BoxRec

I am not sure how to word this without feeding the haters and annoying the passionate supporters but instead start a proper debate or discussion so will dive right in. First have to say I cheered the win, before hand had it 50-50, I like Brook but am not a fan per ce of any fighter, I just like boxing and follow it with some passion. I am beyond being some huge follower of one guy as too old for that nonsense! I am a neutral supporter who watches and reads and loves it.

OK, I am a bit confused by all the retrospective talk that Shawn Porter was the next coming of Sugar Ray or Tyson as I thought it was considered an interesting challenge for Devon who tripped up against him in a close fight. He beat a worn out Paulie but generally was just considered a solid, strong, little bit untidy fighter. Now it is like Kell went and bashed up some superstar in waiting. With retrospect Lacy was not as good as we thought but at the time was considered superb, the next Tyson and so that one was on the level but this is not the same at all. Plus I know a lot of top guys tipped Kell (Dougie in The Ring but said he thought in the US Porter would get the decision) and if they did not tip Kell, they had it 60-40.

Plus he did not win easily despite some saying so. It was by somewhere in the region of a three point/round win so hardly a massive dominating win to announce his quality.

Moving on, Fightnews.com had Porter 5th best in the division before this fight, same as The Ring (ranked 4th but with Mayweather as champ for another guy above).

But Hearn, that fanboy fool from IFL TV and others are acting like this is bigger than it is. And Brook himself has a right to be thrilled, excited, on a cloud etc but it is only one title belt in a boxing world that has devalued those belts and almost made them immaterial on the true elite scene. They have value still obviously but not huge. Hell, even Stuart Hall picks up IBF belts!!!!

Brook is acting like he is suddenly the king of the world, saying Khan needs to understand HE is the champ, he is in the driving seat, he is the man, everyone wants him and his belt, he is the player now etc and frankly, I do not think he has it in perspective. Names, market value, public recognition beyond boxing will dictate who is The Man and right now, the public at large are not too aware of Brook but still know Khan.

Good luck to him and apologies if this is like an attack piece as it is not from a "haters" angle, I hope he goes on and beats the Pac Man and Floyd and becomes a superstar, I may even pay to go Vegas to support one fight but right now, all a little bit carried away.

Or is it just me?!?

Close fight? Porter Alexander was a near shut out. Shawn Porter praise is not retrospective. Lot of ppl touted him as a next big thing, lot of hard core fans called for Maywheather fight. In fact he gets called a hypejob now after defeat, so his value went down. I think you are misreading the situation.

BTW if you dont want to be seen hating and offensive then its really inappropriate for you to call IFLTV fanboy fool. Probably the best respected interviewer channel on YTBC.

With regards the Khan talk it's all just posturing and goes with the territory of negotiating / hyping a potential meeting between them.

Porter was in the ascendancy and had dethroned a skillful southpaw, despite lacking skill himself. He can't box but he can definitely fight.

On the eve of the fight I was excited for it. It generated a nice buzz.

I think the comment about IFLTV is because maybe their enthusiasm over the victory is higher than yours- but they were Stateside and were fully consumed by the whole journey, from the American press conferences to the announcement Brook won. I personally think Kugan Helder add an extra dimension to these shows that in previous years we never saw before. Whether they (personally) are your cup of tea is down to personal preference but nobody forces anyone to press 'play' if they so choose.

I'm pleased more so for the future, than the victory itself. With Froch on the wind-down , the landscape for big international showdowns involving British fighters looked bleak.

Whether Kell reigns for a long time is down to him, his opponents and where the winning bid dictates the fight to be held (judges/crowd influence).

I'm looking forward to Brook Khan and possibly the victor fighting 'One Time' Thurman.

The future as a British boxing fan is better for Kell's triumph. Let's enjoy the ride.

tobyh5 wrote:I am not sure how to word this without feeding the haters and annoying the passionate supporters but instead start a proper debate or discussion so will dive right in. First have to say I cheered the win, before hand had it 50-50, I like Brook but am not a fan per ce of any fighter, I just like boxing and follow it with some passion. I am beyond being some huge follower of one guy as too old for that nonsense! I am a neutral supporter who watches and reads and loves it.

OK, I am a bit confused by all the retrospective talk that Shawn Porter was the next coming of Sugar Ray or Tyson as I thought it was considered an interesting challenge for Devon who tripped up against him in a close fight. He beat a worn out Paulie but generally was just considered a solid, strong, little bit untidy fighter. Now it is like Kell went and bashed up some superstar in waiting. With retrospect Lacy was not as good as we thought but at the time was considered superb, the next Tyson and so that one was on the level but this is not the same at all. Plus I know a lot of top guys tipped Kell (Dougie in The Ring but said he thought in the US Porter would get the decision) and if they did not tip Kell, they had it 60-40.

Plus he did not win easily despite some saying so. It was by somewhere in the region of a three point/round win so hardly a massive dominating win to announce his quality.

Moving on, Fightnews.com had Porter 5th best in the division before this fight, same as The Ring (ranked 4th but with Mayweather as champ for another guy above).

But Hearn, that fanboy fool from IFL TV and others are acting like this is bigger than it is. And Brook himself has a right to be thrilled, excited, on a cloud etc but it is only one title belt in a boxing world that has devalued those belts and almost made them immaterial on the true elite scene. They have value still obviously but not huge. Hell, even Stuart Hall picks up IBF belts!!!!

Brook is acting like he is suddenly the king of the world, saying Khan needs to understand HE is the champ, he is in the driving seat, he is the man, everyone wants him and his belt, he is the player now etc and frankly, I do not think he has it in perspective. Names, market value, public recognition beyond boxing will dictate who is The Man and right now, the public at large are not too aware of Brook but still know Khan.

Good luck to him and apologies if this is like an attack piece as it is not from a "haters" angle, I hope he goes on and beats the Pac Man and Floyd and becomes a superstar, I may even pay to go Vegas to support one fight but right now, all a little bit carried away.

Or is it just me?!?

Relax and let the lad enjoy his moment.

I enjoy the ILF stuff but he is not respected interviewer. It is good due to the access he has and people enjoy being able to see the guys he talks to in an informal setting but he is an awful interviewer and is a fan boy and a bit of a fool. Neither of which is as derogatory as he sounded.

But good point in fairness, thanks.

I don't really understand the point of this thread.

I think there's usually a certain amount of exaggeration when talking boxing, it's just the nature of fans.

That being said, many of Brook's critics definitely exaggerated his perceived failings, so it's only fair it gets balanced out by praise now.

As for how good the win really was, we probably won't know for 5 years or so when Brook & Porter are nearing the end of their careers & we can make a more informed judgement.

But Brook has just travelled to the US & gained a world title, which is what he set out to do & is a huge achievement regardless of anything else.

DMA1987 wrote:I don't really understand the point of this thread.

I think it's natural in the immediate aftermath to overestimate things, and even underestimate them. We won't know how truly good of a win it was until later on in their careers.

DMA1987 wrote:I don't really understand the point of this thread.

This is a boxing debating forum and it is a thread with an opinion that it is exaggerated and some other thoughts to stimulate a conversation. What is there to not understand? It is not something that interests you clearly, so just move along to one that does but that is frankly a silly comment that does not make sense. You may not agree with what i wrote, so can debate it but what you wrote is just plain daft mate

G0mez wrote:With regards the Khan talk it's all just posturing and goes with the territory of negotiating / hyping a potential meeting between them.

Porter was in the ascendancy and had dethroned a skillful southpaw, despite lacking skill himself. He can't box but he can definitely fight.

On the eve of the fight I was excited for it. It generated a nice buzz.

I think the comment about IFLTV is because maybe their enthusiasm over the victory is higher than yours- but they were Stateside and were fully consumed by the whole journey, from the American press conferences to the announcement Brook won. I personally think Kugan Helder add an extra dimension to these shows that in previous years we never saw before. Whether they (personally) are your cup of tea is down to personal preference but nobody forces anyone to press 'play' if they so choose.

I'm pleased more so for the future, than the victory itself. With Froch on the wind-down , the landscape for big international showdowns involving British fighters looked bleak.

Whether Kell reigns for a long time is down to him, his opponents and where the winning bid dictates the fight to be held (judges/crowd influence).

I'm looking forward to Brook Khan and possibly the victor fighting 'One Time' Thurman.

The future as a British boxing fan is better for Kell's triumph. Let's enjoy the ride.

Nice comment and I agree with much apart from Kugan adding a dimension. I think it is purely the access he has that makes it worthwhile, I enjoy ILF for that but always wish we had someone asking them proper questions on top of the banter and BS stuff. That is ok, but that ends up being most of what it is about.

I think that in this division which is full of talent its a massive achievement to go to the U.S as an underdog and bring the belt back. For Kell to break in to the top fighters in that division should not be underestimated at all.

I think it will be fully appreciated in a few years time.

tobyh5 wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:I don't really understand the point of this thread.

