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Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 10:47
by evrenb
Il Duce wrote:European Sports Newspapers {October 1970}
World Heavyweight Champion 'Smokin Joe' Frazier was going to embark on a European Tour,
and both Henry Cooper and Jose Manuel Ibar Urtain were lined up as the 'first' Group of
European Challengers.
Henry Cooper was the #6 Ranked Heavyweight, and the Spaniard was the #7 Ranked Heavyweight.
Would these '2' Title Defenses and 'subsequent' crushing Knock-out wins made any difference in
Smokin Joe's Heavyweight Standing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Cooper, at {Age; 36 1/2} was the British-Commonwealth Champion, and was still a capable
Top 10 Heavyweight with a record of 39-13-1 {26 KO's}, and Henry had been 'unbeaten' since April 1967 when
he started his own comeback run.
The stocky muscle-bound Spaniard - Jose Manuel Urtain, {Age; 27 1/2} was the European Champion, and
with a record of 34-1-0 {33 KO's} could 'Bust Bricks With His Fists'.
Cooper the tougher challenger here...he beat Urtain I think...have that fight somewhere...Cooper would have been overwhelmed a bit I think...a bit like the patterson fight.....battle of the left hooks!
Smoking Joe would have only been beaten by A Foreman type at that point....Liston, Tyson, Foreman...he was an animal ...
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 11:41
by loaded_gloves
Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 12:15
by evrenb
loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Yeah I think right ...Joe Frazier ; A heart the size of Beaufort, a left hook the size of Philadelphia, all the will in the world, competitive spirit of a sioux warrior, Pride the size of America...blue collar, tough as nails..champion spirit...snortin like an 'eighteen wheeler'....our marvellous Joe Frazier!
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 17:34
by metchampion
I think it's quite well documented that Cooper fancied his chances against Jimmy Ellis, but once he was beaten by Frazier, the liklihood of Henry facing Joe was minimal, as Coopers manager viewed Frazier in much the same way as he did Liston and so the bout was unlikely to ever happen.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 17:42
by yancey
metchampion wrote:I think it's quite well documented that Cooper fancied his chances against Jimmy Ellis, but once he was beaten by Frazier, the liklihood of Henry facing him was minimal, as Coopers manager viewed Frazier in much the same way as he did Liston and so the bout was unlikely to ever happen.
Jimmy Ellis would have destroyed Cooper circa 1969-70.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 17:44
by yancey
evrenb wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Yeah I think right ...Joe Frazier ; A heart the size of Beaufort, a left hook the size of Philadelphia, all the will in the world, competitive spirit of a sioux warrior, Pride the size of America...blue collar, tough as nails..champion spirit...snortin like an 'eighteen wheeler'....our marvellous Joe Frazier!
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 21:06
by Dart340
I would have paid to see Jose Urtain get a crack at Joe Frazier circa 1970. Urtain would've come to fight and put on a better show than either Ziggy or Stander. Would've ended up badly for him, but it would've been fun while it lasted.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 21:17
by Rover
Dart340 wrote:I would have paid to see Jose Urtain get a crack at Joe Frazier circa 1970. Urtain would've come to fight and put on a better show than either Ziggy or Stander. Would've ended up badly for him, but it would've been fun while it lasted.
I don't think it'd have lasted long.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 21:17
by Giancarlo
yancey wrote:evrenb wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Yeah I think right ...Joe Frazier ; A heart the size of Beaufort, a left hook the size of Philadelphia, all the will in the world, competitive spirit of a sioux warrior, Pride the size of America...blue collar, tough as nails..champion spirit...snortin like an 'eighteen wheeler'....our marvellous Joe Frazier!
You'd have thought with all those superlatives he would have had at least a tiny bit of success against Foreman...
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 21:18
by Rover
loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Agreed, though he'd probably land something and maybe rock or drop Frazier before getting dispatched.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 21:38
by yancey
Rover wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Agreed, though he'd probably land something and maybe rock or drop Frazier before getting dispatched.
The only way Joe gets dropped in this one is if he trips over Cooper's twitching body.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 22:09
by dempseyfire
Dart340 wrote:I would have paid to see Jose Urtain get a crack at Joe Frazier circa 1970. Urtain would've come to fight and put on a better show than either Ziggy or Stander. Would've ended up badly for him, but it would've been fun while it lasted.
