BoxRec

Considering the definition of Heavyweight has changed over time, many former "Heavyweight" champions would not be classed as Heavyweights today. For example, Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano.

If we are to use the modern definition of a Heavyweight (200Lb+), how would you trace the historical lineal Heavyweight championship?

If you use the following rules, I trace it like this from 1920:

Start with highest ranked Heavyweight per BoxRec in 1920 who had either fought at 200+ or against somebody 200+ in past year.
Lineal progression (beat the man).
Defences only count if vs. opponent with loss% <25% at time of fight.
Allowed 1 year between valid defences. After 1 year timebank of 3 years starts depleting.
Stripped of title if timebank empties.
Vacancy filled by undisputed champion / highest Boxrec Ranked fighter who had either fought at 200+ or against somebody 200+ in past year.

01/01/1920 Harry Wills
02/01/1922 Bill Tate
21/06/1922 Jack Thompson
19/07/1922 Battling Owens
22/09/1922 Sam Langford
27/07/1923 Clem Johnson
08/10/1923 Battling Jim McCreary
25/11/1924 Sully Montgomery
23/12/1924 Jim Maloney
20/05/1927 Jack Sharkey
29/06/1933 Primo Carnera
14/06/1934 Max Baer
13/06/1935 Jim Braddock
11/06/1940 Joe Louis
26/03/1946 Lee Q. Murray
09/06/1947 Jimmy Bivins
06/02/1950 Sid Peaks
29/05/1950 Bob Baker
23/11/1951 Clarence Henry
21/11/1956 Tommy Jackson
13/11/1957 Eddie Machen
07/09/1960 Sonny Liston
25/02/1964 Muhammad Ali
08/03/1971 Joe Frazier
22/01/1973 George Foreman
30/10/1974 Muhammad Ali
15/02/1978 Leon Spinks
15/09/1978 Muhammad Ali
15/09/1980 Larry Holmes
21/09/1985 Michael Spinks
27/06/1988 Mike Tyson
11/02/1990 James Douglas
25/10/1990 Evander Holyfield
13/11/1992 Riddick Bowe
06/11/1993 Evander Holyfield
22/04/1994 Michael Moorer
05/11/1994 George Foreman
22/11/1997 Shannon Briggs
28/03/1998 Lennox Lewis
22/04/2001 Hasim Rahman
17/11/2001 Lennox Lewis
07/06/2007 Wladimir Klitschko

Why would anyone bother to 'trace' (create) a brand new historical lineal Heavyweight championship?

What about light-heavyweight champions who weighed in 168 or lower? Shall we erase those men from history as well?

The concept of demoting great fighters of the past because they didn't have the 'foresight' to box as an Overweight, like a Shannon Briggs or a Chris Arreola, is deranged.

It's not a question of demoting or erasing, but of reclassifying. I imagine these fighters would be lineal champions in their actual weight class (e.g. Dempsey would be a Cruiserweight champion).

Simon, there is no minimum weight. You could theoretically weight 8 stone and be heavyweight champ. But I guess it's an interesting exercise...

Simon Lock wrote:It's not a question of demoting or erasing, but of reclassifying. I imagine these fighters would be lineal champions in their actual weight class (e.g. Dempsey would be a Cruiserweight champion).

But that presupposes Dempsey would have remained at that weight if boxing today. You are wasting your time.

In 2100 will our reanimated crynonic heads argue over reclassifying Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe, because the only men still interested in boxing are 300lb Slavic doormen? Answer me that Simon! Answer me that!

Who doesn't want to live in a world where Joe Louis was stripped of the championship and Roberto Delfino finally rules the world?

Well said! 80 years ago the heavyweight champ weighed more than the champ now! Taller too!


quote="Tuan_Jim"]

Simon Lock wrote:It's not a question of demoting or erasing, but of reclassifying. I imagine these fighters would be lineal champions in their actual weight class (e.g. Dempsey would be a Cruiserweight champion).

But that presupposes Dempsey would have remained at that weight if boxing today. You are wasting your time.

In 2100 will our reanimated crynonic heads argue over reclassifying Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe, because the only men still interested in boxing are 300lb Slavic doormen? Answer me that Simon! Answer me that![/quote]

evrenb wrote:Well said! 80 years ago the heavyweight champ weighed more than the champ now! Taller too!

Yep. Go tell him that Dempsey wasn't a real heavyweight.

Wlad K boxed 36 minutes in a state of high terror versus a bulked up 190lb man. A 190lb man who is probably the hardest one-punch hitter in the division.

Ah come on it's still interesting. It's not like he is showing up at the Dempsey household and confiscating the belt he just made a "what if" list.
I thought it was an interesting piece of research.

