BoxRec

Supposed Ali would had kept fighting and fought Frazier In 1968 without the 3 year inactivity?

Ali stops him in round 12 due to bad facial damage...ali was four rounds clear at the time.

evrenb wrote:Ali stops him in round 12 due to bad facial damage...ali was four rounds clear at the time.

Thanks for the laughs, knucklehead.

I think a younger, faster Ali would have outpointed Frazier by a wide margin.
Ali would probably have been at his peak in 1968/1969 and gone on to overtake Joe Louis' record of title defences.

Ali stops Frazier in about 10 rounds.

There is no trilogy.

yancey wrote:

evrenb wrote:Ali stops him in round 12 due to bad facial damage...ali was four rounds clear at the time.

Thanks for the laughs, knucklehead.

I think a fair unbiased (please look this up) view. There is no point arguing with you.
A poor version of Ali took Frazier close when Joe was at his prime. Ali beat Joe comfortably on two other occasions. When Ali was further past his best than Joe...these are the facts. Ali 2 Frazier 1. A serious focused Ali would have beaten Joe in 1968. Wouldnt pick many others over Smoke tho...

Giancarlo wrote:Ali stops Frazier in about 10 rounds.

There is no trilogy.

Frazier flattens Ali in 3.

And then asks for the money back he loaned Ali.

Agree, no trilogy.

evrenb wrote:

yancey wrote:

evrenb wrote:Ali stops him in round 12 due to bad facial damage...ali was four rounds clear at the time.

Thanks for the laughs, knucklehead.

I think a fair unbiased (please look this up) view. There is no point arguing with you.
A poor version of Ali took Frazier close when Joe was at his prime. Ali beat Joe comfortably on two other occasions. When Ali was further past his best than Joe...these are the facts. Ali 2 Frazier 1. A serious focused Ali would have beaten Joe in 1968. Wouldnt pick many others over Smoke tho...

If you think Ali-Frazier II and III were comfortable wins, you need to watch them again! Frazier was a stylistic nightmare for Ali, who needed to hold him repeatedly to win their second fight (which I score for Ali by a single point). They were both past time for the third fight but Frazier moreso - I had Ali up 9-5 before Joe's corner pulled the plug, but Ali admittedly to feeling "close to death" after the fight.

The only prime fighter we ever saw in an Ali-Frazier fight was Frazier in 1971. Had they fought in 1968, Ali would have been in his prime and possibly better than we ever saw him. Frazier was at the start of his prime, but had yet to fight anyone of Ali's calibre. I think it would have been an excellent fight and the toughest of Ali's career to date. I think Ali wins a clear decision with judges scores around the 10-5, 9-6 mark. I also think they would have gone on to fight again, though if Ali wins the rematch there's no third fight.

Pretty much the same result. Ali has 3 worth of miles on the clock. Frazier seems just another challenger...nothing special. Ali doesn't take him lightly but he's not super psyched for it either... These factors more than make up for any possible loss of sharpness.

Ezzard wrote:Pretty much the same result. Ali has 3 worth of miles on the clock. Frazier seems just another challenger...nothing special. Ali doesn't take him lightly but he's not super psyched for it either... These factors more than make up for any possible loss of sharpness.

Hi

I do not understand your post.

yancey wrote:Frazier flattens Ali in 3.

So how come a peak Frazier couldn't do that to the slower Ali he fought in 1971?

evrenb wrote:Ali beat Joe comfortably on two other occasions.

Really? That's how you saw it, fair and unbiased?

I don't know who would have won in 1968, possibly Frazier by decision. I do know that it would not have been easy for either man. They fought each other to a standstill three times in some of the most grueling fights ever seen and it would have been no different in 1968.

Comfortably as in the scorecards...yes their fights would never be easy.

An Ali that never left competition would be much sharper and liklely beats Frazier convincingly.

SteveO wrote:

yancey wrote:Frazier flattens Ali in 3.

So how come a peak Frazier couldn't do that to the slower Ali he fought in 1971?

I knew there would be someone dumb enough to take me serious.

You're it, Steve.

Sorry.

hhaehre wrote:

evrenb wrote:Ali beat Joe comfortably on two other occasions.

Really? That's how you saw it, fair and unbiased?

I don't know who would have won in 1968, possibly Frazier by decision. I do know that it would not have been easy for either man. They fought each other to a standstill three times in some of the most grueling fights ever seen and it would have been no different in 1968.

You are, of course, quite correct.

1968 Frazier-Ali would have been a titanic affair.

Ali NEVER faced someone REMOTELY like Frazier in the '60s. It would have been a hell of a fight. It would ALWAYS be a hell of a fight. Frazier had the relentless, pressing, left hooking style to ALWAYS cause Ali big problems.

