BoxRec

Hey, there's a "Shame on Showtime" topic ... about a fight that was on regular Showtime ... if you watch(ed) Ray Donovan, Dexter, or whatever else they show, it was a bullshit card, but it's easily forgiven because there won't be an extra $70 on your monthly statement.

A real shame is that Manny/Algieri will be on PPV. I don't mind the fight. It's not that bad. But I think this is more of a DLH/Forbes situation. How can you justify this fight being PPV especially considering Manny's previous PPV numbers? Add the fact that Algieri had one win of note, and even that was very disputed, and it makes you wonder why would this potentially entertaining fight be locked away on a PPV that no one is really going to buy?

On FNF, Atlas was ranting about boycotting fight cards and writing letters. He was laughed at.

But how will things change? Boxing fans seem to share the IQ of the fighters they watch. The sport has become laughable, and like politics, it has gotten to the point where people aren't even surprised by corruption, greed and bad fights. And instead of coming together and rallying against this BS, fight fans have joined sides like some kinda imaginary good guy VS bad guy and instead of fighting to improve the sport, they (WE) have fought to justify the total BS we agree with.

Shame on boxing ... more importantly, SHAME ON BOXING FANS. The greedy people who run this sport (HBO, Showtime, Arum, DLH and Haymon) don't really care to make changes when they are making money. So instead of defending Arum/HBO because you've rubbed one out thinking about Manny, call them on their BS and don't buy the fight. Let's not buy another Floyd or Manny fight until they fight each other.

Simple fixes really. However, bias and one-sided devotion to fighters/networks are stopping fight fans from demanding a better sport.

Shame on you.
Shame on me.
Shame on boxing fans.

What boxing fans should have ALL done was tune in to the Takayama/Rodriguez fight, applaud champions for unifying and be celebrating that type of fight, push networks to try and sign up to cover the Yaegashi/Gonzalez fight and give a wider scope to some of the great fights in the East.

Shame on both HBO and showtime for giving us these shitty fights.

They don't need to say yes to these types of mismatches.

you being butt hurt that Haymon and Garcia are getting a lot of heat from fans doesnt warrant a Pacquiao/Arum/TR/HBO comparison

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Hey, there's a "Shame on Showtime" topic ... about a fight that was on regular Showtime ... if you watch(ed) Ray Donovan, Dexter, or whatever else they show, it was a bullshit card, but it's easily forgiven because there won't be an extra $70 on your monthly statement.

A real shame is that Manny/Algieri will be on PPV. I don't mind the fight. It's not that bad. But I think this is more of a DLH/Forbes situation. How can you justify this fight being PPV especially considering Manny's previous PPV numbers? Add the fact that Algieri had one win of note, and even that was very disputed, and it makes you wonder why would this potentially entertaining fight be locked away on a PPV that no one is really going to buy?

On FNF, Atlas was ranting about boycotting fight cards and writing letters. He was laughed at.

But how will things change? Boxing fans seem to share the IQ of the fighters they watch. The sport has become laughable, and like politics, it has gotten to the point where people aren't even surprised by corruption, greed and bad fights. And instead of coming together and rallying against this BS, fight fans have joined sides like some kinda imaginary good guy VS bad guy and instead of fighting to improve the sport, they (WE) have fought to justify the total BS we agree with.

Shame on boxing ... more importantly, SHAME ON BOXING FANS. The greedy people who run this sport (HBO, Showtime, Arum, DLH and Haymon) don't really care to make changes when they are making money. So instead of defending Arum/HBO because you've rubbed one out thinking about Manny, call them on their BS and don't buy the fight. Let's not buy another Floyd or Manny fight until they fight each other.

Simple fixes really. However, bias and one-sided devotion to fighters/networks are stopping fight fans from demanding a better sport.

Shame on you.
Shame on me.
Shame on boxing fans.

smdh....this mfer.

If you haven't been paying attention boxing has already become a third world country of sports unless Floyd or Manny are fighting. The small nation of hardcore fans AREN'T keeping things afloat as is all that well cuz HBO has been getting less & less money every year for probably a decade now. Showtime has seen a bit of a rise lately it seems, but thats cuz they are, minus last nite lol, the guys putting on the more entertaining fights plus having Floyd doesn't hurt.

All in all though with what HBO used to get for boxing Showtime's rise probably isn't accounting for the difference HBO has lost. And thats just major guys in the sport. There are less secondary outlets for televised boxing & more niche market moves.