I've done the same for the Cruiserweight division. There are a large number of title strips, maybe this should be reduced by allowing 2 years between defences?

01/01/1920 - Jack Dempsey
02/07/1922 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
02/07/1922 - Gene Tunney
22/09/1928 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
22/09/1928 - Young Stribling
27/02/1929 - Jack Sharkey
12/06/1930 - Max Schmeling
12/06/1931 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
12/06/1931 - Jack Sharkey
22/07/1932 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
22/07/1932 - Stanley Poreda
22/07/1933 - King Levinsky
22/07/1934 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
22/07/1934 - Steve Hamas
10/03/1935 - Max Schmeling
19/06/1937 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
19/06/1937 - Joe Louis
22/06/1939 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
22/06/1939 - Max Schmeling
02/07/1940 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
02/07/1940 - Bob Pastor
06/09/1940 - Billy Conn
18/06/1941 - Joe Louis
18/06/1942 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
18/06/1942 - Billy Conn
18/06/1943 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
18/06/1943 - Jimmy Bivins
25/02/1946 - Jersey Joe Walcott
28/08/1946 - Joey Maxim
06/01/1947 - Jersey Joe Walcott
23/06/1948 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
23/06/1948 - Elmer Ray
08/03/1950 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
08/03/1950 - Ezzard Charles
18/07/1951 - Jersey Joe Walcott
23/09/1952 - Rocky Marciano
17/09/1955 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
17/09/1955 - Bob Satterfield
20/03/1956 - Harold Carter
23/05/1956 - Johnny Summerlin
20/06/1956 - Bob Satterfield
01/08/1956 - Harold Carter
07/09/1957 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
07/09/1957 - Floyd Patterson
26/06/1959 - Ingemar Johansson
20/06/1960 - Floyd Patterson
04/12/1962 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
04/12/1962 - Eddie Machen
05/07/1964 - Floyd Patterson
05/07/1965 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
05/07/1965 - Ernie Terrell
05/07/1966 - Karl Mildenberger
21/03/1968 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
21/03/1968 - Jimmy Ellis
14/09/1969 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
14/09/1969 - Henry Cooper
14/09/1970 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
14/09/1970 - Gregorio Peralta
10/09/1972 - Floyd Patterson
10/09/1973 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
10/09/1973 - Gregorio Peralta
26/10/1974 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
26/10/1974 - Bunny Johnson
26/11/1977 - Aldo Traversaro
05/09/1979 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
05/09/1979 - Marvin Camel
25/11/1980 - Carlos De Leon
25/11/1981 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
25/11/1981 - Marvin Camel
24/02/1982 - Carlos De Leon
27/06/1982 - S.T Gordon
17/07/1983 - Carlos De Leon
06/06/1985 - Alfonzo Ratliff
21/09/1985 - Bernard Benton
22/03/1986 - Carlos De Leon
09/04/1988 - Evander Holyfield
09/04/1989 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
09/04/1989 - Glenn McCrory
22/03/1990 - Jeff Lampkin
28/07/1991 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
28/07/1991 - Anaclet Wamba
30/12/1995 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
30/12/1995 - Adolpho Washington
21/06/1997 - Uriah Grant
08/11/1997 - Imamu Mayfield
30/10/1998 - Arthur Williams
05/06/1999 - Vassiliy Jirov
01/02/2003 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
01/02/2003 - James Toney
01/02/2004 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
01/02/2004 - Jean Marc Mormeck
07/01/2006 - O'Neil Bell
07/01/2007 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
07/01/2007 - David Haye
08/03/2009 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
08/03/2009 - Tomasz Adamek
11/07/2010 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
11/07/2010 - Steve Cunningham
11/07/2011 - STRIPPED OF TITLE
11/07/2011 - Marco Huck

Your lists and title lineages are bizarre Simon. The Cruiserweight title lineage starts 60 years before there ever was such a division?

Plus the way you put "Stripped of Title" on guys that never held that title in the first place is extremely odd as well.

gilgamesh wrote:Your lists and title lineages are bizarre Simon. The Cruiserweight title lineage starts 60 years before there ever was such a division?

Plus the way you put "Stripped of Title" on guys that never held that title in the first place is extremely odd as well.

This is an attempt to see who would have been champion if the Cruiserweight division were in existence at the time.

The policy of stripping a title and filling a vacancy is explained in my earlier post.

It's interesting and thanks for giving it a go.

Obviously some of these fights would never have happened if titles were on the line...

Honestly this too wierd for me.

Archie Moore is my favorite fighter of all time.

I'd love to imagine that he held the HW title.

So of the many "imaginary" scenarios that could be posted, this is pleasing to read.


But the problem here is simply....it just aint so.