This is a boxing debating forum and it is a thread with an opinion that it is exaggerated and some other thoughts to stimulate a conversation. What is there to not understand? It is not something that interests you clearly, so just move along to one that does but that is frankly a silly comment that does not make sense. You may not agree with what i wrote, so can debate it but what you wrote is just plain daft mate

Debate that people are too happy Kell won? What on earth does it matter? I didn't see the point because you say it wasn't from a "hater" angle and then you say he has won a devalued belt against an overrated opponent.

Talk about hedging your bets.

I'd say people have started back tracking on the Porter hype since his loss to Brook. Going into the fight he was a beast, now he's a limited brawler. Its a bit unfair to imply Brook fans are trying to built Porter up into something special, when there are still people trying to talk like Porter was a poor champion. The reality is, as always, somewhere in between. Porter wasn't he beast everyone wanted him to be, but he is still a legit fighter and its a great scalp for Brook. Before and even during the fight there were people talking like Porter was just too much for Brook to handle. The reality is Brook went to another guys back yard as the underdog and came away with a world title, with a close but clear victory. I think that's grounds for celebration if you're a Brook fan.

Old Jack J wrote:I think that in this division which is full of talent its a massive achievement to go to the U.S as an underdog and bring the belt back. For Kell to break in to the top fighters in that division should not be underestimated at all.

I think it will be fully appreciated in a few years time.

Yes it'll not be done for some time; Porter isn't done by any means and it was a close bout. Brook can push on, his supporters were correct. With a world title he'll have some serious challengers which will push him and make him rich. I didn't think he'd beat Porter but am pleased that he did.

tobyh5 wrote:I am not sure how to word this without feeding the haters and annoying the passionate supporters but instead start a proper debate or discussion so will dive right in. First have to say I cheered the win, before hand had it 50-50, I like Brook but am not a fan per ce of any fighter, I just like boxing and follow it with some passion. I am beyond being some huge follower of one guy as too old for that nonsense! I am a neutral supporter who watches and reads and loves it.

OK, I am a bit confused by all the retrospective talk that Shawn Porter was the next coming of Sugar Ray or Tyson as I thought it was considered an interesting challenge for Devon who tripped up against him in a close fight. He beat a worn out Paulie but generally was just considered a solid, strong, little bit untidy fighter. Now it is like Kell went and bashed up some superstar in waiting. With retrospect Lacy was not as good as we thought but at the time was considered superb, the next Tyson and so that one was on the level but this is not the same at all. Plus I know a lot of top guys tipped Kell (Dougie in The Ring but said he thought in the US Porter would get the decision) and if they did not tip Kell, they had it 60-40.

Plus he did not win easily despite some saying so. It was by somewhere in the region of a three point/round win so hardly a massive dominating win to announce his quality.

Moving on, Fightnews.com had Porter 5th best in the division before this fight, same as The Ring (ranked 4th but with Mayweather as champ for another guy above).

But Hearn, that fanboy fool from IFL TV and others are acting like this is bigger than it is. And Brook himself has a right to be thrilled, excited, on a cloud etc but it is only one title belt in a boxing world that has devalued those belts and almost made them immaterial on the true elite scene. They have value still obviously but not huge. Hell, even Stuart Hall picks up IBF belts!!!!

Brook is acting like he is suddenly the king of the world, saying Khan needs to understand HE is the champ, he is in the driving seat, he is the man, everyone wants him and his belt, he is the player now etc and frankly, I do not think he has it in perspective. Names, market value, public recognition beyond boxing will dictate who is The Man and right now, the public at large are not too aware of Brook but still know Khan.

Good luck to him and apologies if this is like an attack piece as it is not from a "haters" angle, I hope he goes on and beats the Pac Man and Floyd and becomes a superstar, I may even pay to go Vegas to support one fight but right now, all a little bit carried away.

Or is it just me?!?

they won't let you get away with that round here buddy, I tried. We've got to pretend that Lacy was always nothing special. His record was nothing like Porter's, who had enjoyed wins against not one but two "names".
The fact he was coming to fight a man like Joe Calzaghe and opinion was roughly 50-50 split means nothing. Porter beat Malignaggi and Devon Alexander and Left Hook Jeff was considered nowhere near as good.
Be interesting actually - had Porter come over in 2006, and Lacy fought just last week (in his prime)...would people be harking back to Shawn Porter like they have with Lacy? Imo no.
Jeff was considered a potential dangerman in the McClellan mode.

