BoxRec

got the dvd yesterday of ali v marciano...and theres 15 hours on the bonus disc of the original radio fantasy tournament of 1967, the only reason i wanted this disc...waited so long to get my hands on this.

listening to dempsey v marciano as i type....build up is on..they are interviewing joe louis on how fight is going to go....crowd noise in background....they even have an interview with marciano from his training camp before the fight on how he thinks he's going to handle dempsey.....sounds so very authentic, really well done... .i'll try and rip this to mp3's for anyone wants it.

it really is a treat.....i have uploaded marciano v dempsey to youtube for anyone that wants to listen....starts at around 15 minutes in after the build-up..














Jack Dempsey vs Rocky Marciano..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGUNtdkfs7o

dempsey v joe louis..

speed is too fast for the last minute, but this is how it is on the dvd...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxVKZGtpeY

james j jeffries vs jersey joe walcott..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6O5KXl9Ru0

Max Schmeling vs Muhammad Ali ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85G5VHuXLPk

Jack Johnson vs Max Baer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuzzswy0yLg

Max Baer vs Rocky Marciano...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhmJZe0YrTQ

Not sure which was more sophisticated..the NCR-315 seen below


Or the Mighty Hasbro "Think-a-Tron"

But I can tell you I listened in real time to every one of those broadcasts. lol

muhammad ali vs james j jeffries...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zE_a-zoBM

Jack Dempsey vs James J Corbett...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1i-zuWRMEs

Jack Dempsey vs John L Sullivan..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYS20pmJSC8

Bob Fitzsimmons vs Jack Sharkey..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEU7FbyEWQ

James J Jeffries v Rocky Marciano...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvdlat_hstc

Joe Louis vs Bob Fitzsimmons...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4_EPJK73rQ

Joe Louis vs Jess Willard...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xKXXGRJR0E

last one...been an effort getting these uploaded.....also may have one more which was an extra on the dvd of the making of the tournament which i think is interesting too.

Rocky Marciano vs Gene Tunney...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icGHrpA5m64

fantasy fight tournament dvd extra....making of the tournament...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KErIZ_f6Y

this middleweight version was broadcast the next year (1968)....i have tried for years to get it without luck :(

Round 1:

Marcel Cerdan KO 4 Carmen Basilio

Emile Griffith W points Kid McCoy

Stanley Ketchel TKO 7 Gene Fullmer

Rocky Graziano KO 11 Tiger Flowers

Sugar Ray Robinson TKO 11 Jack "Nonpareil" Dempsey

Bob Fitzsimmons W points Jack La Motta

Mickey Walker KO 9 Dick Tiger

Harry Greb KO 14 Tony Zale

Round 2:

Cerdan TKO 10 Griffith

Ketchel KO 11 Graziano

Robinson TKO 3 Fitzsimmons

Walker W points Greb

Semis:

Ketchel KO 12 Cerdan

Robinson W points Walker

Final:

Robinson W points Ketchel



.....................................................


The middleweight tournament was run in the same fashion as the heavyweight tourney. Sports writers around the country selected the 16 champions whom they considered the all-time greats, and there's plenty of room for argument over the fighters entered. The tournament kicked off on Sept 30 1968 with Carmen Basilio meeting Marcel Cerdan, and other -first round bouts included Emlfe Griffith against Kid McCoy, Gene Fullmer against Stanley Ketchel, Tiger Flowers against Rocky Graziano, Nonpareil Jack Dempsey against Sugar Bay Robinson, Bob Fitzsimmons against Jake La Motta, Mickey Walker against Dick Tiger and Harry Greb against Tony Zale.

We sent questionaires to about 500 writers," said Woroner, "and got about 300 replies. Frankly, I thought some fighters who were omitted should have been included. The writers were required to rate each fighter on 129 variables, on such as speed of foot, ability to take a punch, and accuracy, on a 1-10 scale. The fighters were matched by promoter Chris Dundee, manager Angelo Dundee and Nat Fleischer, publisher of Ring Magazine, and the material then was fed into a computer. "The idea started one night after I'd spent a couple of hours listening to arguments about what fighters were the best, who would have done what to whom" said Woroner. "I asked a friend who works for a computer company whether a tournament couldn't be arranged if data was obtained on the fighters. He said it could be done and we were on our way:" Besides the questionnaires, Woroner also got information by interviewing each living fighter in the tourney and getting all the facts he could from the World Boxing Historians and Ring Magazine. Woroner also spent a lot of time recording sound effects at actual fights, including punches landing, feet . s****ing on the canvas, the timekeeper counting the knockdown and the crowd. ' The tapes of each-match are delivered to the stations in sealed containers two hours before fight tune so the results cannot be divulged in advance.

