BoxRec

He beat every opponent he fought as a pro (like Lennox Lewis).

Is he a top 20 or top 50 all time fighter or does his record deceive us all?

I think top 50 is very possible, as well as #1 at 140. Great fighter.

I think there is little tape of him...and I've watched what I think exists.......and yes his record is great, but what I've seen I think both Antonio Cervantes, and Loche are better.

But my thoughts are pretty subjective at best with such little to go on. Like Greb, his record speaks volumes....and in his case there is some film on him.

Greb is the GOAT. Whipping Tunney's ass near blind is enough for me.

You're big on taking the word of the old journalists right?

I'm not baiting you....it's something I reflect upon....and seeing is usually believing.

But it's a bit of a leap of faith, even from someone as old as me, who honestly comes from a time when that's about all you had to go on. But now we have cameras everywhere, and although it leaves each of us to determine what our eyes saw, at least it's a reference point.

Those words from the many many reporters can be conflicting at times. And it's hell to try to decide on just what it means. I do like and appreciate the hard workers (example Klompton) who attempt to get it done though. But then you get a guy like Il Duce, who shows us just what it's all about to be vulnerable to the human temptation to just say whatever suits him. And this leaves you wondering just what words to accept, and which to disavow.

I don't buy the Loi argument that far, great fighter yes, greatest in a divsion or atg, no.

BoxBuzz wrote:You're big on taking the word of the old journalists right?

I'm not baiting you....it's something I reflect upon....and seeing is usually believing.

But it's a bit of a leap of faith, even from someone as old as me, who honestly comes from a time when that's about all you had to go on. But now we have cameras everywhere, and although it leaves each of us to determine what our eyes saw, at least it's a reference point.

Those words from the many many reporters can be conflicting at times. And it's hell to try to decide on just what it means. I do like and appreciate the hard workers (example Klompton) who attempt to get it done though. But then you get a guy like Il Duce, who shows us just what it's all about to be vulnerable to the human temptation to just say whatever suits him. And this leaves you wondering just what words to accept, and which to disavow.

Klompton is an ass clown. My top 5 is Greb, Langford, Robinson, Armstrong & Charles. So I'm clearly not reliant on film.

Duilio Loi
A top 10 jr. welterweight? Yes
A top 50 all time pound per pound great? No
A borderline top 100 all time pound per pound great? Yes.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. He used to be underrated, but people seem to be giving him his due the last few years.

Loi was a real good fighter but not as good as his record indicates. His two fights with Perkins were robberies (the draw and the win). His second fight with Ortiz was a gift as well. I need to go back and watch their third fight. I cant remember if that was legit or not. Those were the two best guys he fought. Now, that being said, Loi was competitive in those bouts and there's no shame in losing to two masters like Perkins and Ortiz. He was the real deal. Tough, always in good shape, and a tenacious battler.

Cervantes, Locche and Loi.....could you give your assessment?

BoxBuzz wrote:Cervantes, Locche and Loi.....could you give your assessment?

I love Cervantes. He was a badass. I used to love Locche based on the limited footage that was available of him here in the United States. Then I got a ton of stuff on him from Argentina and Im not so impressed anymore. He was a major spoiler who makes Chris Byrd look aggressive. He just showed up and the hometown judges awarded him victory. Didnt matter what actually happened in the ring. The maddening thing was he could fight when he chose to but he spent most of the time on the defensive just doing nothing. He would spend MINUTES without throwing a punch. I was really sad to see that. Changed my opinion entirely. Like I said, Loi was a good fighter. Strong, tenacious, aggressive, good stamina, and always in good shape. He could be outboxed and he could be outpunched but you had to be a top fighter to do it. Cervantes is my favorite of the three he was the most well rounded. Loi was strong, durable, and well conditioned but he couldnt punch and could be hit pretty easily. Locche had fantastic ability to slip punches and was strong but he could spend long stretches being inactive and couldnt punch either. Cervantes could box, or punch, he was always in great shape, and he was unusually tall and rangy for that weight. Both Locche and Loi were protected by hometown judges whereas Cervantes has more losses but he fought on the road a lot more. In fact he fought something like 30+ times away from home and half of his 15 losses were on the road. Locche fought four or five times on the road, 2 of his four losses accuring away. Loi fought 11 times on the road and 2 of his three losses occured that way. I would have loved to have seen a round robin between these guys on neutral territory. My pick would be Cervantes to win. I think hed outpoint Locche and stop Loi. I think Loi would beat Locche as well. A durable volume puncher with a mauling swarming style who came on late like Loi did would be poison to Locche anywhere neutral.

I agree that Cervantes was the best of the three....but the limited film I've seen on Loche sure flatters him.

I met Antonio in Hawaii. Through his interpreter, I got the impression he was a very humble and easy to get along with person.

Always been a favorite, and I think he is the best of his weight class.

BoxBuzz wrote:I agree that Cervantes was the best of the three....but the limited film I've seen on Loche sure flatters him.

I met Antonio in Hawaii. Through his interpreter, I got the impression he was a very humble and easy to get along with person.

Always been a favorite, and I think he is the best of his weight class.

No doubt in my mind Perkins was better than Loi or Locche. A fight between him and Cervantes would have been awsome to behold. In his prime Cervantes was tough to beat.

