Page 1 of 1

Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 25 Apr 2014, 19:05
by SamWise72
I'm thinking here mostly of his world title fights. I'm not making any case that he should have won any of them, but with all three, it was far from impossible for him to win. What if he had? I know that's not how boxing works, but what if he then faced the same opponents they did? Well:

Mike McCallum:

A 16-0 Steve Collins would have been easy meat for Herol. Steve only really ever had one trick, and he hadn't learned that one yet. Watson would have been a massive fight, but Herol is ask wrong for Michael, and it's another easy win. McCallum's next title fight was Kalambay, and as much as I want to, you can't really justify giving a win to Herol, considering history. Shame, as Graham - Toney would have been interesting.

Julian Jackson:

Basically defended against nobodies til be fought McClellan. Graham - McClellan is another interesting one, never saw Gerald in with anyone remotely similar to know how he'd have got on.


Charles Brewer:

Can you really see Herol losing to Ottke? Only in Germany. Would Herol have gone to Germany? Actually, if he'd only win the title at 38, he might have for the money.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 30 Apr 2014, 12:24
by Broomhall
People say HG was Britains greatest "uncrowned" boxer-the best to never win a world title, but personally for me that honour should go to the Finnegan Brothers, Chris and Kevin.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 30 Apr 2014, 14:44
by Bodyshot3
Interesting and thanks....I think Collins was a good deal less straightforward than he's sometimes viewed as. I know that you are not dismissing him as a bruiser; but the general view when historic match-ups are reviewed is that he is the guy who loses. His record suggest differently...everyone got a tough night against Collins.

He was so incredibly tenacious, strong and organised that he was often able to negate a more talented opponent's advantages. He was extremely honest and insightful when Sky got him around the table with Woodhall, Jones Jr, Eubank and Calzaghe because he what talked about was how he examined the one weakness an opponent had and then did everything he could to make sure his fight plan revolved around. Collins fought rough and hard, but he was methodical and an extremely intelligent operator.

Personally, I think he'd have given Herol a heck of a battle and largely based upon the fact that he'd have forced Herol to fight every minute of every round and throw just one more punch than he was comfortable with just to keep him off him. The more I look at Collins, who I watched at the time as well, the more I rate him.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 30 Apr 2014, 15:09
by SamWise72
I dunno, Collins was tough and dedicated, but when was that ever enough to worry Graham? His marquee wins were career enders for Eubank and Benn, and prior to that, he always lost when he mixed at the top.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 01 May 2014, 05:43
by Ezzard
If Herol had got the nod over McCallum I'm pretty sure there would have been a rematch.

Agree with the comments on Steve Collins. Much better than a first viewing suggests.

I would also bet McClellan would have been too much for Herol by that point.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 01 May 2014, 15:42
by SamWise72
I think Herol would have walked a Collins fight, but I agree that McClellan would have been a big ask at any time, and too much for sure at that actual time.

Collins, of course, lost by a much wider margin than Herol to McCallum, then to the unspectacular Reggie Johnson, and after also losing to Kalambay, studiously avoided anyone world class who wasn't at the end of the road after a brutally punishing career. He wasn't ever in Herol's class.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 02 May 2014, 03:46
by Ketchel
SamWise72 wrote:I think Herol would have walked a Collins fight, but I agree that McClellan would have been a big ask at any time, and too much for sure at that actual time.

Collins, of course, lost by a much wider margin than Herol to McCallum, then to the unspectacular Reggie Johnson, and after also losing to Kalambay, studiously avoided anyone world class who wasn't at the end of the road after a brutally punishing career. He wasn't ever in Herol's class.
Against McCallum Collins was only having his 17th fight and showed great grit to give Mike a tougher than expected fight. I don't think he avoided anyone until he got the Eubank & Benn fights. Two guys who studiously avoided guys like Johnson, Kalambay, Toney & Jones.

Re: Herol's defeats..... a "what if" thread

Posted: 02 May 2014, 13:59
by SamWise72
After the Kalambay defeat, he came to the UK and rebuilt against the likes of Johnny Melfah, which got him out of the way of the top US fighters, and out him on the path to the WBO title, which was very much B level. Agreed, Benn avoided Jones, McCallum and Toney (credit for beating McClellan and Barkley), and Eubank avoided all quality US opposition. And still Collins needed to catch them at the end of their careers.