BoxRec

What do you think?

I think he had the potential to join the list of the Super-ATGs Ali und Louis but he failed because of his lack of professionalism and the problem that he lost some of his best years because he had to go to prison. if we compare the records than i think ali, holmes, lewis.... had the better records , but tyson was without doubt one of the most gifted and most exiting hw-fighters.

It's obviously a very good legacy. You only have to see what he did to solid, credible heavies like Berbick to see he definitely had the X Factor or whatever you'd like to call it. It was a very short peak ending at 23 years effectively with the Douglas upset. Ironically I think even if he had say the work ethic and determination of Frank Bruno it still would have been a short(ish) reign. I think only a peak version of Tyson could have repelled Holyfield the first time, which would probably have led to a 3 fight series which ultimately could have gone 2-1 in Evanders favour. He was always the fighter after all who could continually improve himself. It would have made for a very punishing and career shortening series for both men. Bowe too probably would have been to much for a softened up version of Tyson. I'd see another 12 round war with Bowe coming out a 115-111 type winner. Lewis it would seem would still have ended up with the easy version to beat however dedicated Tyson was. Still I think Mike could have had better late (if sporadic) career success. Moorer for one could have been a spectacular knock-out win!

polecateddy wrote:It's obviously a very good legacy. You only have to see what he did to solid, credible heavies like Berbick to see he definitely had the X Factor or whatever you'd like to call it. It was a very short peak ending at 23 years effectively with the Douglas upset. Ironically I think even if he had say the work ethic and determination of Frank Bruno it still would have been a short(ish) reign. I think only a peak version of Tyson could have repelled Holyfield the first time, which would probably have led to a 3 fight series which ultimately could have gone 2-1 in Evanders favour. He was always the fighter after all who could continually improve himself. It would have made for a very punishing and career shortening series for both men. Bowe too probably would have been to much for a softened up version of Tyson. I'd see another 12 round war with Bowe coming out a 115-111 type winner. Lewis it would seem would still have ended up with the easy version to beat however dedicated Tyson was. Still I think Mike could have had better late (if sporadic) career success. Moorer for one could have been a spectacular knock-out win!

"It's obviously a very good legacy." polecateddy


A very good legacy?

Let's see, he goes to the can for rape, gets disqualified for biting his opponent's ear during a title fight, turns into a carnival show, and ends up his fight career in a pathetic fashion. Just to name only a few controversies among a multitude.

Yeah, some legacy.

I was once a big fan of Tyson, but he effed up badly.

The truth is the truth.

yancey: The fact you only judge his carrer since the "rape" shows that your not interest in an objective judgement.

But even his 2. second carrer shows his incredible potential. After 3-4 years in prison he destroyed the current champions Seldon und Bruno ( after all a man who defeated Lewis-Defeater MC Call) without any problems in 1 as the case may be 3 rounds. And he went 11 round against Holyfield and the fight was pulsating till the end, although he underestimated Holyfield extremly and thought he was shot. And after 5 rounds Tyson was ahead on points. in fith round tyson was very good. in the sixth tyson got a huge cut and shortly after this tyson was knocked down. i dont want to say it was intentinally from Holy , but it wasent to tysons advantage of course.

Hate him or love him, you got to see him fight. He was that exciting. I miss those days

One of the bigger draws in history and one of the more exciting Heavyweights early in fights. I'd rate him from 11-20, I think i have him 14 or 15 among Heavyweights. His lack of ring IQ kept him from reaching his full potential. if he knew how to fight on the inside he would have been amazing.

Jan wrote:yancey: The fact you only judge his carrer since the "rape" shows that your not interest in an objective judgement.