If we could bar graph the money in boxing for the last 20 years I'm sure its on a downward path. They always say Rome wasn't built in a day, but Rome ain't gonna fall apart in day either & neither will boxing. Boxing is a sinking ship (not that it will ever sink ie die as is the often used & silly analogy brought up, but I think you get what I'm saying), but its not like cuz you don't buy this ppv or watch that premium channel fight or that ESPN2 card the boat will go from taking in water to the bottom of the ocean tomorrow.

The people in the sport aren't blind to the numbers. They see whats going on. Thats why TR is invading the Asian market & GBP is matching up guys that people wanna see fight more often than any other big fighter promotion (again minus last night cuz I know boxing fans are what have you done for me lately oriented more than overall impact oriented).

The biggest problem is the setup of the sport isn't done in a way that the best can fight the best.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Hey, there's a "Shame on Showtime" topic ... about a fight that was on regular Showtime ... if you watch(ed) Ray Donovan, Dexter, or whatever else they show, it was a bullshit card, but it's easily forgiven because there won't be an extra $70 on your monthly statement.

A real shame is that Manny/Algieri will be on PPV. I don't mind the fight. It's not that bad. But I think this is more of a DLH/Forbes situation. How can you justify this fight being PPV especially considering Manny's previous PPV numbers? Add the fact that Algieri had one win of note, and even that was very disputed, and it makes you wonder why would this potentially entertaining fight be locked away on a PPV that no one is really going to buy?

On FNF, Atlas was ranting about boycotting fight cards and writing letters. He was laughed at.

But how will things change? Boxing fans seem to share the IQ of the fighters they watch. The sport has become laughable, and like politics, it has gotten to the point where people aren't even surprised by corruption, greed and bad fights. And instead of coming together and rallying against this BS, fight fans have joined sides like some kinda imaginary good guy VS bad guy and instead of fighting to improve the sport, they (WE) have fought to justify the total BS we agree with.

Shame on boxing ... more importantly, SHAME ON BOXING FANS. The greedy people who run this sport (HBO, Showtime, Arum, DLH and Haymon) don't really care to make changes when they are making money. So instead of defending Arum/HBO because you've rubbed one out thinking about Manny, call them on their BS and don't buy the fight. Let's not buy another Floyd or Manny fight until they fight each other.

Simple fixes really. However, bias and one-sided devotion to fighters/networks are stopping fight fans from demanding a better sport.

Shame on you.
Shame on me.
Shame on boxing fans.

smdh....this mfer.

If you haven't been paying attention boxing has already become a third world country of sports unless Floyd or Manny are fighting. The small nation of hardcore fans AREN'T keeping things afloat as is all that well cuz HBO has been getting less & less money every year for probably a decade now. Showtime has seen a bit of a rise lately it seems, but thats cuz they are, minus last nite lol, the guys putting on the more entertaining fights plus having Floyd doesn't hurt.

All in all though with what HBO used to get for boxing Showtime's rise probably isn't accounting for the difference HBO has lost. And thats just major guys in the sport. There are less secondary outlets for televised boxing & more niche market moves.

If we could bar graph the money in boxing for the last 20 years I'm sure its on a downward path. They always say Rome wasn't built in a day, but Rome ain't gonna fall apart in day either & neither will boxing. Boxing is a sinking ship (not that it will ever sink ie die as is the often used & silly analogy brought up, but I think you get what I'm saying), but its not like cuz you don't buy this ppv or watch that premium channel fight or that ESPN2 card the boat will go from taking in water to the bottom of the ocean tomorrow.

The people in the sport aren't blind to the numbers. They see whats going on. Thats why TR is invading the Asian market & GBP is matching up guys that people wanna see fight more often than any other big fighter promotion (again minus last night cuz I know boxing fans are what have you done for me lately oriented more than overall impact oriented).

The biggest problem is the setup of the sport isn't done in a way that the best can fight the best.

Manny v Algieri isn't a PPV event. TR knows this but the contract Manny signed demands he get paid a certain amount, hence the need to make this a PPV card. I don't agree the money in the sport has declined. If anything it's risen. It only seems as though it's in decline because the money is concentrated on a select few fighters.

We need less money in the sport for awhile so we can build the fighters up to PPV status.
I think the new generation led by Joshua and Thurman will bring boxing back to it's former glories.

I think the buy numbers will prove that Pac-Algieri isn't PPV material.

Last year in China, Pacquiao vs Rios attracted fewer than 400,000 buys...a PPV disaster.
At least Rios was an exciting fighter, with somewhat of a Latino fan base. And yet the bout, held in Macau, couldn't draw peanuts in the U.S.

Now Algieri, a virtual unknown until he upset Provo, is cast as Pacquiao's undeserving challenger. And what exactly is his fan base?
Can you imagine the numbers for this bomb?

A few months ago, Arum was decrying the low buy rate for the Pac-Bradley rematch, saying that Latinos didn't purchase it and black fans were uninterested.
And now he's heading back to Macau, knowing full well that this figures to be Pacquiao's weakest drawing fight in more than a decade.

The Chinese must really be lining Arum's pockets with big bucks, for him to deliver this mismatch on PPV.

SenorPipino wrote:The Chinese must really be lining Arum's pockets with big bucks, for him to deliver this mismatch on PPV.

I wasn't even thinking about that, but you make an excellent point. For whatever reason, Arum is stockpiling money for his 90's. It's very possible that he's getting his $ regardless of the PPV bomb.

He was even shitting on the numbers Cotto/Martinez did. After making those comments, it is crazy to think he'd accept the numbers Manny/Algieri will do.

... then again, why am I expecting anything less than total hypocrisy from Bob Arum?

Speaking of Pacquiao vs. Algieri..I can't really complain about it being a PPV. $60 plus dollars is a lot to spend, or to add on to a existing cable bill. Already pay enough for cable. So I don't buy it. Not that I'm really excited about seeing a Pacquiao fight anyways. It is what it is, not much one can do except don't buy it. Watch it next week...even then most of the time I don't bother watching the replay's, Pacquiao fights like Rios,Bradley and so on, maybe watch a few rounds get bored turn it off.

SenorPipino wrote: The Chinese must really be lining Arum's pockets with big bucks, for him to deliver this mismatch on PPV.

gambling revenue in macao last year was over $45bil.
adelson owns the ventian, the biggest casino/resort in macao, and is paying for fights up front.
algieri is a converted kickboxer with a boxing title who looks like an ambercrombie and fitch model.
he is a good pick for a crowd of asian high rollers who want to see pac beat someone up.
huge ppv numbers is not a high priority for this fight.
400k ppv buys for rios is only a bad number for pac. any other ppv event with
that many buys at that price would be considered a big success

There's no shame on me!!
I don't demand better fights and boycott because I'm simply not into wasting my time, and I also can't be called to account for supporting those detriments you mentioned either, because I don't pay for sh*t.

I accept my boxing broken because that's always been the deal. We can either take it or leave it.
I'll take it.
Algeiri V Pac and all.

sucracristo wrote:

SenorPipino wrote: The Chinese must really be lining Arum's pockets with big bucks, for him to deliver this mismatch on PPV.

gambling revenue in macao last year was over $45bil.
adelson owns the ventian, the biggest casino/resort in macao, and is paying for fights up front.
algieri is a converted kickboxer with a boxing title who looks like an ambercrombie and fitch model.
he is a good pick for a crowd of asian high rollers who want to see pac beat someone up.
huge ppv numbers is not a high priority for this fight.
400k ppv buys for rios is only a bad number for pac. any other ppv event with
that many buys at that price would be considered a big success

Of course 400,000 is a great figure for most PPV matchups, but for a Pacquiao fight, how can you pay off his usual $25 million purse, with PPV numbers that low?
Obviously, the Chinese are subsidizing Arum big-time or there's no way he would ever have returned to Macau, where the bout will get almost no prefight pub from the American media.
Arum doesn't care that the matchup will draw peanuts in the US. The Chinese are lining his pockets with all the money he'll need.

So do you think that Manny is also getting money on the side or is Arum taking it all as usual?

Regardless of what Algieri gets, with the PPV numbers they are going to do, it's really impossible for Manny to be getting a legit $20M+ payday.

Bob does have a habit of announcing a purse and then drastically cutting the amount.

sucracristo wrote:

SenorPipino wrote: 400k ppv buys for rios is only a bad number for pac. any other ppv event with
that many buys at that price would be considered a big success

Duh, that's the point. If Floyd does 750K buys for Maidana II, fools will be creating tons of topics shitting on him. Manny is expected to do more buys, and with a advisor like Haymon, who makes money for himself AND his fighters, he would.

Arum was great for Manny up till about the first Bradley fight. JMM/Manny will draw big numbers regardless. Now, Manny needs to go solo, but a politician and veteran of the sport can't seem to let go of a promoter.

There's more to the story than we know.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:So do you think that Manny is also getting money on the side or is Arum taking it all as usual?

Regardless of what Algieri gets, with the PPV numbers they are going to do, it's really impossible for Manny to be getting a legit $20M+ payday.

Bob does have a habit of announcing a purse and then drastically cutting the amount.

Examples please.

It's already been explained, his 20m purse is not totally dependent on the PPV numbers, they get a massive site fee from the casino. Kinda like Floyd can underperform on PPV yet still get his 32m guarantee from Showtime.

Terrible advice for Pac to go solo when his market value is dropping. Arum is probably the only promoter that can guarantee him 20m at this point for fights of that caliber, and it's due to his foresight wrt China. He'd been talking Macau for years before anything materialized, it had become a joke.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Duh, that's the point.

of all the people in the world to be starting a comment with duh...
that wasn't even close to the point (macao over $45bil gambling revs, adelson pays up front, etc).

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:So do you think that Manny is also getting money on the side or is Arum taking it all as usual?

Regardless of what Algieri gets, with the PPV numbers they are going to do, it's really impossible for Manny to be getting a legit $20M+ payday.

Bob does have a habit of announcing a purse and then drastically cutting the amount.

Examples please.

It's already been explained, his 20m purse is not totally dependent on the PPV numbers, they get a massive site fee from the casino. Kinda like Floyd can underperform on PPV yet still get his 32m guarantee from Showtime.

Terrible advice for Pac to go solo when his market value is dropping. Arum is probably the only promoter that can guarantee him 20m at this point for fights of that caliber, and it's due to his foresight wrt China. He'd been talking Macau for years before anything materialized, it had become a joke.

Bradley was underpaid after signing a contract that was supposed to guarantee more. Other fighters have also made similar statements about TR. It's not on the fight itself, but the contract said something like after this fight, you're guaranteed this amount in the next fight, and it never happened. Top Rank's big strategy is forcing fighters to sign extensions with the promise of guaranteed money.

GBP can give Manny more than $20M per fight to fight Floyd and Canelo. So Arum is not the only promoter who can get Manny money. In fact, besides another fight with JMM (which seems unlikely), Bob can't offer Manny nearly the same as GBP for those two fight. Manny would have to fight four times for TR to make the money he'd make off those two purses alone.

Then again, Manny would make more than against anyone in the GBP stable from 140-147 right now. For fornicate's sake, he's fighting Chris Algieri. Why can't you Manny/Top Rank dick riders realize that the whole Top Rank/Manny thing should be over? That's the thing with most Many fans, they'll argue anything that isn't 100% positive about Manny.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:So do you think that Manny is also getting money on the side or is Arum taking it all as usual?

Regardless of what Algieri gets, with the PPV numbers they are going to do, it's really impossible for Manny to be getting a legit $20M+ payday.

Bob does have a habit of announcing a purse and then drastically cutting the amount.

Examples please.

It's already been explained, his 20m purse is not totally dependent on the PPV numbers, they get a massive site fee from the casino. Kinda like Floyd can underperform on PPV yet still get his 32m guarantee from Showtime.

Terrible advice for Pac to go solo when his market value is dropping. Arum is probably the only promoter that can guarantee him 20m at this point for fights of that caliber, and it's due to his foresight wrt China. He'd been talking Macau for years before anything materialized, it had become a joke.

Bradley was underpaid after signing a contract that was supposed to guarantee more. Other fighters have also made similar statements about TR. It's not on the fight itself, but the contract said something like after this fight, you're guaranteed this amount in the next fight, and it never happened. Top Rank's big strategy is forcing fighters to sign extensions with the promise of guaranteed money.

GBP can give Manny more than $20M per fight to fight Floyd and Canelo. So Arum is not the only promoter who can get Manny money. In fact, besides another fight with JMM (which seems unlikely), Bob can't offer Manny nearly the same as GBP for those two fight. Manny would have to fight four times for TR to make the money he'd make off those two purses alone.

Then again, Manny would make more than against anyone in the GBP stable from 140-147 right now. For eff's sake, he's fighting Chris Algieri. Why can't you Manny/Top Rank dick riders realize that the whole Top Rank/Manny thing should be over? That's the thing with most Many fans, they'll argue anytg that isn't 100% positive about Manny.

Underpaid my ass. He made 11m for the 2 Pac fights, waay more than hed get vs Floyd or anyone in the GBP stable.

Arum is not paying him 20m for Floyd or Canelo. Its for Bradley 2, Rios and Algieri. No way he makes more anywhere else vs such non draws.

GBP is a mess anyway, they dont even know who they have under contract. You seem poorly informed

ReggieDiggs wrote:If we could bar graph the money in boxing for the last 20 years I'm sure its on a downward path. They always say Rome wasn't built in a day, but Rome ain't gonna fall apart in day either & neither will boxing. Boxing is a sinking ship (not that it will ever sink ie die as is the often used & silly analogy brought up, but I think you get what I'm saying), but its not like cuz you don't buy this ppv or watch that premium channel fight or that ESPN2 card the boat will go from taking in water to the bottom of the ocean tomorrow.

Nice post and great analogies. Unfortunately, it has been sinking slowly for the past 30+ years.