BoxRec

How did others read this fight. Just out of interest.

McGuigan wrote:How did others read this fight. Just out of interest.

I watched this again the other day.
Still Leonard for me by a couple of points.
Hagler never really fought the right fight IMHO....He was the hunter that night when he was always better when he could stand his ground and counter.
Leonard boxed well however and scored from the outside with the odd flashy combination. and Leonard probably knew that Hagler had fallen into his "trap"...Hence he never entertained the thought of a rematch with the Marvellous One

DOG wrote:

McGuigan wrote:How did others read this fight. Just out of interest.

I watched this again the other day.
Still Leonard for me by a couple of points.
Hagler never really fought the right fight IMHO....He was the hunter that night when he was always better when he could stand his ground and counter.
Leonard boxed well however and scored from the outside with the odd flashy combination. and Leonard probably knew that Hagler had fallen into his "trap"...Hence he never entertained the thought of a rematch with the Marvellous One

That's how I read it. Hagler let himself get riled by Ray and has to be said Ray's hit and move worked a treat.

HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

was surprised that he did that actually.

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

I thought Hagler stuck around for a while, but eventually gave up chasing a rematch about a year after the fight.

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

indeed he did J.
but
He would have fought SRL again if that was an option. 100%
SRL wanted no more of Hagler so no rematch was even offered......Read into that what you will

Can you imagine how many $ a rematch would've generated.
Hagler felt cheated by the decision and his own failure to fight to his strengths...Believe me he wanted a rematch

DOG wrote:

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

indeed he did J.
but
He would have fought SRL again if that was an option. 100%
SRL wanted no more of Hagler so no rematch was even offered......Read into that what you will

Can you imagine how many $ a rematch would've generated.
Hagler felt cheated by the decision and his own failure to fight to his strengths...Believe me he wanted a rematch

Agree and he would have probably won it but it still ranks to me as one of the best displays of boxing ( in the true sense of the word) that i have ever seen bearing in mind Leonards inactivity and moving up a weight to fight the top man ( esp the cr*p display he gave against kevin howard!). As I say hagler let the tactics of the fight play against him.

McGuigan wrote:

DOG wrote:

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

indeed he did J.
but
He would have fought SRL again if that was an option. 100%
SRL wanted no more of Hagler so no rematch was even offered......Read into that what you will

Can you imagine how many $ a rematch would've generated.
Hagler felt cheated by the decision and his own failure to fight to his strengths...Believe me he wanted a rematch

Agree and he would have probably won it but it still ranks to me as one of the best displays of boxing ( in the true sense of the word) that i have ever seen bearing in mind Leonards inactivity and moving up a weight to fight the top man ( esp the cr*p display he gave against kevin howard!). As I say hagler let the tactics of the fight play against him.

Marvin was bitter for years after the Leonard stunner, a fight he essentially 'blew' by allowing Leonard to get to him mentally. He deserved a rematch and his world fell apart when he failed to get Ray back in the ring. He went through a messy divorce, found himself belittled by Leonard himself ("I messed up his life") and eventually left the United States altogether to settle in Italy (where he was always popular as a fighter).
He's now mellowed and can look back on his career without pain. He gave a lovely interview recently which summed up his peace of mind:


What do you remember about the fight against Tommy Hearns, considered
by many as the greatest fight of all time?

There was no love there between Tommy and myself. We respect each other now, but there was no love there and that fight was war. I trained very hard for that fight. I worked really hard on my combinations and my power and all the things that I needed to do in order to win. That Tommy Hearns fight would have to be the highlight of my career because I needed that one outstanding fight to show the world that I was a great champion.


How do you feel when you watch that fight on tape?

I get chills all through my body again because you remember so well being in the heat of the battle and what was happening. I can see how the people think that fight was one of the best fights in history. Because it was war. That fight showed my ability and what people appreciated about my fighting. I was glad I was able to show that - to gain, finally, that respect for being a great world champion. It took me a long time to gain that respect and that's what I wanted to end up with. Not to be a great champion but to know that I was the best one out there at the time. That's what I strived for. Not the greatness. I think the greatness the public puts on you when you're finished. Then they can say you're great.


All athletes love the competition but not necessarily the preparation. What about you?

