BoxRec

Can someone explain the logic of this.
A Manager's licence cannot be applied for unless the person applying has held another version of a licence for three years.
That could be a Promoter, Second, Trainer etc.
By implication the Board is saying that a Manager is only capable of fulfilling the role if for instance he knows how to hold a bucket in the corner and can demonstrate he's capable of doing that for three years.
Is this another example of the dinosaur that is the Board not getting with the times and in some respects keeping jobs for the boys ?

I've always thought it was to put the chancers, spivs and leeches off until such time they have shown some genuine commitment to the sport and learn the nuances of the game. I'm sure some really great managers could come in off the street or from other sports/businesses but, for every good one, you'd get dozens of tossers who would do people's heads in.

I think its a good idea theresa lot of things i learnt as a trainer and matchmaker that helped with managing lads I could have made some terrible mistakes without that experiance.

But surely that's what the interview and examination exists for ?
What about people who know how to "manage" but can't box for toffee ?
Laurie McMenemy was one of footballs greatest managers but never kicked a ball in anger.
It is a bitter pill to swallow your argument when the Board grant Promoters licences to people who have bust Companies and not paid Creditors.

Im just talking from personal experiance that i would have definatly made some serious mistakes going for a managers licence straight away.Iv held promoters,matchmakers,whips,trainer and managers licence and the promoters and managers licence is defo the ones where i agree experiance is needed and training on the job is not a good idea.
oh and a boxing licence lol

I understand what you're saying, Parson, and it's something I've thought about myself. I'm not convinced either way. Managers are in the best position to help fighters but also the best position to abuse them, they can also cause major headaches for everybody else.

So could you technically apply for a promoters license, get one, and then not promote anything for 3 years and then be entitled to apply for a managers licence???

Also, how do you apply for a promoters licence in Britain, is there certain criteria you need to pass in order to get one of those???

Could say, Richard Branson decide to apply for a promoters licence and promote a one of event just for fun??? He could get loads of decent fights on the card because he would be prepared (hypothetically) to pay the fighters much more than what they would usually receive???

From what I've been told, the board will consider people for a manager's licence without them holding others in some exceptional circumstances. I think with your connects with the sport, your contacts and who you have worked with Mick you should contact the board and sound them out.

I concur. Discretion.

Parson Cross wrote:But surely that's what the interview and examination exists for ?
What about people who know how to "manage" but can't box for toffee ?
Laurie McMenemy was one of footballs greatest managers but never kicked a ball in anger.
It is a bitter pill to swallow your argument when the Board grant Promoters licences to people who have bust Companies and not paid Creditors.

I'm with Parsons on this on. Plus in my case they wont accept being a manager/licence-holder in another EBU jurisdiction as being good enough.

In effect you could be a manager for 30 years in Dublin but the BBBoC wont give you a licence to a guy you want to sign in Belfast until you sit three years out with a licence to hold a spit bucket.

I understand the reason for the rule but they needs to a common sense rule to override it as well.

Wake up call wrote:From what I've been told, the board will consider people for a manager's licence without them holding others in some exceptional circumstances. I think with your connects with the sport, your contacts and who you have worked with Mick you should contact the board and sound them out.

The Board turned Gary Hyde (manager of Rigondeaux) down for a licence citing the "three year rule". :/

PokerRob wrote:So could you technically apply for a promoters license, get one, and then not promote anything for 3 years and then be entitled to apply for a managers licence???

Also, how do you apply for a promoters licence in Britain, is there certain criteria you need to pass in order to get one of those???

Could say, Richard Branson decide to apply for a promoters licence and promote a one of event just for fun??? He could get loads of decent fights on the card because he would be prepared (hypothetically) to pay the fighters much more than what they would usually receive???

Nope, they’ll give anyone a promoters licence as long as you stump up the bond and licence fee. Strange one aint it.

Being devils advocate here and Slam youv dealt with guys who have got managers licences without proper experiance.The worst guys to deal with in the game matching or promoting are brand new trainers or agents etc that really havnt got a clue what is going on this is usualy tempered by the fact you have a more experianced manager to talk sense and explain how it actualy really works.
Im not saying there arnt notable exceptions but I think the majority of new licence holders would struggle as managers as they they have a lot of time getting it right as trainers without a manager helping to guide them.
Its just a rule and one that i happen to agree with tbf i had to wait the three year rule and it did me no harm personally in fact it made me better equipped when i did get a manager licence to do the job required of me.
I'm afraid the guys such as yrself that the rule is harsh on are vastley outnumbered by the guys who would cause havoc in the boxing world if it wasnt there.

slapbangwhallop wrote:

PokerRob wrote:So could you technically apply for a promoters license, get one, and then not promote anything for 3 years and then be entitled to apply for a managers licence???

Also, how do you apply for a promoters licence in Britain, is there certain criteria you need to pass in order to get one of those???

