BoxRec

sugar ray robinson

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Ali

Ali

Wladimir Klitschko

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Ali

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I'm always amazed at this. I've never understood how even knowledgable boxing people seem to lose their rationality where Ali is concerned.
He's certainly my top heavyweight of all time (just edging Louis), but his achievements surely don't come close to matching up to the likes of Robinson and Armstrong?
These guys moved up through weights, dominated for years, defeated hordes of top-class opposition, fought far more fights etc

Walker Smith Jr

Robinson

Best of the last 20 years: Ricardo Lopez

Know what you mean Deserter but when it comes to picking your favourite fighter I suppose it's like picking the pound-for-pound best – it's open to interpretation and the criteria you use.

Doesn't matter who I've watched, read about etc, personally, I just have to choose Ali purely on versatility, ie great fighter who changed the face of boxing and transcended the sport.

Plus, he was pretty much the perfect fighting machine before his enforced lay-off and it's frightening to think how good he may have become. We never saw the peak Ali. They go on about the Cleveland Williams fight being his finest, but watch him against Zora Folley – he's lightning and the punches he knocks him out with are beautiful.

As great as SRR and Armstrong were, Ali's the man for me. As long as I live I'll never be able to read/see enough about the man as a fighter and historical icon. A legend.[/i]

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Know what you mean Deserter but when it comes to picking your favourite fighter I suppose it's like picking the pound-for-pound best – it's open to interpretation and the criteria you use.

Doesn't matter who I've watched, read about etc, personally, I just have to choose Ali purely on versatility, ie great fighter who changed the face of boxing and transcended the sport.

Plus, he was pretty much the perfect fighting machine before his enforced lay-off and it's frightening to think how good he may have become. We never saw the peak Ali. They go on about the Cleveland Williams fight being his finest, but watch him against Zora Folley – he's lightning and the punches he knocks him out with are beautiful.

As great as SRR and Armstrong were, Ali's the man for me. As long as I live I'll never be able to read/see enough about the man as a fighter and historical icon. A legend.[/i]

Fair enough mate

The one and only Ray Robinson.

Deserter wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Ali

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I'm always amazed at this. I've never understood how even knowledgable boxing people seem to lose their rationality where Ali is concerned.
He's certainly my top heavyweight of all time (just edging Louis), but his achievements surely don't come close to matching up to the likes of Robinson and Armstrong?
These guys moved up through weights, dominated for years, defeated hordes of top-class opposition, fought far more fights etc

Yes, but, as you know Deserter, Ali transcended the sport with his personality and, but for those three-and-half-years taken away from him, would probably never have lost till Leon Spinks beat him as an old man in 1978. This, in the greatest era for heavyweights ever.
What I find remarkable about the man, is even little old ladies in this country knew who Cassius Clay was when he first came over to fight Henry Cooper. And that was before he even won the title! Greatness comes in many forms. Ali's ability to get people talking about him, mostly because they loathed him at first, was unprecedented in boxing. All the standard hype before fights today, seen as necessary by the fighters and the promoters, stems from Ali. He changed the game.

bennie wrote:Yes, but, as you know Deserter, Ali transcended the sport with his personality and, but for those three-and-half-years taken away from him, would probably never have lost till Leon Spinks beat him as an old man in 1978.

Fair points again, but in response I'd say:

1) I would argue that his personality transcending the sport and the fact that little old ladies knew him is irrelevant to judging him as a BOXER. If we use this criteria then we end up elevating Butterbean above the likes of Larry Holmes.

2) You're probably right about those years being taken away from him but the fact is we'll never know so we can't talk about what, ifs and maybes - there are so many fighters we could apply that to otherwise. Equally, the flipside could have happened and a lot more could have been taken out of him during those years - unlikely admittedly, but the point is we don't know. When judging any boxer we can surely only do it on facts ie. what they achieved.

Deserter wrote:

bennie wrote:Yes, but, as you know Deserter, Ali transcended the sport with his personality and, but for those three-and-half-years taken away from him, would probably never have lost till Leon Spinks beat him as an old man in 1978.

Fair points again, but in response I'd say:

If we use this criteria then we end up elevating Butterbean above the likes of Larry Holmes.

Good line, Deserter. Incidentally, I wonder how many people would have answered Roy Jones Junior to this question just a few weeks ago!

Very true. I, for one, am completely confused now as to what Jones's legacy will be and where I place him on the all-time list.
If he really wants to be regarded as a great that a third fight against Tarver, in which he triumphs convincingly, is a must. But judging by his comments to date I don't think this will happen.

Hard to pick, but one of the following.

Either, Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp.

Pernell Whitaker.

Julio Cesar Chavez was onr of my favs

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Pernell Whitaker.

Good call. Very under-rated in terms of the all-time lists in my opinion.

Ring have him at number ten.

One below Sugar Ray Leonard.

Pernell was a fantastic fighter, one of my favourites, but not the best.

Ray Robinson

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Pernell was a fantastic fighter, one of my favourites, but not the best.

What did he not do that was not up there with the best??

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Ring have him at number ten.

One below Sugar Ray Leonard.

Do you have the full list to hand? The top twenty might be interesting to look at.

Southpaw Stylist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Pernell was a fantastic fighter, one of my favourites, but not the best.

What did he not do that was not up there with the best??

He let himself down after he retired.

From the top of my head

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6.Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker