Page 1 of 1
help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 14:24
by sugarkiowhatta
1. Tim Witherspoon. Yes a little old when mike came round in 86' to win his first belt, but witherspoon called mike out on numerous occasions. The only danger for mike was witherspoons awkward defense and trademark chopping right, but mike in good shape - no problemo.
2. Ray Mercer. - A rite of passage for all hall of famers was to stand up to big mercer, who I think mike would have trouble knocking out as mercer had a granite chin and good conditioning.
3. George Foreman. I recently watched bert cooper v foreman on YT, and cooper quit after 2-3 rounds, as there was just no way to decision foreman unless you had size, iron chin, and/or incredible boxing skills, I can understand mike ducking foreman here, though he chose to fight an embarrassing Holmes fight.
4. Tommy Morrison. Not entirely mikes fault as morrison was Ko'd arguably on the verge of a fight with iron mike. But contracts mean shit, ratings laughable, money talks, and this would have been a fan's fight. 2 left hookers with power, though once again if mike was in shape he have KO'd him.
5. Riddick bowe. This one really has wtf written on it. One of the few fighters to really test holyfield in his time, yet I can;t recall Bowe ever calling out mike, though I suspect it may have been a scrappy fight.
6. Michael Moorer. An underestimated and underappreciated fighter, who would have made a very interesting fight with tyson especially with mooorer being a southpaw and another courageous fighter who lost his belt to big George Foreman.
7. Bert Cooper. yes yes I know cooper was a sometime on sometime off fighter who had a terrible frazier like defense without any movement, but must be given respect for taking the fights he did, and showed glimpses of greatness. Cooper was groomed as future fighter for tyson but who the fornicate knows what happened there?
And of course too late...
8. Lennox Lewis. when he was still an up and comer before tyson lost the plot, no need to ponder this one, nor the last;
9. Holyfield.. every boxing fan probably still dreams of an in shape right minded tyson fight evander, but evander had one one of the best chins in history, who in my limited memory was rocked by bowe, cooper, foreman, and moorer.
comments welcome
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 24 Aug 2014, 23:02
by tagjohnson
Back then I couldn't see Bowe, Moorer, Morrison, Witherspoon, or Cooper being anything but early KO's against Tyson in his prime (and therefore not priorities) and I couldn't see them being box office draws either. Foreman? Very dangerous and a huge payday. Holyfield vs Tyson in their prime? Not even going to go there, that deserves it's own thread. I will say that if Tyson hadn't lost his mind/gotten arrested all or at least some of those fights would have happened.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 25 Aug 2014, 07:16
by jezzamundo
I can't answer why, but I'll give my predictions for the fights, not prime-for-prime but when they realistically could have happened.
Tyson vs Witherspoon, late 1986 (Tyson fights for Witherspoon's WBA belt intead of Berbick's WBC belt)
Tyson TKO2 - Witherspoon had the skills to make this a tough fight, but Tyson seemed unstoppable at that stage while Witherspoon was actually stopped in 1 by Bonecrusher Smith.
Tyson vs Mercer, 1991.
Tyson UD12 - I think Mercer's granite chin sees him through this one against a still dangerous but past his best Tyson, though Mike wins a clear 8-4 type decision in a competitive fight.
Tyson vs Mercer, mid to late 1996.
Mercer SD12 - In the early stages on his comeback, Mercer would have been a stiff challenge. At this stage I think it's a 50:50 fight and the decision could go either way, though Mercer would be unlikely to get any favours from the judges I think he would probably deserve to win.
Tyson vs Foreman, early 1990 (Foreman fights Tyson in Tokyo instead of Douglas)
Foreman TKO9 - I believe Foreman was better at this stage than when he beat Moorer. That said, he wouldn't have been able to outbox Tyson like Douglas did. I think it's a competitive fight with Tyson narrowly ahead on points while Foreman slowly grinds him down, stopping him with uppercuts.
Tyson vs Foreman, late 1996 (Foreman fights Tyson instead of Holyfield)
Tyson UD12 - Both fighters are worse than their 1990 versions, but I think Tyson still had enough at this stage to win a close but clear decision, scores varying from 7-5 to 6-4.