But even his 2. second carrer shows his incredible potential. After 3-4 years in prison he destroyed the current champions Seldon und Bruno ( after all a man who defeated Lewis-Defeater MC Call) without any problems in 1 as the case may be 3 rounds. And he went 11 round against Holyfield and the fight was pulsating till the end, although he underestimated Holyfield extremly and thought he was shot. And after 5 rounds Tyson was ahead on points. in fith round tyson was very good. in the sixth tyson got a huge cut and shortly after this tyson was knocked down. i dont want to say it was intentinally from Holy , but it wasent to tysons advantage of course.

Tyson won one round against Holyfield, and the cut you're speaking of was a clash of heads initiated by Mike. Great event, not a great, or very competitive, fight.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jan wrote:yancey: The fact you only judge his carrer since the "rape" shows that your not interest in an objective judgement.

But even his 2. second carrer shows his incredible potential. After 3-4 years in prison he destroyed the current champions Seldon und Bruno ( after all a man who defeated Lewis-Defeater MC Call) without any problems in 1 as the case may be 3 rounds. And he went 11 round against Holyfield and the fight was pulsating till the end, although he underestimated Holyfield extremly and thought he was shot. And after 5 rounds Tyson was ahead on points. in fith round tyson was very good. in the sixth tyson got a huge cut and shortly after this tyson was knocked down. i dont want to say it was intentinally from Holy , but it wasent to tysons advantage of course.

Tyson won one round against Holyfield, and the cut you're speaking of was a clash of heads initiated by Mike. Great event, not a great, or very competitive, fight.

Tyson won four rounds on two of the judges cards..

For a short period the most destructive fighting machine I have ever seen. I have seen few fighters who can dominate opponents as psychologically as the young Tyson could. many of his opponents beaten before the first bell rang.

Yes it all went down the pan later and his career became a circus, but c'mon that young 20 year old Tyson was a thing to behold. And lets not forget the excitement he could generate when he came to town. Even when a shell of his former self the guy could sell tickets.

evrenb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jan wrote:yancey: The fact you only judge his carrer since the "rape" shows that your not interest in an objective judgement.

But even his 2. second carrer shows his incredible potential. After 3-4 years in prison he destroyed the current champions Seldon und Bruno ( after all a man who defeated Lewis-Defeater MC Call) without any problems in 1 as the case may be 3 rounds. And he went 11 round against Holyfield and the fight was pulsating till the end, although he underestimated Holyfield extremly and thought he was shot. And after 5 rounds Tyson was ahead on points. in fith round tyson was very good. in the sixth tyson got a huge cut and shortly after this tyson was knocked down. i dont want to say it was intentinally from Holy , but it wasent to tysons advantage of course.

Tyson won one round against Holyfield, and the cut you're speaking of was a clash of heads initiated by Mike. Great event, not a great, or very competitive, fight.

Tyson won four rounds on two of the judges cards..

LOL, that settles it. the judges are always right. Evander won 7 rounds on a card in the first Lewis fight and 5 with 2 even on another. I guess it really was a draw.

The great Mike Tyson, to me, is one of the top 100 pound per pound fighters that ever lived. He deserves to be top 100. I agree with some that he is not a top 10 all time heavyweight. I put him into the 11-15 range, or borderline top 15. He cleaned up the division with a great fashion. He was something, especially in that 1986-89 era.

He makes the lower part of my top 10. His resume lacks longevity, but he burned very bright for the short fashion that his prime lasted. Not many champions can claim to have flattened an entire division the way that he did, and virtually none of them did it in such a short time and while being so young.

He was an exciting fighter, no question about it. I disliked him as much as the next guy, but you have to give him his due.
He is borderline top 10 heavyweight top 10 (I have him just outside of it). He is top 100 of All weights.

He probably had the 2nd or 3rd fastest hand speed of All-Heavyweight champion. He was one of the hardest punchers ever. He wasn't a one trick pony, he could do damage with either hand. At times he was relentless. I did always think his chin was good, but overrated.

Never understood why people will say something like "he cleaned out the division". He never fought Dokes, Page, Witherspoon, or Coatzee.

He wasn't quite as good as Holyfield and Lewis, but he was a great fighter; no question about it.

