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Can that most famous right hand of Rocky that ko Walcott in the first fight. could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali - knocked down, gets up to win on cuts.
Foreman - knocked down, gets up to knock Marciano out.
Liston - knocked down,
Holmes - knocked down, gets up to stop Marciano on cuts.
Tyson - knocked down, gets up and is stopped on his feet.
Dempsey - insufficient evidence.
Lewis - knocked down, stays down.
Holyfield - badly hurt but stays on his feet, rallies to win a close decision.
Bowe - knocked down, gets back up and is stopped on his feet.
Vitali - badly hurt but stays upright, fights on to win a wide decision.
Wlad - knocked down, gets back up, falls back down, ref stops the fight.

For the record, I would take Tyson, Lewis and Bowe to beat Marciano - but not if he nailed them with the Suzie Q that he got Walcott with.

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history?

I would say so. The secret to Marciano's success doesn't just lie his punching power, it's also the unceasing pressure that he puts on his opponent. You could say that guys like Foreman, Shavers & Liston also have the power to KO anyone, but would they be willing to constatly batter their opponents for a full 15 rounds in the way that Marciano did?

marchegianorock wrote:Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali has shown that he's not indestructible when Ken Norton broke his jaw, Marciano could do the same thing - the only problem is, would Marciano be able to catach him? I believe that he would eventually.

Foreman, Tyson and Liston were bullies, the have shown that they can dish out the punishment, but they cant take it back, well not a lot of it.

As for Lennox Lewis, the right punch KOs him (as seen against Rahman) and I believe Marciano would have KO'd Riddick Bowe.

Holyfield has the heart of a warrior, but I believe that Rocky's pressure would end up stopping him - maybe with a body attack.

As for the Klitschskos, nothing I have seen from their careers convinces me that they could handle Marciano. We've never really seen them in the trenches 0 the way that Marciano & Ali were. These guys were just far superior to their opponents, and looking at the earlier part of his career, Wladimir is definitely KO able when in trouble.

jezzamundo wrote:

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali - knocked down, gets up to win on cuts.
Foreman - knocked down, gets up to knock Marciano out.
Liston - knocked down,
Holmes - knocked down, gets up to stop Marciano on cuts.
Tyson - knocked down, gets up and is stopped on his feet.
Dempsey - insufficient evidence.
Lewis - knocked down, stays down.
Holyfield - badly hurt but stays on his feet, rallies to win a close decision.
Bowe - knocked down, gets back up and is stopped on his feet.
Vitali - badly hurt but stays upright, fights on to win a wide decision.
Wlad - knocked down, gets back up, falls back down, ref stops the fight.

For the record, I would take Tyson, Lewis and Bowe to beat Marciano - but not if he nailed them with the Suzie Q that he got Walcott with.

It may look like a fairly good assessment if we talk about spherical Rocky in vacuum, but ithink most of these big guys wouldn't even go down. Marciano reminds me of Kovalev, who is pretty good lhw, but probably would never make it to the top in today's hw div (but he possibly could in Marciano's era). On the other note Dempsey, who was smaller hw, was koed in 1 round by a journeyman Flynn and knocked down for a long count by another small hw in Tunney. What's inconclusive about that?

Lewis and Wlad at least were sent down by the big guys who carried decent power. And even if Marciano could get a lucky shot right to the button with his best effort, I can easily see them both standing up, leaning back and clinching for some time until they recuperate. And of course winning the fight either by KO/TKO/wide UD.

Leonid wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali - knocked down, gets up to win on cuts.
Foreman - knocked down, gets up to knock Marciano out.
Liston - knocked down,
Holmes - knocked down, gets up to stop Marciano on cuts.
Tyson - knocked down, gets up and is stopped on his feet.
Dempsey - insufficient evidence.
Lewis - knocked down, stays down.
Holyfield - badly hurt but stays on his feet, rallies to win a close decision.
Bowe - knocked down, gets back up and is stopped on his feet.
Vitali - badly hurt but stays upright, fights on to win a wide decision.
Wlad - knocked down, gets back up, falls back down, ref stops the fight.

For the record, I would take Tyson, Lewis and Bowe to beat Marciano - but not if he nailed them with the Suzie Q that he got Walcott with.

It may look like a fairly good assessment if we talk about spherical Rocky in vacuum, but ithink most of these big guys wouldn't even go down. Marciano reminds me of Kovalev, who is pretty good lhw, but probably would never make it to the top in today's hw div (but he possibly could in Marciano's era). On the other note Dempsey, who was smaller hw, was koed in 1 round by a journeyman Flynn and knocked down for a long count by another small hw in Tunney. What's inconclusive about that?

Lewis and Wlad at least were sent down by the big guys who carried decent power. And even if Marciano could get a lucky shot right to the button with his best effort, I can easily see them both standing up, leaning back and clinching for some time until they recuperate. And of course winning the fight either by KO/TKO/wide UD.

Dempsey was knocked down for a long count by Tunney? You need to do some more research.

