BoxRec

Make your blasphemous statements here.

1.Roberto Duran is at best the 3rd greatest Lightweight of alltime.
2.Carlos Monzon is at best the 4th greatest Middleweight of alltime.
3.Jack Johnson was a fraud.
4.Sonny Liston was overrated.
5.Bob Foster isn't a top 5 Light Heavyweight.
6.Rocky Marciano dominated a weak era of HW's.
7.Ezzard Charles (while still an alltime great) is not in the 1st tier.
8.Sandy Saddler did not have Willie Pep's number.
9.Oscar DeLaHoya wasn't robbed vs Felix Trinidad.
10.Duran v Leonard I was alot closer than Hagler v Duran was.

Bob Foster wasn't a Top 15 Light Heavyweight
Neither was Roy Jones
On that night Buster Douglas beats any version of Tyson
Jimmy Wilde isn't a top 3 Flyweight
Ricardo Lopez isn't a Top 15 Mexican
Morales, Barrera & Marquez were better fighters than Chavez.
Wlad and Vitali are not one person with a combined resume.
Even if they were it wouldn't merit a top 20 Heavyweight rating.
Fighters shouldn't be rated on who you think would win a fight.
Holman Williams was greater than Charley Burley

Some I subscribe to.....Ezzard Charles record over Archie Moore is a bit of an aberration.

As is Iran Barkleys over Thomas Hearns

and Thomas Hearns over Roberto Duran.


Yet....the facts are what they are.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Wlad and Vitali are not one person with a combined resume

I have never agreed so strongly with this statement.
I have hated hearing how Wlad cleaned out the division.Hello his brother did half of the work.
Great observation Mr.SAAD

Hey....don't bust on the "K" team.

Ricardo Lopez isn't a top 15 Mexican? I have to disagree with that one.

I thought Trinidad did beat De La Hoya.

Woah....you musta' forgot!

Cassius Clay's mamma wore combat boots!

palooka wrote:Ricardo Lopez isn't a top 15 Mexican? I have to disagree with that one.

Isn't that the point of the thread?

Anyway.. Arizmendi, MAB, Canto, JLC, JCC, Humberto Gonzalez, Herrera, JMM, Rafael Marquez, Morales, Olivares, Ortega, Palomino, Pintor, Roman, Saldivar, Sanchez, Vazquez, Zarate.

Certainly several are arguable, others are against him.

Il Duce wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Woah....you musta' forgot!

Cassius Clay's mamma wore combat boots!

That is not true.

But she was always Mrs. Cassius Clay Sr. ........

Well, that is the point of the thread.....and the rest of us knew it did not have to be challenged.

I'm just glad you stood up for her. Shows you have no bias.

Seamus wrote:Make your blasphemous statements here.

1.Roberto Duran is at best the 3rd greatest Lightweight of alltime.
2.Carlos Monzon is at best the 4th greatest Middleweight of alltime.
3.Jack Johnson was a fraud.
4.Sonny Liston was overrated.
5.Bob Foster isn't a top 5 Light Heavyweight.
6.Rocky Marciano dominated a weak era of HW's.
7.Ezzard Charles (while still an alltime great) is not in the 1st tier.
8.Sandy Saddler did not have Willie Pep's number.
9.Oscar DeLaHoya wasn't robbed vs Felix Trinidad.
10.Duran v Leonard I was alot closer than Hagler v Duran was.

Do you honestly believe that shite?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Bob Foster wasn't a Top 15 Light Heavyweight
Neither was Roy Jones
On that night Buster Douglas beats any version of Tyson
Jimmy Wilde isn't a top 3 Flyweight
Ricardo Lopez isn't a Top 15 Mexican
Morales, Barrera & Marquez were better fighters than Chavez.
Wlad and Vitali are not one person with a combined resume.
Even if they were it wouldn't merit a top 20 Heavyweight rating.
Fighters shouldn't be rated on who you think would win a fight.
Holman Williams was greater than Charley Burley

Saad, I'm honestly curious . . can you list your top 15 Mexican fighters of all time so I can see who you'd include. There have been so many . . I don't even know if I disagree with you there or not, although my first instinct is that he'd make the cut.

Lopez not being top 15 from south of the border?