? Stander did put on a good show vs Frazier and I think was a more dangerous opponent than Frazier being bigger and having a better chin. Urtain had a fun style and was pretty fast and powerful but his lack of defense and chin would ensure it didn't last very long . . I wouldn't see it going past 3.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 22:18
by Rover
yancey wrote:Rover wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Never knew about these proposed bouts. Cooper could seriously hit and might have been dangerous for a while, but ultimately I would think he gets massacred, possibly inside two, by Smokin' Joe.
Agreed, though he'd probably land something and maybe rock or drop Frazier before getting dispatched.
The only way Joe gets dropped in this one is if he trips over Cooper's twitching body.
He could get caught like Ali did. I think he'd cut Cooper to shreds quickly.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 01 Aug 2013, 01:13
by Dart340
I'd take Urtain to make a better fight than Stander did.
Watching a bunch of footage of Urtain at the behest of Il Duce himself, Urtain was more compact and a stronger puncher. Stander was bigger and more durable, but a sloppier brawler with looping shots. No knock on Stander's effort, but stylewise I'd take Urtain to be more of a direct and intense challenge for Frazier to dispatch.
Re: Joe Frazier 1970 'Henry Cooper and Jose Urtain'
Posted: 01 Aug 2013, 16:58
by metchampion
yancey wrote:metchampion wrote:I think it's quite well documented that Cooper fancied his chances against Jimmy Ellis, but once he was beaten by Frazier, the liklihood of Henry facing him was minimal, as Coopers manager viewed Frazier in much the same way as he did Liston and so the bout was unlikely to ever happen.
Jimmy Ellis would have destroyed Cooper circa 1969-70.
Quite possibly, nevertheless, the fight was made by Harry Levene, who, I think agreed terms with Ellis. It only fell through, when the board refused to recognise the bout as being for the championship.
Cooper ended his record breaking British heavyweight reign and handed back his title in protest. When Frazier beat Ellis, Cooper set his sights on mopping up in Europe. In his autobiography, he actually says, he had to forget about a world title fight, at least until the Title changed hands.
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 00:54
by BoxBuzz
In 1964 Ali Faces all four of these big hitmakers on the same day.
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 04:37
by Space Moutain
Clay was a piece of shit! But I think he could've beaten all of the beetles in the same night. If he wasn't such a coward.
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 06:21
by Giancarlo
Space Moutain wrote:Clay was a piece of poo! But I think he could've beaten all of the beetles in the same night. If he wasn't such a coward.
Your gibberish make Il Duce sound almost normal.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 22:59
by gilgamesh
Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay
My owner Bill Faversham is lining me up with '4' British Heavyweights.
And all 'white' I might add.
I'd think The Beatles would've all been between Middleweight and Jr. Welterweight from the looks of 'em.
The Four of 'em combined would be a Heavyweight though I reckon.
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 23:07
by Space Moutain
Giancarlo wrote:Space Moutain wrote:Clay was a piece of poo! But I think he could've beaten all of the beetles in the same night. If he wasn't such a coward.
Your gibberish make Il Duce sound almost normal.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I'M CUSTOM MADE, FROM HEAD TO TOE! HAVE BEEN, AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!!
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 23:42
by gilgamesh
Il Duce wrote:Space Mountain,,,,,,,
That's Cool.................
Ric Flair 'pins' Muhammad Ali.
He'd slap that Figure Four on him, and then style and profile to the back and drink with the Horsemen WHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: 'LSG' ~ Puts Cassius On Ice Following The Henry Cooper Bout
Posted: 10 Feb 2014, 00:01
by Space Moutain
Yes, Flair would put the figure four on Clay while he squealed for the "Nation" to save him.
The Horsemen would be right there waiting to stomp the hatred out of their despicable asses.
Re: Henry Cooper ~ "I Want A Rematch With Cassius Clay, Now"
Posted: 25 Mar 2014, 10:53
by Controversial
I would've certainly been interesting if Cooper's hook landed earlier, he done well to get up so quickly to be fair as Cooper could whack with his left hook. Cooper was very cut prone so it wasn't a big surprise when it happened again, getting cut was a concern before the fight. What is exaggerated however is the break between rounds, none of the newspaper reports I have seen from that time mention any delay, it seems to be a story that has grown legs over time, mainly perpetuated by Cooper and the British press. It has been timed since and only said to be 5 seconds longer.
Re: Cassius Clay ~ "British - Tommy Little Is A Dirty Referee"
Posted: 25 Mar 2014, 12:14
by bodyblow999
Two posts for the same subject? Isnt this a violation of board rules?
Re: Henry Cooper ~ "I Want A Rematch With Cassius Clay, Now"
Posted: 25 Mar 2014, 12:14
by bodyblow999
Two posts for the same subject? Isnt this a violation of board rules?