And recent research by some very competent historians leads to the conclusion that a penniless, hungry Dempsey went into the tank against Flynn . . .

When Dempsey was knocked by Tunney, he went down to one knee and didn't come close to being knocked out.

I think one thing that must be considered was the Marciano-Walcott fight, it was in the 13th round of a tough fight. That is different than being hit when you aren't tired and had already taken some good shot.

Ali would have survived at any stage. Wladimir had a glass jaw and would not have survived that punch regardless of when he got hit; most of the others are hard to say. Most had good chins but seldom got hit with that kind of punch; certainly not often late in a tough fight.

Crease wrote:

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history?

I would say so. The secret to Marciano's success doesn't just lie his punching power, it's also the unceasing pressure that he puts on his opponent. You could say that guys like Foreman, Shavers & Liston also have the power to KO anyone, but would they be willing to constatly batter their opponents for a full 15 rounds in the way that Marciano did?

marchegianorock wrote:Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali has shown that he's not indestructible when Ken Norton broke his jaw, Marciano could do the same thing - the only problem is, would Marciano be able to catach him? I believe that he would eventually.

Foreman, Tyson and Liston were bullies, the have shown that they can dish out the punishment, but they cant take it back, well not a lot of it.

As for Lennox Lewis, the right punch KOs him (as seen against Rahman) and I believe Marciano would have KO'd Riddick Bowe.

Holyfield has the heart of a warrior, but I believe that Rocky's pressure would end up stopping him - maybe with a body attack.

As for the Klitschskos, nothing I have seen from their careers convinces me that they could handle Marciano. We've never really seen them in the trenches 0 the way that Marciano & Ali were. These guys were just far superior to their opponents, and looking at the earlier part of his career, Wladimir is definitely KO able when in trouble.

Interesting that you mention Marciano's pressure would stop Holyfield in the end. I just find it hard to split them as they were both relenetless in that area. If only they were fighting in the same era, what a fight/s that/they would have been.

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

The Answer:

All of The Above.

agree - that punch settles any argument

As the boxing writer A.J Leibing put it,Walcott went down from that famous right hand,

"Like flour down a chute".

Alp's point about it being round 13 is decisive.

I think that shot at the end of a hard fought bout would KO pretty much anyone.

That wasnr so much as a punch as it was

a "Thunderbolt from Mount Olympus".

jezzamundo wrote:

marchegianorock wrote:Can that most famous right hand of Rocky could had ko any other heavyweight in history? Ali, Foreman , Liston? Holmes, Tyson? Dempsey? Lewis? Holyfield? Bowe? The Klitshkos?

Ali - knocked down, gets up to win on cuts.
Foreman - knocked down, gets up to knock Marciano out.
Liston - knocked down,
Holmes - knocked down, gets up to stop Marciano on cuts.
Tyson - knocked down, gets up and is stopped on his feet.
Dempsey - insufficient evidence.
Lewis - knocked down, stays down.
Holyfield - badly hurt but stays on his feet, rallies to win a close decision.
Bowe - knocked down, gets back up and is stopped on his feet.
Vitali - badly hurt but stays upright, fights on to win a wide decision.
Wlad - knocked down, gets back up, falls back down, ref stops the fight.

For the record, I would take Tyson, Lewis and Bowe to beat Marciano - but not if he nailed them with the Suzie Q that he got Walcott with.

Thank you for your answers. Very interesting.

Yes forgot to say that if that punch landed late in the fight or early? I do not know, but would be interesting to had that technology to measure that punch.

Ali - knocked down, gets up to win on cuts.
Foreman - stunned, take some time to regroup and went on to knock Marciano out. He would outweight Maciano by 50 Pounds though.
Liston - knocked down, probably the ref wave it off
Holmes - knocked down, gets up to stop Marciano on cuts.
Tyson - knocked down, gets up and is stopped on his feet.
Dempsey - don't know
Lewis - knocked down, may get up at 8 but to0 shaky, the ref. wave it off.
Holyfield - may take a knee or flash knocked down but recover to win on cut or points.
Bowe - knocked down, shocked but gets back up and is stop the much smaller guy in the next round.
Vitali - badly hurt but stays upright, fights on to KO Maciano who is 50 pounds lighter.
Wlad - knocked down, gets back up, falls back down, ref stops the fight.

Foreman during his prime outweighed Marciano by "only" about 35 pounds. Foreman had a good chin but he could be hurt.
If Vitali fought in Marciano's day, it would hard to guess how big he would have been without the steroids. He certainly would have been bigger than Marciano, but he never fought anyone who had remotely close to Marciano's punching power.

Hard to say, but most of these guys probably could have survived the punch if it happened early while they were still fresh. Of course Marciano probably would have followed up on it.

In, the late rounds, most would have been in serious trouble from that one punch alone.

I think he could have finished or at least floored a fair number of other good heavys with right hand. He landed that shot as he was rushing in to finish Walcott, so that punch had momentum.