Read somewhere that Loi was never knocked down as a pro. If that's true it's pretty impressive.

klompton wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Cervantes, Locche and Loi.....could you give your assessment?

I love Cervantes. He was a badass. I used to love Locche based on the limited footage that was available of him here in the United States. Then I got a ton of stuff on him from Argentina and Im not so impressed anymore. He was a major spoiler who makes Chris Byrd look aggressive. He just showed up and the hometown judges awarded him victory. Didnt matter what actually happened in the ring. The maddening thing was he could fight when he chose to but he spent most of the time on the defensive just doing nothing. He would spend MINUTES without throwing a punch. I was really sad to see that. Changed my opinion entirely. Like I said, Loi was a good fighter. Strong, tenacious, aggressive, good stamina, and always in good shape. He could be outboxed and he could be outpunched but you had to be a top fighter to do it. Cervantes is my favorite of the three he was the most well rounded. Loi was strong, durable, and well conditioned but he couldnt punch and could be hit pretty easily. Locche had fantastic ability to slip punches and was strong but he could spend long stretches being inactive and couldnt punch either. Cervantes could box, or punch, he was always in great shape, and he was unusually tall and rangy for that weight. Both Locche and Loi were protected by hometown judges whereas Cervantes has more losses but he fought on the road a lot more. In fact he fought something like 30+ times away from home and half of his 15 losses were on the road. Locche fought four or five times on the road, 2 of his four losses accuring away. Loi fought 11 times on the road and 2 of his three losses occured that way. I would have loved to have seen a round robin between these guys on neutral territory. My pick would be Cervantes to win. I think hed outpoint Locche and stop Loi. I think Loi would beat Locche as well. A durable volume puncher with a mauling swarming style who came on late like Loi did would be poison to Locche anywhere neutral.

Interesting take. Cervantes was one of my favorites when I was growing up in the 70s. However, I seem to remember when Locche and Cervantes fought the first time in Argentina, Locche won pretty easily. Is my memory faulty? I don't remember it being a bad decision, but it's been a long time and I'm getting up there.

Seamus wrote:Read somewhere that Loi was never knocked down as a pro. If that's true it's pretty impressive.

Thats not true. He was knocked down by Ortiz and I have another fight where some European whose name I cant remember clocked him, dropped him hard face first into the canvas, and almost stopped him.

I dont know why Boxrec has two knockdowns scored against Perkins in their second fight. One was clearly a slip with Loi not even close to Perkins and the other was a foul in which Loi threw Perkins down.

Here he is getting dropped by Ortiz:

giacomino wrote:

klompton wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Cervantes, Locche and Loi.....could you give your assessment?

I love Cervantes. He was a badass. I used to love Locche based on the limited footage that was available of him here in the United States. Then I got a ton of stuff on him from Argentina and Im not so impressed anymore. He was a major spoiler who makes Chris Byrd look aggressive. He just showed up and the hometown judges awarded him victory. Didnt matter what actually happened in the ring. The maddening thing was he could fight when he chose to but he spent most of the time on the defensive just doing nothing. He would spend MINUTES without throwing a punch. I was really sad to see that. Changed my opinion entirely. Like I said, Loi was a good fighter. Strong, tenacious, aggressive, good stamina, and always in good shape. He could be outboxed and he could be outpunched but you had to be a top fighter to do it. Cervantes is my favorite of the three he was the most well rounded. Loi was strong, durable, and well conditioned but he couldnt punch and could be hit pretty easily. Locche had fantastic ability to slip punches and was strong but he could spend long stretches being inactive and couldnt punch either. Cervantes could box, or punch, he was always in great shape, and he was unusually tall and rangy for that weight. Both Locche and Loi were protected by hometown judges whereas Cervantes has more losses but he fought on the road a lot more. In fact he fought something like 30+ times away from home and half of his 15 losses were on the road. Locche fought four or five times on the road, 2 of his four losses accuring away. Loi fought 11 times on the road and 2 of his three losses occured that way. I would have loved to have seen a round robin between these guys on neutral territory. My pick would be Cervantes to win. I think hed outpoint Locche and stop Loi. I think Loi would beat Locche as well. A durable volume puncher with a mauling swarming style who came on late like Loi did would be poison to Locche anywhere neutral.

Interesting take. Cervantes was one of my favorites when I was growing up in the 70s. However, I seem to remember when Locche and Cervantes fought the first time in Argentina, Locche won pretty easily. Is my memory faulty? I don't remember it being a bad decision, but it's been a long time and I'm getting up there.

I have extended footage of the fight. Not complete but more than the short clip that is always shown, and Locche does nothing. He spends the whole time dodging punches. I guess if you scoring only on defense it wasnt a bad decision but boxrec says the judges gave him every round. I dont see how thats possible. As far as Im concerned its not boxing, or a fight, if only one guy is actually trying to fight and the other guy is simply showboating and trying to make fighter A look bad. Like I said, I used to be a huge Locche fan but Im really turned off by him now.

I saw some Locche films from Argentina years ago and I have to agree he used to get rounds based on making the other guy miss, because he seemed kinda lazy on offense and what he threw didn't have much on it. I seem to remember seeing the first Locche-Cervantes fight and thinking Locche won, but certainly not a shutout. But again, it's been a while

As I recall, Loche was one of those kind of fighters who fought hard enough to win. As a result, he could look great against great fighters, and very pedestrian against average fighters.