Tyson vs Morrison - I don't see a point in which Morrison would have been a viable opponent for Mike, but ultimately he didn't have the whiskers to be able to hang with him. Had he boxed on through the late 90s, he'd have had a shot of beating Tyson on points, but any other time it's an early KO for Iron Mike.
Tyson vs Bowe, late 1996.
Tyson TKO7 - This fight never could have happened pre-prison and by the time Mike was out, Bowe was well past his best. Had they fought in late 1996, I see a very scrappy fight with Tyson emerging victorious by a late TKO, largely thanks to Bowe's woeful defense.
Tyson vs Moorer, late 1996.
Tyson KO8 - I think this is another pick 'em fight that I could go either way on. If it goes the distance, I like Moorer to sneak a close decision but ultimately I think a Tyson KO is more likely.
Tyson vs Cooper
I don't think Cooper was ever a credible opponent for Tyson. Tyson wins by KO, regardless on which Cooper shows up, but if Bert's heart is in it, it's an interesting fight while is lasts
Tyson vs Lewis, mid-late 1996.
Lewis TKO11 - A much better fight than they eventually did have. Tyson wins a couple of rounds and hurts Lewis but lets him off the hook and is stopped late in the fight. A fairly wide Lewis decision wouldn't surprise me either.
Tyson vs Holyfield, 1991.
Holyfield TKO12 - Again, a far more competitive fight and better version of Tyson, but I think Holyfield would always beat him.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 25 Aug 2014, 12:14
by Ambling Alp II
To be fair to Tyson, the fighters that were mentioned missed several potential opponents themselves. Up until the Holyfield fights, Tyson fought pretty good competition. Then he took on weak competition until the Lewis fight.
Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe are the only fighters here who were in his class. If Mercer was on, it would have been a tough fight. The rest of these probably don't last until the mid-rounds.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 03:34
by Heartbreak_Kid79
Ambling Alp II wrote:Up until the Holyfield fights, Tyson fought pretty good competition. .
Not sure about that.... after coming out of jail, Tysons highest profile opponent before Evander was Frank Bruno, then Bruce Seldon. Neither gave him a workout
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 13:48
by tiny_acres
Tim Witherspoon was either brilliant or a bum. Depending on the day of the week.At his best he
could put up a fight with any heavy in history.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 14:02
by stevedoc
witherspoon was due to fight tyson but he lost to bonecrusher smith , i met tim and he said don king told him to take a dive vs smith don't know if it was true as we was both drunk but he said it.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 14:42
by Dubblechin
Actually, I know what happened with the Morrison fight.
Tommy Morrison signed with Don King in early 1996 because King wanted to put on a Tyson-Morrison title fight. But the first card King promoted featuring Morrison (vs. Arthur Weathers) was the one that Morrison tested positive for HIV. I remember the head of the Nevada Athletic Commission Marc Ratner coming on the air and telling Steve Albert that Morrison couldn't fight because he'd failed his pre-fight drug test. Ratner was very nervous. He didn't want to get too specific. Them Morrison called a press conference the following week and announced he'd tested positive.
So it came close to happening. If Morrison hadn't tested positive, Tyson would've fought Morrison in late 1996 instead of Holyfield (who knocked Tyson out).
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 14:44
by Dubblechin
stevedoc wrote:witherspoon was due to fight tyson but he lost to bonecrusher smith , i met tim and he said don king told him to take a dive vs smith don't know if it was true as we was both drunk but he said it.
I think Tim Witherspoon was probably just "drunk talking." Bonecrusher Smith knocked one of Tim's teeth out during that first-round blitz.
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 16:40
by tiny_acres
Dubblechin wrote:Actually, I know what happened with the Morrison fight.
Tommy Morrison signed with Don King in early 1996 because King wanted to put on a Tyson-Morrison title fight. But the first card King promoted featuring Morrison (vs. Arthur Weathers) was the one that Morrison tested positive for HIV. I remember the head of the Nevada Athletic Commission Marc Ratner coming on the air and telling Steve Albert that Morrison couldn't fight because he'd failed his pre-fight drug test. Ratner was very nervous. He didn't want to get too specific. Them Morrison called a press conference the following week and announced he'd tested positive.