Lacy had looked really good a d was built up by the american television companies. He steamrollered Robin Rid and looked as though he enjoyed it. Calzaghe had squeaked past Robin and it was thought by many that Lacy was the new monster on the block and he certainly looked the part. Lacy was overated, Calzaghe underated and Joe boxed his ears off, end of. Joe used the win to go to new heights and Lacy never was the same again.

palooka wrote:Lacy had looked really good a d was built up by the american television companies. He steamrollered Robin Rid and looked as though he enjoyed it. Calzaghe had squeaked past Robin and it was thought by many that Lacy was the new monster on the block and he certainly looked the part. Lacy was overated, Calzaghe underated and Joe boxed his ears off, end of. Joe used the win to go to new heights and Lacy never was the same again.

Joe Calzaghe wanted to drop out of that fight but his Dad said it would be easy. I wonder how far Robin was, compared with Paulie. And what would a prime Paulie have done with Porter? I suspect he'd have found a way to win. Paulie seems like one of boxing's nice guys from what I've seen.

I think Paulie would still get some good wins, he has a very effective style though people may be more prepared to in ugly, like Porter did. I think Porter can get some scalps as well, losing to a world class boxer doesn't or shouldn't mean the end. PpUlie does come across really decent but in a fight that doesn't count for much.

Toby,
It called a PR machine.
It called marketing and marketability.
It's called hype.
Boxing cannot survive just as a sport it needs characters it needs selling.
Kell has sat in the wings and witnessed fighters selling.
Naz was the best. 60% of tickets to sold to people desperate to see him get his head knocked off.
Just enjoy the ride mate - no one's forcing you to buy into it. But guess what ..... it got you talkin about it !

magwitch wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:I am not sure how to word this without feeding the haters and annoying the passionate supporters but instead start a proper debate or discussion so will dive right in. First have to say I cheered the win, before hand had it 50-50, I like Brook but am not a fan per ce of any fighter, I just like boxing and follow it with some passion. I am beyond being some huge follower of one guy as too old for that nonsense! I am a neutral supporter who watches and reads and loves it.

OK, I am a bit confused by all the retrospective talk that Shawn Porter was the next coming of Sugar Ray or Tyson as I thought it was considered an interesting challenge for Devon who tripped up against him in a close fight. He beat a worn out Paulie but generally was just considered a solid, strong, little bit untidy fighter. Now it is like Kell went and bashed up some superstar in waiting. With retrospect Lacy was not as good as we thought but at the time was considered superb, the next Tyson and so that one was on the level but this is not the same at all. Plus I know a lot of top guys tipped Kell (Dougie in The Ring but said he thought in the US Porter would get the decision) and if they did not tip Kell, they had it 60-40.

Plus he did not win easily despite some saying so. It was by somewhere in the region of a three point/round win so hardly a massive dominating win to announce his quality.

Moving on, Fightnews.com had Porter 5th best in the division before this fight, same as The Ring (ranked 4th but with Mayweather as champ for another guy above).

But Hearn, that fanboy fool from IFL TV and others are acting like this is bigger than it is. And Brook himself has a right to be thrilled, excited, on a cloud etc but it is only one title belt in a boxing world that has devalued those belts and almost made them immaterial on the true elite scene. They have value still obviously but not huge. Hell, even Stuart Hall picks up IBF belts!!!!

Brook is acting like he is suddenly the king of the world, saying Khan needs to understand HE is the champ, he is in the driving seat, he is the man, everyone wants him and his belt, he is the player now etc and frankly, I do not think he has it in perspective. Names, market value, public recognition beyond boxing will dictate who is The Man and right now, the public at large are not too aware of Brook but still know Khan.

Good luck to him and apologies if this is like an attack piece as it is not from a "haters" angle, I hope he goes on and beats the Pac Man and Floyd and becomes a superstar, I may even pay to go Vegas to support one fight but right now, all a little bit carried away.

Or is it just me?!?

His record was nothing like Porter's, who had enjoyed wins against not one but two "names".

You're right about that

Tell you what, if I had spent half my life chasing a title, starving, training, getting injured, then go to the other guys back yard when 90% of the press and public are saying I am going to get mullered...and I happen to turn the guy over through courage, skill and preparation, and suddenly, I am on the gravy train it is going to take a long long time before I stop crowing about it.

Absolutely massive achievement which should not be underestimated.

If I'm ever right about a fighter I won't ever stop crowing over it.

It fascinates me how little of Lacy most people actually saw, bar the version of Robin Reid who hit pads at poolside of a run down hotel over a hundred miles from even a sports gym.