For me, I loved training. That was the easiest part about the fight game because I loved being in shape and I loved training. I really pushed my body to its limit inside the gym. The main thing is not trying to leave all your fight inside the gym. But I realized that what you do inside the gym you have to do in the ring. So I practiced very hard, and sometimes what you do in the gym can make the fight that much easier.


Is there a fight you remember having more butterflies for than another?

I liked to get the butterflies because then I knew I would do well. If you don't get the butterflies then it feels as though you're going into the ring too overconfident, and that is when you can find your butt on the deck. I'd rather see the other guy's butt on the deck.


It's no secret you wanted a rematch with Sugar Ray and you were upset
he did not offer you one.

I thought he should have given me a rematch. I think if I was the champion, I would have given him the rematch. With the fight between me and Leonard, there was no knockdown or anything like that. So there's nothing that you can say to convince me why I still wasn't champion. That is all in the past and I'm looking for the future. But it did take me a while to get through it because to me it wasn't justice. It hurt a lot. We challenged Leonard for a rematch and waited around for a whole year. I knew the kind of games he was playing. Basically, they were waiting for me to get older so he would think my timing was gone and he could take advantage of that. For me, he just didn't have the heart of a champion. The way that I saw it, he should've given me the opportunity for a rematch. And after that, I starting seeing him playing games. So then, I just thought: 'Forget this guy. This guy really doesn't want to fight.' I felt as though I had accomplished everything in my career and the only thing left for me to do was to have a rematch with him. Things like this happen.
It's the boxing game and it just wasn't there.


When did you know that you could be a great fighter?

After the fight with Bennie Briscoe, the top dog in Philadelphia, I really knew I had the ability of becoming a champion. After that fight, Briscoe gave me the best comment of all saying, 'You're going to be champion.' That inspired me because this was a world-ranked contender who had fought for the title three times. By me beating him, I realized I was on my way then.


In your mind, who was the greatest fighter of all time?

Naturally, the first thought that comes to mind would have to be Muhammad Ali. He was a tremendous athlete and he was the man for the sport. He brought the highlights, the money and everthing to the sport, especially the art, the real good art of boxing. Ali is more my time. But before my time, it would have to be Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano.


You are from the same hometown as Rocky Marciano. Did that have any impact on you?

He was a great inspiration for me. Now in Brockton, we have two world champions in a town that no one really knows about. It's a shoe city that produced two world champions. I had a great following from people in Brockton and a lot of people at that time had great hopes for me. This enabled me to push and to put that sacrifice in there and bring the things that I wanted - the big fights.

I read that you wanted to be a baseball player but that changed after
you met Floyd Patterson.

Floyd Patterson was my idol when I was a young kid growing up. This guy had a lot of heart. He was a good boxer and he was the youngest heavyweight to win the title at that time. I was really impressed with him. He gave me an education about being a gentleman. Every time I had seen this guy inside the ring, he was a tough warrior. But when he was outside, he was a total gentleman. And that was the way that I really wanted to carry myself.


What has boxing given you?

I loved the boxing game. It's been good to me. It's been a great education for me, a teacher not only inside the ring but in life totally. Just looking at life and feeling good about yourself and your accomplishments. I believe I had a gift from God. It took a lot of time just mastering that art. That's the way I always took my boxing, as an art. I played it like a man but I enjoyed it like a boy.

McGuigan wrote:How did others read this fight. Just out of interest.

Hagler won the fight no question.

Leonard was just "flashy" and had the crowd practically screaming with delight every time he landed a soft jab on Hagler. This influenced the judges in my opnion.

Hagler won by 3 rounds clear, and the decision was a disgrace.

How you can systematically beat someone around the ring for over half the fight and still end of losing is beyond me...

J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.

Yes.. but I think he retired in protest at at what a joke the decision was.

Loftgroov wrote:

McGuigan wrote:How did others read this fight. Just out of interest.

Hagler won the fight no question.

Leonard was just "flashy" and had the crowd practically screaming with delight every time he landed a soft jab on Hagler. This influenced the judges in my opnion.

Hagler won by 3 rounds clear, and the decision was a disgrace.

How you can systematically beat someone around the ring for over half the fight and still end of losing is beyond me...

The weight of a punch is irrelevant. leonard outscored and outboxed him. Jim watt and Reg Gutteridge both called it.