So it came close to happening. If Morrison hadn't tested positive, Tyson would've fought Morrison in late 1996 instead of Holyfield (who knocked Tyson out).
Morrison vs Tyson in 1996 would of been a decent match up.Any predictions?
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 17:54
by stevedoc
Dubblechin wrote:stevedoc wrote:witherspoon was due to fight tyson but he lost to bonecrusher smith , i met tim and he said don king told him to take a dive vs smith don't know if it was true as we was both drunk but he said it.
I think Tim Witherspoon was probably just "drunk talking." Bonecrusher Smith knocked one of Tim's teeth out during that first-round blitz.
your probably right at the time i thought this is bollox but out of respect for tim i didn't press it
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 27 Aug 2014, 20:12
by Bricks
sugarkiowhatta wrote:1. Tim Witherspoon. Yes a little old when mike came round in 86' to win his first belt, but witherspoon called mike out on numerous occasions. The only danger for mike was witherspoons awkward defense and trademark chopping right, but mike in good shape - no problemo.
dimples.Tim had promotional problems with Don king and took a dive of sorts with airbrushed.if not they'd have met in late 87 where tyson would have knocked him out.the resurgent spoon of 96 would have beaten the tyson of 96 tho
2. Ray Mercer. - A rite of passage for all hall of famers was to stand up to big mercer, who I think mike would have trouble knocking out as mercer had a granite chin and good conditioning.peak tyson takes him but the post prison tyson loses to mercer
3. George Foreman. I recently watched bert cooper v foreman on YT, and cooper quit after 2-3 rounds, as there was just no way to decision foreman unless you had size, iron chin, and/or incredible boxing skills, I can understand mike ducking foreman here, though he chose to fight an embarrassing Holmes fight.i think tyson would have fought him
4. Tommy Morrison. Not entirely mikes fault as morrison was Ko'd arguably on the verge of a fight with iron mike. But contracts mean poo, ratings laughable, money talks, and this would have been a fan's fight. 2 left hookers with power, though once again if mike was in shape he have KO'd him.a guy even the poor man's tyson circa 95 demolishes
5. Riddick bowe. This one really has wtf written on it. One of the few fighters to really test holyfield in his time, yet I can;t recall Bowe ever calling out mike, though I suspect it may have been a scrappy fight.
very hard to predict
6. Michael Moorer. An underestimated and underappreciated fighter, who would have made a very interesting fight with tyson especially with mooorer being a southpaw and another courageous fighter who lost his belt to big George Foreman.a1991 fight is the only time I'd be interested
7. Bert Cooper. yes yes I know cooper was a sometime on sometime off fighter who had a terrible frazier like defense without any movement, but must be given respect for taking the fights he did, and showed glimpses of greatness. Cooper was groomed as future fighter for tyson but who the eff knows what happened there?tyson crushes him in one
And of course too late...
8. Lennox Lewis. when he was still an up and comer before tyson lost the plot, no need to ponder this one, nor the last;tyson 86-89 and 1991 takes him
9. Holyfield.. every boxing fan probably still dreams of an in shape right minded tyson fight evander, but evander had one one of the best chins in history, who in my limited memory was rocked by bowe, cooper, foreman, and moorer.
comments welcome
Re: help answer why mike tyson did not fight these fighters:
Posted: 28 Aug 2014, 11:41
by Ambling Alp II
Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Ambling Alp II wrote:Up until the Holyfield fights, Tyson fought pretty good competition. .
Not sure about that.... after coming out of jail, Tysons highest profile opponent before Evander was Frank Bruno, then Bruce Seldon. Neither gave him a workout
I was counting his overall competition during his entire career up until the Holyfield fight. It was generally pretty good. As Bruno and Seldon, you can't blame Tyson for them not giving him a "workout". Actually Bruno came to fight against Tyson but was just overmatched. Bruno was coming off the biggest win of his career. Tyson certainly could have found softer opponents then them.