(The Ogden Standard-Examiner)



Semifinals

Cerdan v. Ketchel
Robinson v. Walker

Cerdan-Ketchel: In 12 bloody rounds, Marcel Cerdan was floored 5 times and Stan Ketchel twice before the Michigan Mauler finally put the Ferocious Frenchman down for the big sleep at 2:08 of the 12th round. Cerdan was decked in the 7th, twice in the 9th, and twice in the 12th.

Winner: Ketchel, KO 12.

Robinson-Walker: The arms of Sugar Ray Robinson were a bit too long for the Toy Bulldog. Robinson set himself up for the all-time finals by outpointing Walker 145-141 in a close one.

Winner: Robinson.

..........................

Final -
Sugar Ray Robinson v. Stanley Ketchel

Background: It was a duel made in promoters' heaven. Ray Robinson, the angelic boxing master, v. Stan Ketchel, the demonic fury, who fought as if every round put his life on the line. Ketchel had become a ring legend in 8 years. Robinson fought everybody and beat the greatest during a 25-year career.

Sugar Ray had an assortment of punches that would rival a soda fountain. Ketchel was as tough as homemade iron. Robinson's flickering feet and hands kept him in control of a fight. It was said that Ketchel could stop any man on any given evening. What would the computer have to say about it?

The fight: The real Sugar Ray Robinson listened to his computer image on the radio and said: "I kept ducking and blocking, feinting and moving. . . . I felt every punch."

His transistorized alter ego felt one especially in the 1st round when Ketchel surprised him with a right to the head. Robinson, down for one of the few times in his life, knew that he was in a fight.

Ketchel moved in to work on the body and Robinson used his reach to punish the little battler to the head. Robinson drew blood in the 3rd and kept it flowing. In the final rounds, knowing he needed a knockout to win, Ketchel unleashed a brutal attack, but Robinson's long arms and clever combinations kept him at bay. The officials gave the mythical all-time championship to Sugar Ray 147 to 139. Even though Robinson tilted the electrons in his favor in every round except the 1st and 8th, he never had Ketchel off his feet.

Winner and All-Time Middleweight Champion: Sugar Ray Robinson.


..........................................


my main issue with the middleweight one was the greb v walker result and what they based that on

BoxBuzz wrote:Not sure which was more sophisticated..the NCR-315 seen below


Or the Mighty Hasbro "Think-a-Tron"

Crazy thing is... we used that exact same computer system to get us on the moon. The simulators were exact enough, as history shows us, that we were able to land on the moon--- based on the NCR-315 computer read out. The issue with technology, then and now, is the human element. It's impossible to describe to a computer what it is to be human, and it not "think" it as being weak, etc. which is why you see computers read out outrageous predictions more times than not.

Case in point.... when Woroner decided to use the NCR-315 computer to determine "winners" in actual contests... the computer was fed information on two men (Bob Foster and Joe Frazier) and all the computer could see was that Foster had the superior record overall (as a light heavyweight, though) and wasn't able to be objective. It predicted Foster to win via KO in 6 rounds. And of course, Foster got flattened in two rounds. This embarassment, bankrupted Woroner. But who was at fault? The men feeding information to the computer, or the computer being incapable of determining the worth of the variables attributed to the principles?

More times than not, when I make predictions on heavyweight contests, I usually get 8 out of 10 verdicts right. I'd wager that my "stats" in predictions is far better than any computer system--- and most knowledgable boxing fans on this forum and worldwide, I believe would have a far better understanding of how a fight would end, than any computer system--- because we know what it is to be human. A machine, no matter how much education it receives, cannot compute.

..i hard those live....i didn't think they were very good....

for one thing, the elections were a tad odd.....has anyone noticed that ezzard charles wasn't even one of the fighters?

jaclem3 wrote:..i hard those live....i didn't think they were very good....

for one thing, the elections were a tad odd.....has anyone noticed that ezzard charles wasn't even one of the fighters?

did you not think the production was good...and amazingly authentic sounding for the time ?

doug.ie wrote:

jaclem3 wrote:..i hard those live....i didn't think they were very good....

for one thing, the elections were a tad odd.....has anyone noticed that ezzard charles wasn't even one of the fighters?

did you not think the production was good...and amazingly authentic sounding for the time ?

It was good production.... BUT.... when I watch the Ali-Marciano fight on film.... I have to laugh just a bit. Cus in the moments, when the two men went away from the script and threw punches with real intentions---- THAT is when I see how they would of really fought one another. For all the talk, all the science, all the mathematics, etc. it was a nice imitation--- but I don't believe that would of been the strategy of either man in an actual fight. You could see it in those moments when they chopped at eachother in earnest---- they would of had to of gone balls to the wall against one another.

bump