Could say, Richard Branson decide to apply for a promoters licence and promote a one of event just for fun??? He could get loads of decent fights on the card because he would be prepared (hypothetically) to pay the fighters much more than what they would usually receive???

Nope, they’ll give anyone a promoters licence as long as you stump up the bond and licence fee. Strange one aint it.

This is another area i think should be the same as the managers licence.Although i have seen promoters get refused when its clear they havnt got a clue.

jonp wrote:Being devils advocate here and Slam youv dealt with guys who have got managers licences without proper experiance.The worst guys to deal with in the game matching or promoting are brand new trainers or agents etc that really havnt got a clue what is going on this is usualy tempered by the fact you have a more experianced manager to talk sense and explain how it actualy really works.
Im not saying there arnt notable exceptions but I think the majority of new licence holders would struggle as managers as they they have a lot of time getting it right as trainers without a manager helping to guide them.
Its just a rule and one that i happen to agree with tbf i had to wait the three year rule and it did me no harm personally in fact it made me better equipped when i did get a manager licence to do the job required of me.
I'm afraid the guys such as yrself that the rule is harsh on are vastley outnumbered by the guys who would cause havoc in the boxing world if it wasnt there.

I agree, it keeps out the spivs and divs. I actually dont really see it as being harsh on myself, I'm still pretty green around the gills (as you know, say no more!!) and need years before I could really hold my own, its just the likes of Brian Peters or Gary Hyde etc that it seems bizarre for.

Yeh you have a got a great point there and you would hope a bit of common sense would come in with guys like that.I suppose like many rules looking at it from a certain angle makes it look broken but then from another it works. I think in these cases there has to be some kind of leeway

I can think of at least two big name fighters who are effectively managed by people who do not hold licences.

I don't agree with that at all, but sometimes a fighter says "x deals with my affairs now" and the promoters go with it because they don't want to upset the fighter. They get around it by calling these people "advisers", but they are the ones pulling the strings in reality.

Andy,
I've asked but it's a no.
I've got recommendations from a list of people in the game longer than my arm but still got a no.
Many of the people at the Board I've dealt with on boxing matters.
I know the rules etc inside out but no way do I want anything to do with stuff inside the ring. That's for Trainers and Seconds.
Why not make Managers pay a bond ?

Andy,
I know of instances as well.
I understand both sides of the argument to be fair but like I said earlier for the life of me how does holding a spit bucket for three years turn me into a worthy manager ?

slapbangwhallop wrote:

PokerRob wrote:So could you technically apply for a promoters license, get one, and then not promote anything for 3 years and then be entitled to apply for a managers licence???

Also, how do you apply for a promoters licence in Britain, is there certain criteria you need to pass in order to get one of those???

Could say, Richard Branson decide to apply for a promoters licence and promote a one of event just for fun??? He could get loads of decent fights on the card because he would be prepared (hypothetically) to pay the fighters much more than what they would usually receive???

Nope, they’ll give anyone a promoters licence as long as you stump up the bond and licence fee. Strange one aint it.

Tis a strange one that!!!

Parson Cross wrote:Andy,
I know of instances as well.
I understand both sides of the argument to be fair but like I said earlier for the life of me how does holding a spit bucket for three years turn me into a worthy manager ?

It doesnt have to be a seconds licence it can be a boxers licence,whips licence promoters,mc licence even a refs licence in one case.I dont think holding the bucket automatically qualifies you it just fills in that bit of the criteria you still have to have the interview and pass that.

jonp wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Andy,
I know of instances as well.
I understand both sides of the argument to be fair but like I said earlier for the life of me how does holding a spit bucket for three years turn me into a worthy manager ?

It doesnt have to be a seconds licence it can be a boxers licence,whips licence promoters,mc licence even a refs licence in one case.I dont think holding the bucket automatically qualifies you it just fills in that bit of the criteria you still have to have the interview and pass that.

Spot on Jon also as you are aware that the midlands area don't just hand licences out the applicant has to know the regulations or else he won't get a licence simple really

Spudder,
I've worked on the perifory of boxing since 1980.
I've represented boxers at hearings with the Board.
I've sat in on negotiations on contracts and purse negotiations.
I know the regulations from cover to cover.
I'm not asking for a hand out.
What I'm saying is why does someone like myself who (in my humble opinion) has served his apprenticeship have to hold a licence for three years for something I'm not remotely wanting to do - because I'm not capable of doing training, promoting seconding etc etc - just to do what I can do well ?

I don't get it.

I vividly remember a senior officer sitting me down and explaining how the army is like an oil tanker (he actually said 'VLCC' and I had to ask him to clarify) in that once it's set on particular course, significant deviations or stopping forward momentum take time, cost money, and, when they're not on the charted course, can make the captain look like an idiot. It was a nice way of telling me to 'fornicate off, wait my turn, and do things by the book' when I'd put in a request that was out of step with the norm.