Ambling Alp II wrote:He was an exciting fighter, no question about it. I disliked him as much as the next guy, but you have to give him his due.
He is borderline top 10 heavyweight top 10 (I have him just outside of it). He is top 100 of All weights.

He probably had the 2nd or 3rd fastest hand speed of All-Heavyweight champion. He was one of the hardest punchers ever. He wasn't a one trick pony, he could do damage with either hand. At times he was relentless. I did always think his chin was good, but overrated.

Never understood why people will say something like "he cleaned out the division". He never fought Dokes, Page, Witherspoon, or Coatzee.

He wasn't quite as good as Holyfield and Lewis, but he was a great fighter; no question about it.

Considering Coatzee retired in 1986 after losing 2 of his last 4.And didn't return to the ring until 1993.
I don't hold that one against him.
I always wanted to see Tyson fight Witherspoon

Ambling Alp II wrote: Never understood why people will say something like "he cleaned out the division". He never fought Dokes, Page, Witherspoon, or Coatzee.

Because those fighters were no longer relevant by the time Tyson came into his own. Tim Witherspoon was pretty much black balled from contention after he lost to Smith in one round and tested positive for drugs.. He wouldn't earn a significant rating again until after Tyson lost to Douglas. Coetzee retired in 1986 after losing in one round to Bruno and wouldn't come back until years later. Dokes left boxing for a few years and worked his way back up into contention for Tyson's title but blew it by losing to Evander Holyfield. Greg Page was getting beat by everyone and their brother by the time Tyson was a force in the division. The best men in the division during Tyson's run were Berbick, Thomas, Smith, Tucker, Biggs, Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno and Williams... And of course Holyfield whom he signed to fight in the spring of 1990 but that fight didn't come for obvious reasons.

Wasn't trying to rip Tyson or anything. What I was trying to say was that champions don't really "clean out" the division. There is always somebody out there. You can defend the title 5 times a year for three years, and there will be new guys that come along by then. Damiani and Norris were in the mix as well. And course by 1990 there was Holyfield and Douglas.

Sorry about Coetzee, I was thinking his career overlapped with Tyson more. My memory was a little off.
Witherspoon was blackballed because he stood up to Don King. Had little to do with what he did in the ring or his drub problems. Several other guys had drug problems as well. If Tyson really wanted this fight to happen, it could have. However, Witherspoon was one of many roughly equal potential opponents out there. Had he won the 2nd Smith fight, he would have fought Tyson in the HBO tournament.

Don't see why he Dokes isn't consider one of the top contenders. He didn't fight Holyfield until 1989. He would have been a legitimate defense before that. Btw-He put up a very good fight against Holyfield.

I'm not saying Tyson ducked anyone at this time. If you aren't the #1 contender, you have no right to say you are being ducked anyway.

Again, all I was saying was that the division wasn't "cleaned out".

I guess it depends on how literal a person wants to be about the phrase " cleaned out an entire weight class." If that means actually fighting every guy with a heart beat, then I guess virtually no man has ever done it. What I myself meant by it was that he beat everyone who was relevant. Dokes worked his way back up into contention and was the #3 heavyweight in the world at the time Holfyfield beat him in march of 1989. from 1986-1988 During the peak years of Tyson's reign, Dokes was busy building himself back up after having been dropped from contention.

Witherspoon got bombed out by Smith in less than 3 minutes. That effectively, ended any realistic chance of Tyson-Witherspoon happening.

Realistically, the bad loss to Smith should have only prevented a Tyson-Witherspoon fight in the short run. That fight was in 1986. Certainly they could have fought in 1988 or 1989.
Witherspoon challenged Don King who had been cheating his fighters out of their money. King wouldn't let Witherspoon fight his fighters; which included most of the contenders and of course Tyson himself.