Can't imagine that, I don't think he was hype, he showed very good skills, and tenacity.

Lopez was a fantastic boxer, one of the best I've watched. Mexico is spoiled as some of their best are the very best worldwide. I'd say Lopez was a pretty safe bet.

(Good thread though)

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Bob Foster wasn't a Top 15 Light Heavyweight
Neither was Roy Jones
On that night Buster Douglas beats any version of Tyson
Jimmy Wilde isn't a top 3 Flyweight
Ricardo Lopez isn't a Top 15 Mexican
Morales, Barrera & Marquez were better fighters than Chavez.
Wlad and Vitali are not one person with a combined resume.
Even if they were it wouldn't merit a top 20 Heavyweight rating.
Fighters shouldn't be rated on who you think would win a fight.
Holman Williams was greater than Charley Burley

Saad, I'm honestly curious . . can you list your top 15 Mexican fighters of all time so I can see who you'd include. There have been so many . . I don't even know if I disagree with you there or not, although my first instinct is that he'd make the cut.

I don't have a concrete list, but I listed these guys earlier that I have over Lopez. The ones in bold are likely my top 15 and there are guys like Becerra and Azteca that I left out. I don't have an issue with him top 15, he just doesn't make mine. Top 10 is ridiculous.

Arizmendi, MAB, Canto, JLC, JCC, Humberto Gonzalez, Herrera, JMM, Rafael Marquez, Morales, Olivares, Ortega, Palomino, Pintor, Roman, Saldivar, Sanchez, Vazquez, Zarate.

You've listed some fantastic boxers and they had fantastic careers; none of them retired undefeated after an 11 year run as world champion though (1990-2001). Lopez has a fantastic record and boxed many top men, knocking many out. It's a subjective thing but Lopez is a great and if he were even 10lbs heavier his accomplishments, class and ability would have made him an icon.

palooka wrote:You've listed some fantastic boxers and they had fantastic careers; none of them retired undefeated after an 11 year run as world champion though (1990-2001). Lopez has a fantastic record and boxed many top men, knocking many out. It's a subjective thing but Lopez is a great and if he were even 10lbs heavier his accomplishments, class and ability would have made him an icon.

I don't care about being undefeated. Nothing could mean less to me in evaluating a fighter. Some of the other guys have losses I'd put over any of Ricardo's wins.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

palooka wrote:You've listed some fantastic boxers and they had fantastic careers; none of them retired undefeated after an 11 year run as world champion though (1990-2001). Lopez has a fantastic record and boxed many top men, knocking many out. It's a subjective thing but Lopez is a great and if he were even 10lbs heavier his accomplishments, class and ability would have made him an icon.

I don't care about being undefeated. Nothing could mean less to me in evaluating a fighter. Some of the other guys have losses I'd put over any of Ricardo's wins.

He beat the best at his weight for 11 years and was reportedly unbeaten as an amateur. Anyone he boxed he beat - you can't get much better than that.

palooka wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

palooka wrote:You've listed some fantastic boxers and they had fantastic careers; none of them retired undefeated after an 11 year run as world champion though (1990-2001). Lopez has a fantastic record and boxed many top men, knocking many out. It's a subjective thing but Lopez is a great and if he were even 10lbs heavier his accomplishments, class and ability would have made him an icon.

I don't care about being undefeated. Nothing could mean less to me in evaluating a fighter. Some of the other guys have losses I'd put over any of Ricardo's wins.

He beat the best at his weight for 11 years and was reportedly unbeaten as an amateur. Anyone he boxed he beat - you can't get much better than that.

Good for him.

But not good enough for you?

palooka wrote:But not good enough for you?

over and out

palooka wrote:over and out

Is Saad out there expressing his opinion again? Damn...that's it.


We need to send Vito out to talk to him.

BarryWashington wrote:Alvarez (in my eyes) was up easy against Lopez in their first fight. IMO Samuel Conde Lopez was the only judge who had that right

Fair point and Alvarez was a very good fighter and it was maybe the only time Lopez was troubled; he put it right 2nd bout (though Alvarez came in 4 and half lbs over).

I had Alvarez ahead by 3 in the 1st fight, and gave Finito the 2nd by 5 pts.