Having watched the fight numerous times.. there is no way I will ever be convinced by anyone that Sugar Ray genuinely won that fight ..he didn't.

Hagler was robbed basically.

Sugar Ray won the early rounds, but for the majority of the fight Hagler was easily on top.

Have a look at Sugar Ray's face in the final round ...christ the bell couldn't come quick enough.

Sugar Ray is the "All American" style pinup boy that all the Yanks lap up... he was just gifted a poor decision.

Loftgroov wrote:Having watched the fight numerous times.. there is no way I will ever be convinced by anyone that Sugar Ray genuinely won that fight ..he didn't.

Hagler was robbed basically.

Sugar Ray won the early rounds, but for the majority of the fight Hagler was easily on top.

Have a look at Sugar Ray's face in the final round ...christ the bell couldn't come quick enough.

Sugar Ray is the "All American" style pinup boy that all the Yanks lap up... he was just gifted a poor decision.

Have also watched the fight numerous times. Leonard won the last round. You'll remember the flurry of about 20 punches to Haglers head in the last round. Hagler didn't know what to do.

Leonard won the last round????

Loftgroov wrote:Leonard won the last round????

would you say hagler landed more punches in the last round.

I remember a TV interview Leonard did with great British boxing writer Hugh McIlvanney around 1990. McIlvanney was impressing Leonard with his use of long words and boxing knowledge, then almost casually happened to mention he thought Hagler won their fight. Leonard shook his head, got up and walked out. McIlvanney's face was hilarious.
Just for the record, I thought Hagler lost the fight more than Leonard won it.

it was a lot closer than mosely / de la hoya thats for frigging sure. That result did suck in my opinion.

Last time I watched it I had leonard by 2 pts but when I first saw it as a kid I remember feeling Hagler was robbed and since then I had watched it and scored it to hagler bout ten years ago.

Dunno I would need to watch it yet again and concentrate and score it to the best of my ability. (which isnt much). At least it wasnt a draw a la pacman marquez.

Loftgroov wrote:Leonard won the last round????

Well I'm not the only one who thinks so...here...
if the link works...
http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?1028037

McGuigan wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:Leonard won the last round????

Well I'm not the only one who thinks so...here...
if the link works...
http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?1028037

Nice Edit

I've seen that before ... it says something like "Who the f**k are Leeds Utd"

You'll always get a 50/50 split when asking people who won this fight.
Leonard won it for me, but I'll never convince my mate, who to this day argues Hagler won.

Hagler played into Leonard's hands: he should've stormed in like he did in the Hearns fight, taking a ring rusty Leonard by surprise.
But instead, in the first half of the fight, he was trying to out box the boxer, and coming off 2nd best.
Then later in the fight, Hagler raises his hands and does a shuffle ( or something like that ) when have you EVER seen Hagler pull a move like that? He just didn't fight his fight IMO.
The ninth round was a classic.

The first time I watched it I thought Leonard won it, but I was a lot more impressionable back then, and it was fashionable to support Leonard in that fight.

The second time I watched it was a few years back, and I thought Hagler had done enough.

I would like to sit down and watch it again to see what I think now.

MightyWarrior wrote:You'll always get a 50/50 split when asking people who won this fight.
Leonard won it for me, but I'll never convince my mate, who to this day argues Hagler won.

Hagler played into Leonard's hands: he should've stormed in like he did in the Hearns fight, taking a ring rusty Leonard by surprise.
But instead, in the first half of the fight, he was trying to out box the boxer, and coming off 2nd best.
Then later in the fight, Hagler raises his hands and does a shuffle ( or something like that ) when have you EVER seen Hagler pull a move like that? He just didn't fight his fight IMO.
The ninth round was a classic.

If the object of boxing is to hit without being hit leonard won it. good point about the Hagler showboating. It was in the last round as a retort to leonard doing it and summed up the fight for me. Agreed the Ninth round was a classic.

Leonard totally psyched Hagler out, he was the smarter of the two men and it showed, he made Hagler feel he had to prove something, because Leonard was always the golden boy, and Hagler always felt he had come up the harder route and yet got less respect for it, which is true to a degree.

Hagler should have just jumped on him from the off, instead he gave 4 whole rounds away trying to prove he was the better technician, which he wasn't.