BoxRec

For me it's;

1. Bute
2. AA
3. Groves 2 (Mainly because of the finish)

Those are all good shouts. It's a tough one though because the Taylor fight would have a good shout. Not because of his all round performance in it but the comeback he put up to win.

Pascal instead of Abraham for me, not sure what order though

1. Bute
2. Pascal
3. Abraham

lefty wrote:Those are all good shouts. It's a tough one though because the Taylor fight would have a good shout. Not because of his all round performance in it but the comeback he put up to win.

Yeah the Taylor comeback was epic. Maybe that should be 3 instead of Groves 2.

Not forgetting Kessler 2...struth he has been in some wars!

I would say:

1. Kessler 2
2.Groves 2
3. Abraham

I have put Kessler at number 1 because he is a class fighter who, like Froch, is mentally and physically as tough as old boots as well as being a fine boxer.

Groves at number 2 because he made adjustments and turned the rematch into a completely different fight from the first fght when he had been shaken up pretty badly, and came through with a good victory against a fast and dangerous world class opponent.

Abraham at 3, because I think he is a bit more limited than Groves and Kessler, but was still a very dangerous opponent because of his punch (at the time).

The Bute fight was terrific becuase of the build up and anticipation, but I can't shake off the feeling that Bute waqs fragile (physically) and appeared to be like a rabbit in the headlights. Without wishing to cheapen Froch's victory here, I feel that this win flattered to decieve a little bit.

I felt sorry for Bute. I think his corner should have pulled him out at the end of the 4th -he didn't know where he was and was in no position to defend himself and really shouldn't have been sent out for the 5th and a gauranteed beat down.

Neither Groves should be in his top 3, in my humble opinion - although both showed his qualities (never say die in the first & the seasoned veteran in the latter).

But here's mine....

1 - Bute. At that moment in time it was do or die for Froch. I know many 'experts' are now claiming Bute was never any good but when he stepped into the ring with Froch he was arguably Number 1 at the weight.

2 - Abraham. Similar to the above. Froch's previous three fights had been the come from behind win over Taylor, the debatable win over Dirrell & the loss to Kessler. AA was coming off a loss but was still a favourite (if I remember rightly). Froch boxed beautifully that night.

3 - Taylor. You could argue the Pascal fight was a better performance but Taylor was a bigger test. Coming off a win over Lacy & the general consensus was that the extra weight would help him. It did. For 35 minutes & 46 seconds.

Froch reminds me of Steve Collins in the way he was more of a boxer in his formative years but traded on his toughness in his 30's.

Abraham: Carl made him look ordinary
Pascal: Great fight, both men gave it their all
Bute: Completely destroyed him, he still hasn't recovered mentally and probably never will

Pascal, Bute, Abraham/Taylor.

Can't split the last two, away from home, betting underdog in both yet came through. Pascal was his break out fight who then went on to become a genuine light heavy champ and deliver plenty of success.
Bute, as mentioned above, do or die, many were tipping Bute to win. Destroyed him.

1. Trampoline
2. Hoops
3. Jermain Taylor

Groves 2
Kessler 2
Pascal

Matthew Barney close to getting a spot.

Funny looking back to think the Bute fight was supposed to be the first of two!

Boxerbeetle123 wrote:Funny looking back to think the Bute fight was supposed to be the first of two!

Can't say I blame Bute for not triggering the rematch clause

Kessler 2
Pascal
Bute

...hopefully Chavez Jr gets added to the list sometime soon.

palooka wrote:Matthew Barney close to getting a spot.

I remember Froch saying that it was hard to look good against someone so negative. But I was impressed.

In no order: Pascal, Taylor, and Dirrell. None of whom were outmanned until they were tired.

Bute
Taylor
Abraham

or just as easily to think:

Pascal
Groves 2
Kessler 2

Abraham and Bute are definitely top two. He absolutely schooled Abraham, it was twelve rounds of absolute domination. Bute, he destroyed so bad that it ruined Bute's career and he has not looked the same since.

Abraham and Bute are definitely top two. He absolutely schooled Abraham, it was twelve rounds of absolute domination. Bute, he beat so destroyed so bad that it ruined Bute's career and he has not looked the same since.

Yup, agree with that comment about Bute. For those us with a long memory and perhaps a bit of grey hair, there were clear parralels between what Joe C did to Lacy and what Carl did against Bute. Fancied, unbeaten belt-holders swaggering into the little old UK and ill-advisedly believing they were facing over-rated, protected European champions. The same painful lesson and reality check adminstered by both Froch and Joe.....

I dont know how some ever had Bute ahead of Ward as the top super middleweight though.

lefty wrote:I dont know how some ever had Bute ahead of Ward as the top super middleweight though.

He never deserved to be ahead of Ward and he was probably overrated to a degree, but I think the peak version of Bute has been significantly underrated in the wake of the Froch fight. He was quite a skilled fighter who had no problems outclassing some decent opponents, but since the Froch bout it seems like his confidence is gone and he's far more afraid of being hit. The way he reacts to shots reminds me somewhat of the way Wlad used to panic when in trouble.

Although Ward is better than Froch I think Bute would've done better against the former. Froch's heavy-handed aggression and ability to walk through big punches were a particularly bad set of attributes for Bute to handle; a slower-paced, more tactical affair against a very skilled but much lighter hitter would've suited Bute's boxing style more in my view.

My top three Froch performances

1. Bute
2. Abraham
3. Pascal

Honorable mention: Kessler I

I don't rate Kessler II particularly highly because I believe Kessler was clearly on the slide and that diminished much of the impressiveness of the win. The first Kessler fight may seem like an odd choice but it was an unappreciated performance from Froch in my view, as there were still some doubts about how he'd cope with SMW elite (I didn't think Taylor fit that category and he was commonly seen as being gifted a win against Dirrell) and he went to Denmark, fought his guts out as usual, and arguably did enough to pull out a win in a very tough fight. To me that and not any previous fight may have been his emergence as an elite SMW.

Conversely, I think Froch's win in the Groves rematch is overrated. I think it's questionable to give someone credit for beating an opponent when that credit is based largely on assuming the opponent is good because they troubled the fighter in question. By the same logic Andre Ward would get more credit for beating Edwin Rodriguez had he been dropped and losing before scoring a stoppage in an initial bout prior to decisively winning a rematch.

Are people putting the Pascal performance on the list based on what Pascal has done since losing to Froch?

1) abraham - punch perfect.

2) bute -

3) kessler 2 - excellent fight and performance.

worst 3.

1) adamu - didn't think he'd win a world title after this one.

2) dirrell - got well outboxed in this one.

3) taylor - thank f*ck it weren't a 10 rounder.

lefty wrote:Those are all good shouts. It's a tough one though because the Taylor fight would have a good shout. Not because of his all round performance in it but the comeback he put up to win.

Yeah the Taylor fight really showed his character - an amazing win.

I also started to like Froch after he beat Pascal - was this fight on ITV ? - before he started all this "I am a legend" stuff that put me off him again !

It shows what career he had by this discussion and some of the names - eg. at the time Bute was supposed to be the top top man but he was absolutely destroyed by Froch.

To be honest, there are half a dozen fights that I could pick but I am going round in circles trying to put them in some order.