Ali MIGHT have won a close decision in '68, but the notion that he stops tougher than nails '68 Frazier is just all wrong and spectacularly stupid.

It is ridiculous how some of these Ali fantasia boys here somehow have convinced themselves that '60s Ali was somehow on this whole different level from what he was on 3/8/71.

You want the truth, fantasia boys?

Ali of 3/8/71 fought one of his BEST fights ever and was a tougher, stronger, smarter fighter than he ever was fighting those stiffs in the '60s.

I just wish Frazier had not been dealing with medical issues and coming off a fractured ankle with the accompanied ring rust when he fought Ali in 1971.

1969 Frazier (his real peak) stops any version of Ali late, or gets a close decision.

p.s. I commend an earlier poster for understanding that the Frazier of Manila was definitely further from his peak than the Ali of same.

We will never know of course. People have their opinions, some stronger than others. Frazier is my top 3 fav fighters along with Foreman and Ali.
Regarding stiffs : sonny liston a stiff? He would have destroyed Frazier1969 version against the version of 1964 Liston. No question.
And the facts are this Ali 2 Frazier 1.

evrenb wrote:We will never know of course. People have their opinions, some stronger than others. Frazier is my top 3 fav fighters along with Foreman and Ali.
Regarding stiffs : sonny liston a stiff? He would have destroyed Frazier1969 version against the version of 1964 Liston. No question.
And the facts are this Ali 2 Frazier 1.

Maybe I should have said "stiffs/cripples/tank jobs".

That would have been more inclusive.

My bad.

yancey wrote:

evrenb wrote:We will never know of course. People have their opinions, some stronger than others. Frazier is my top 3 fav fighters along with Foreman and Ali.
Regarding stiffs : sonny liston a stiff? He would have destroyed Frazier1969 version against the version of 1964 Liston. No question.
And the facts are this Ali 2 Frazier 1.

Maybe I should have said "stiffs/cripples/tank jobs".

That would have been more inclusive.

My bad.

You are being silly Yancey.

yancey wrote:

SteveO wrote:

yancey wrote:Frazier flattens Ali in 3.

So how come a peak Frazier couldn't do that to the slower Ali he fought in 1971?

I knew there would be someone dumb enough to take me serious.

You're it, Steve.

Sorry.

Doh!

Yancey and I both agree that this fight is a good fight which Ali wins after being knocked down twice (once in the first round with a controversial long count) this fight goes the distance with the other knockdown in the last round. Controversial scoring gives this fight to Ali a bit to easily. Frazier deflated, gets out of boxing and goes on the road with his musical act and enjoys it so much he splits his time between training other fighters and his singing career. He scores one top ten hit with "first round KO", and becomes a soul pop star. He then scores another hit with "I'm no one hit wonder". And makes a living off those two songs for the rest of his life.

Yancey buys a car lot, and sells used vehicles and never joins a boxing forum

evrenb wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Pretty much the same result. Ali has 3 worth of miles on the clock. Frazier seems just another challenger...nothing special. Ali doesn't take him lightly but he's not super psyched for it either... These factors more than make up for any possible loss of sharpness.

Hi

I do not understand your post.

If Ali fought for those 3 years maybe he would have deteriorated even more. 3 years maybe means 10 fights... Perhaps he wins them easily. Maybe he doesn't. But if the idea is he'd have been sharper I'm arguing he may have been more worn out. More mentally jaded. Less likely to have seen Frazier as a real threat.

The lay off etc... made Ali a man on a mission with something to prove. My feeling is he gained more in and out of the ring with the lay off than without.

Hi

I respect your opinion. Being as this fantasy fight is 1968 it was only about 9 months away from Ali's enforced retirement. Ali was only fighting so regularly because he knew his fate was iminent.

He would have had two or three fights. He was sublime in those championship years and was getting better...and better...

Evren

BoxBuzz wrote:Yancey and I both agree that this fight is a good fight which Ali wins after being knocked down twice (once in the first round with a controversial long count) this fight goes the distance with the other knockdown in the last round. Controversial scoring gives this fight to Ali a bit to easily. Frazier deflated, gets out of boxing and goes on the road with his musical act and enjoys it so much he splits his time between training other fighters and his singing career. He scores one top ten hit with "first round KO", and becomes a soul pop star. He then scores another hit with "I'm no one hit wonder". And makes a living off those two songs for the rest of his life.

Yancey buys a car lot, and sells used vehicles and never joins a boxing forum

And the worst lemon gets sold to you at a rip off price.

I sell the lot, become Joe's manager, and we wave at you standing in an oil puddle as I drive Joe to the next show.

Ezzard wrote: If Ali fought for those 3 years maybe he would have deteriorated even more.

The fantasy fight is 1968.