Who knows, without King the fight may never have happened anyway. Maybe Witherspoon would have lost to one of the other contenders and hurt his chances.

we all know tyson should of lasted longer as unbeaten champ but he was still the youngest ever champ and the most exciting , to me he's below louis , ali and holmes but i don't get why so many put lewis above tyson as lewis was chinned twice by average fighters at least tyson lost to a very good douglas on the night neither mccall or rahman were fighting with any real skill . holyfield lost to bowe and moorer as well so i don't think he rates higher than tyson either about the same ,did dempsey have a better reign i don't think so neither did frazier or foreman . for me tyson could of done better a lot better but then so could 90% of boxers ..

There is no possible scenario where Tyson rates over Holyfield. Better scalps and he whipped his ass. It's one of the few all time ranking scenarios that isn't subjective at all.

Losing to Bowe is a negative? Tyson never beat anyone of that caliber in his entire career.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Realistically, the bad loss to Smith should have only prevented a Tyson-Witherspoon fight in the short run. That fight was in 1986. Certainly they could have fought in 1988 or 1989.
Witherspoon challenged Don King who had been cheating his fighters out of their money. King wouldn't let Witherspoon fight his fighters; which included most of the contenders and of course Tyson himself.

Who knows, without King the fight may never have happened anyway. Maybe Witherspoon would have lost to one of the other contenders and hurt his chances.

For whatever its worth, I remember hearing around 1990 ( from sources that are questionable ) that Witherspoon was the only fighter that Tyson's camp was afraid of.

For whatever its worth, I remember hearing around 1990 ( from sources that are questionable ) that Witherspoon was the only fighter that Tyson's camp was afraid of.

Probably not so far from the truth to be honest; a fully-fit, clean, prepared and motivated Witherspoon had the tools to compete with the elite of any era and there had been some early signs that Tyson struggled against big men who could box, weather the storm and then hit back solidly on the counter. Someone might have seen Buster Douglas happening....long before Buster arrived.

It is always strange to discuss Tim career as a disappointment - the guy remains a bona fide world heavyweight champ - but there remains the real suspicion that he should have been so much better and more dominant.

Bodyshot3 wrote:

For whatever its worth, I remember hearing around 1990 ( from sources that are questionable ) that Witherspoon was the only fighter that Tyson's camp was afraid of.

Probably not so far from the truth to be honest; a fully-fit, clean, prepared and motivated Witherspoon had the tools to compete with the elite of any era and there had been some early signs that Tyson struggled against big men who could box, weather the storm and then hit back solidly on the counter. Someone might have seen Buster Douglas happening....long before Buster arrived.

It is always strange to discuss Tim career as a disappointment - the guy remains a bona fide world heavyweight champ - but there remains the real suspicion that he should have been so much better and more dominant.

Tim Witherspoon has always been one of my favorites.The guy had skill.
I wish he would of stayed motivated because he could of gone further than he did.

Bodyshot3 wrote:

For whatever its worth, I remember hearing around 1990 ( from sources that are questionable ) that Witherspoon was the only fighter that Tyson's camp was afraid of.

Probably not so far from the truth to be honest; a fully-fit, clean, prepared and motivated Witherspoon had the tools to compete with the elite of any era and there had been some early signs that Tyson struggled against big men who could box, weather the storm and then hit back solidly on the counter. Someone might have seen Buster Douglas happening....long before Buster arrived.

It is always strange to discuss Tim career as a disappointment - the guy remains a bona fide world heavyweight champ - but there remains the real suspicion that he should have been so much better and more dominant.

I think he had a reasonably good career ( Witherspoon ) regardless of what his potential may or may not have been. He captured two alphabet straps. Gave a near prime Holmes fits. Beat a long list of decent fighters in Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, Renaldo Snipes, James Tillis, Boncrusher Smith, James Broad, Frank Bruno, Jose Ribalta, Carl Williams, Alfred Cole, Jorge Gonzalez and arguably robbed against Ray Mercer. I think I counted that he was ranked top 10 for a combined period of about 10 years off and on. That's more than a lot of guys can claim.