Jersey Joe Walcott.

Jack Saunders bet a 'large boat load' of money on Jersey Joe at 18-5 {Betting Odds}.

Jack Saunders >
"I saw Jersey Joe in his workouts at his place in Pleasantville, New Jersey {Laoml Byrd's}. He was fanatical
about his Training and was in excellent shape. He was at 196 lbs. in early-April 1953, just before the original
set date of April 10th, before Rocky postponed it."

"When he came into Chicago in late-April for the Chicago Bout, he stayed at the Midwest Hotel {owned by James D. Norris}.
They set him up with a 'State-of-the-Art' Gym. Does that sound like he was taking a dive."

"I saw his Trainer {Dan Florio} and Manager {Felix Boccicchio} every day. They were expecting to win, and then have a
'big money' 3rd-Bout with Rocky."

Duce, if you get a chance, listen to at least the first 1:20 of commentary on the Smith-Noble follow-up fight which is linked earlier in this thread.

In it the commentator is talking about what had just happened in the Marciano-Walcott fight and he says something to the effect that Walcott "didn't train too hard" for the fight and was possibly just hanging around for a last check and then retirement. Maybe he was just advancing someone's theory, but it does get mentioned.

Dubblechin wrote:The second Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott was a fixed fight.

Walcott had floored Marciano and was leading on all the cards in their first bout when Marciano scored a one-punch knockout. Many at the time viewed it as a lucky punch.

The Jim Norris-led IBC – which controlled boxing at the time – felt they had a star in the young Marciano and they wanted to build him up. Rocky Marciano’s manager, Al Weill, was also conveniently the matchmaker for the IBC. Walcott was one of the IBC’s original fighters. (He signed on when Joe Louis retired.)

The rematch was held at Chicago Stadium – the heart of the IBC. (Jim Norris owned Chicago Stadium.) Norris also promoted all the Gillette Friday Night Fights.

Marciano-Walcott II aired live on the Friday Night Fights. Eyebrows were raised before the fight when it was announced that Walcott, the challenger, was being paid nearly double ($250,000) than what the champ Marciano would earn. That didn't seem to make sense to anyone.

That figure caused even a bigger stink when Walcott rolled over in the first from a punch most didn't see and somehow “missed” the count – getting up a second too late. Thousands of people in the audience began yelling “Fix” almost immediately. I have newspaper reports from the day after where none of the reporters at ringside saw the punch and reported that the crowd was raging -- all chanting fix. Walcott wept in the ring before he left, he was so humiliated.

In fact, since the main event ended early and the broadcast still had time to fill, the swing-bout was televised featuring Oakland Billy Smith and Billy Noble. And long after Marciano and Walcott had left, fans were still so vocal in believing the Marciano fight had a been a fix, that you could barely hear Ben Bentley introduce Smith and Noble. Here's that fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beQPjh2woXA

The noise was so loud that the announcers on the TV broadcast (ran by Norris) had to talk about it. And they tried to explain that Walcott “maybe” wasn’t clear. But they also said during the Smith fight that a loudspeaker was picking up the count in the Stadium so the fighters could hear over the crowd noise.

It was clearly a fix to all who were there - fans, reporters, TV announcers -- and an embarrassment. Of course, when the fight was shown on television after that (I believe the first time it was re-aired it was on Marciano's TV show) only the Big Fights version was aired - with the live call, the fans booing, and all that "nonsense" edited out.

No fix here. Move along. Nothing to see here. Buy Gillette razors.

There was no fix. It just so happened that Walcott, like others before and after him, were never quite the same fighter as they were when they fought the Rock the first time. Walcott was an older fighter, true, but he seemed to get better with age--- then all of a sudden, it seemed the reflexes, the speed, the craftiness was all gone. He just happened to get hit with a great shot, and he made the conscious decision to not get up. Archie Moore and LaStarza, seemed to be the only two men who survived the whole Marciano-career ending experience. Ezzard Charles was never the same, and of course Joe Louis retired immediately, and Don Cockell certainly was never the same, as was Kid Matthews. Marciano was just too ferocious and too conditioned and too powerful.

There seems to be alot of mirror images in the careers of Marciano and Ali. When Marciano fought Walcott in their first fight, a substance got in his eyes and he fought blind for several rounds, same as Ali did with Liston. Strangely enough, the rematches were filled with major controversy where both Walcott and Liston were charged with taking a dive. Both Ali and Marciano retired undefeated, and under unusual circumstances---- no one really expected Marciano to just walk away from the sport like he did, and using the excuse or explaination that he wanted to be with his family more, whereas Ali was forced into exile by the government. And of course, the two men would constantly meet from time to time, Ali saying Marciano could of 'knocked out Chuvalo and Patterson on the same night', and of course Marciano also defending Ali at times saying it was just too early on to really cast judgement on Ali's worth as a fighter; and of course, the SuperFight. Ali and Marciano, forever linked in more ways than one.

And Walcott was the referee for the Ali-Liston II fight.