BoxRec

Both are big punchers. ortiz might have a little better boxing skills but wilder is taller and physically fitter. wilder might also have a little faster hands, as ortiz hands don't appear to be as fast as they are usually with cuban fighters (like solis or gomez for example).

I don't know about either guys chin so it could be over quickly. I think that would be a great fight.

ortiz is a MASSIVE step up for Wilder

dominik wrote:Both are big punchers. ortiz might have a little better boxing skills but wilder is taller and physically fitter. wilder might also have a little faster hands, as ortiz hands don't appear to be as fast as they are usually with cuban fighters (like solis or gomez for example).

I don't know about either guys chin so it could be over quickly. I think that would be a great fight.

I completely agree.

cold187 wrote:ortiz is a MASSIVE step up for Wilder

To be fair, Wilder has fought better competition to this point than Ortiz. Kayode was a cruiserweight until 2013 and his entire résumé was built at cruiser. I think Audley and Malik Scott were better wins. I know Audley looked like garbage in their fight, but he was coming off that Prizefighter Tournament, with an impressive stoppage of Derric Rossy. The same guy who gave Glazkov so much trouble a month ago.

Still, I'd favor Ortiz very slightly.

I think Ortiz would beat Wilder. 0 of Wilder's attributes have been properly tested at any point in his career, his chin is a bit suspect, and he fights wildly like a novice. Ortiz is a patient operator with significant power, accuracy, and a reach that rivals Wilder's. I expect that Ortiz would be able to find Wilder, and in finding him, would stop him.

knurak wrote:Kayode was a cruiserweight until 2013 and his entire résumé was built at cruiser. I think Audley and Malik Scott were better wins.

No. If you're aware that Kayode was a cruiserweight, then you should also be aware that he was roughly the #6 cruiserweight who drew with Tarver, who at the time was top 5 in the division, a titlist, and on steroids. To claim that a fighter like that is inferior to Audley Harrison is absolutely preposterous. Any of the top 25 cruiserweights would take Audley to school. Even the top 15 or top 20 cruiserweights would beat Malik Scott.

I believe that Ortiz may be significantly better & more dangerous a fighter that we've witnessed from him thus far, but that being said, I highly doubt that he's ready to mix Wilder just yet. I think the American has more than enough of an edge in size ( height & reach specifically ), hand speed, athleticism, power & killer instinct to get Ortiz out of there inside of about four or five rounds.
But, Ortiz will certainly have a puncher's chance himself as well, so he can't be dismissed out of hand by any means. That's why I think this one has the potential to be a real barnburner for as long as it lasts.

Like there's even a slight chance they're going to fight? I'm not even sure Wilder is fighting Stiverne.

Lackeos wrote:

knurak wrote:Kayode was a cruiserweight until 2013 and his entire résumé was built at cruiser. I think Audley and Malik Scott were better wins.

No. If you're aware that Kayode was a cruiserweight, then you should also be aware that he was roughly the #6 cruiserweight who drew with Tarver, who at the time was top 5 in the division, a titlist, and on steroids. To claim that a fighter like that is inferior to Audley Harrison is absolutely preposterous. Any of the top 25 cruiserweights would take Audley to school. Even the top 15 or top 20 cruiserweights would beat Malik Scott.

I disagree. Can you name a few examples of cruisers that moved up and were able to get wins over big top 50 heavyweights? In my opinion cruiserweights can rarely handle guys the size of Harrison and Scott. The ones who can are always guys who reached the very top of the division before moving on to heavyweight, like Holyfield and Haye. Not someone whose biggest accomplishment is a draw with a 43-year-old borderline top five cruiser. (I say borderline because Tarver was ranked as the #6 cruiserweight contender at the time by The Ring.) You also refer to Tarver as a titlist, which is correct, but it was the IBO belt, not one of the big four. It was also only his second cruiserweight bout in over a decade.

These are my main points here:

• Kayode was never the top guy at cruiser.
• Harrison and Scott both had at least 150 BoxRec pts at the time Wilder fought them.
• Harrison and Scott are both at least 6'4", 235; both have a reach over 80"

Basically, the crux of my argument is that cruisers who were never #1 do not go up to heavyweight and beat guys with the size and skill of Scott and Harrison. As far as I know, there are no examples of this happening in the past.

knurak wrote:

Lackeos wrote:

knurak wrote:Kayode was a cruiserweight until 2013 and his entire résumé was built at cruiser. I think Audley and Malik Scott were better wins.

No. If you're aware that Kayode was a cruiserweight, then you should also be aware that he was roughly the #6 cruiserweight who drew with Tarver, who at the time was top 5 in the division, a titlist, and on steroids. To claim that a fighter like that is inferior to Audley Harrison is absolutely preposterous. Any of the top 25 cruiserweights would take Audley to school. Even the top 15 or top 20 cruiserweights would beat Malik Scott.

I disagree. Can you name a few examples of cruisers that moved up and were able to get wins over big top 50 heavyweights? In my opinion cruiserweights can rarely handle guys the size of Harrison and Scott. The ones who can are always guys who reached the very top of the division before moving on to heavyweight, like Holyfield and Haye. Not someone whose biggest accomplishment is a draw with a 43-year-old borderline top five cruiser. (I say borderline because Tarver was ranked as the #6 cruiserweight contender at the time by The Ring.) You also refer to Tarver as a titlist, which is correct, but it was the IBO belt, not one of the big four. It was also only his second cruiserweight bout in over a decade.

These are my main points here:

• Kayode was never the top guy at cruiser.
• Harrison and Scott both had at least 150 BoxRec pts at the time Wilder fought them.
• Harrison and Scott are both at least 6'4", 235; both have a reach over 80"

Basically, the crux of my argument is that cruisers who were never #1 do not go up to heavyweight and beat guys with the size and skill of Scott and Harrison. As far as I know, there are no examples of this happening in the past.

david haye and thomasz adamek had some pretty good wins at the HW after moving up. Harrison is flat out terrible, he beats nobody in the top30 in HW. haye KOed Harrison and beat valuev and he was a cruiser.

ha

a classic shrodinger's cat matchup

both of these guys are sitting in their boxes either alive or dead. we just dont know yet?

its impossible to say whether this is a step up or down for either?

we just dont know

and dont expect a win for either to prove anything

dont get mad...i dont make the rules

dominik wrote:

knurak wrote: Basically, the crux of my argument is that cruisers who were never #1 do not go up to heavyweight and beat guys with the size and skill of Scott and Harrison. As far as I know, there are no examples of this happening in the past.

david haye and thomasz adamek had some pretty good wins at the HW after moving up. Harrison is flat out terrible, he beats nobody in the top30 in HW. haye KOed Harrison and beat valuev and he was a cruiser.

Haye unified three of the four belts at cruiser before moving up. Was pretty much unanimously the the #1 cruiser.

I think most considered Adamek #1 after Haye moved up, although this is a bit more debatable. Still, he had a legitimate claim as to being the #1 cruiser. I don't think the same can be said of Kayode, who never held a major title. Haye was The Ring Cruiserweight Champion in 2007, and Adamek was The Ring Cruiserweight Champion in 2008 and 2009. Kayode peaked at #5 in 2012.

Guys like Haye or Adamek are why I had to qualify it by saying 'cruisers who were never #1'.