Going life and death with the shell of Omar Sheika and grinding out a points win over Richard the Alien Grant at the playboy mansion are better indications of Lacy's level.

I remember getting the DVD career set to see this killer's legacy well before Joe's fight against him and was completely underwhelmed.

Porter was and is, a bigger obstacle to overcome than Lacy ever was.

I feel for Jeff, being built up as Tyson and Dan Birmingham picking up awards cos he held Lacy's spit bucket - when he marched into the MEN he knew the facade was over. Then later the shoulder injury, and his brother going nuts and killing folk. Feel for the guy, although he's probably made a dollar from it all.

G0mez wrote:It fascinates me how little of Lacy most people actually saw, bar the version of Robin Reid who hit pads at poolside of a run down hotel over a hundred miles from even a sports gym.

Going life and death with the shell of Omar Sheika and grinding out a points win over Richard the Alien Grant at the playboy mansion are better indications of Lacy's level.

I remember getting the DVD career set to see this killer's legacy well before Joe's fight against him and was completely underwhelmed.

Porter was and is, a bigger obstacle to overcome than Lacy ever was.

I feel for Jeff, being built up as Tyson and Dan Birmingham picking up awards cos he held Lacy's spit bucket - when he marched into the MEN he knew the facade was over. Then later the shoulder injury, and his brother going nuts and killing folk. Feel for the guy, although he's probably made a dollar from it all.

I never knew about his brother. One thing I was thinking earlier today though is everybody talks about how good Calzaghe was for beating this "bully" type persona who was meant to beat him up - but Lacy took his beating well. It was a mismatch, but he never disgraced himself or looked for a way out.

tobyh5 wrote:I am not sure how to word this without feeding the haters and annoying the passionate supporters but instead start a proper debate or discussion so will dive right in. First have to say I cheered the win, before hand had it 50-50, I like Brook but am not a fan per ce of any fighter, I just like boxing and follow it with some passion. I am beyond being some huge follower of one guy as too old for that nonsense! I am a neutral supporter who watches and reads and loves it.

OK, I am a bit confused by all the retrospective talk that Shawn Porter was the next coming of Sugar Ray or Tyson as I thought it was considered an interesting challenge for Devon who tripped up against him in a close fight. He beat a worn out Paulie but generally was just considered a solid, strong, little bit untidy fighter. Now it is like Kell went and bashed up some superstar in waiting. With retrospect Lacy was not as good as we thought but at the time was considered superb, the next Tyson and so that one was on the level but this is not the same at all. Plus I know a lot of top guys tipped Kell (Dougie in The Ring but said he thought in the US Porter would get the decision) and if they did not tip Kell, they had it 60-40.

Plus he did not win easily despite some saying so. It was by somewhere in the region of a three point/round win so hardly a massive dominating win to announce his quality.

Moving on, Fightnews.com had Porter 5th best in the division before this fight, same as The Ring (ranked 4th but with Mayweather as champ for another guy above).

But Hearn, that fanboy fool from IFL TV and others are acting like this is bigger than it is. And Brook himself has a right to be thrilled, excited, on a cloud etc but it is only one title belt in a boxing world that has devalued those belts and almost made them immaterial on the true elite scene. They have value still obviously but not huge. Hell, even Stuart Hall picks up IBF belts!!!!

Brook is acting like he is suddenly the king of the world, saying Khan needs to understand HE is the champ, he is in the driving seat, he is the man, everyone wants him and his belt, he is the player now etc and frankly, I do not think he has it in perspective. Names, market value, public recognition beyond boxing will dictate who is The Man and right now, the public at large are not too aware of Brook but still know Khan.

Good luck to him and apologies if this is like an attack piece as it is not from a "haters" angle, I hope he goes on and beats the Pac Man and Floyd and becomes a superstar, I may even pay to go Vegas to support one fight but right now, all a little bit carried away.

Or is it just me?!?

What do you expect?
I think it's you mate years of sh.t we had his been called a coward and limited.
The haters bigged up Porter read my thread a week before the fight.
Kell Brook was just in a horrible fight to watch against a persistent brawlernot the best showcase but belt won The hype machine goes into overdrive now to capitalize on that exposure in the hope of making as much noise as possible so big matches are made.Kell is still high risk for anyone and will need a big following to get big fights.
It's a big thing these days to win a title abroad ask Macklin and Murray and Kell did it the title of your thread is preposterous how can you exaggerate becoming The Champion of the World think about it.