BoxRec

Who is the greatest Irish American fighter of all time? I'm going for Gene Tunney.

Irish-American boxers (incomplete list)

Historically, both the wrestling and boxing game gained credability and real status as a sport because of the massive influx of Irish in America. The first major star in America was the original Jack Dempsey, the middleweight king. John L. Sullivan, despite whatever criticisms people may have of him, was America's first icon outside of George Washington. He legitimized boxing, bringing it from a past time considered worse than rat baiting into a multi-million dollar enterprise.

As far as actual ability, talent, and all around status among the elites of history, that is a very difficult question. What truly constitutes an Irish-American? After all, most the stars who had Irish ancestry were either 4th-5th generation Americans. To me that isn't an Irish-American, that's an American of Irish descent.

Outside of George Washington, John L was the first American icon? huh? There were some others, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson to name a couple.

As for the original question, I would pick Tunney.

Ettt9350 wrote:Who is the greatest Irish American fighter of all time? I'm going for Gene Tunney.

In historical order-
The great John L
Terry McGovern
Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker

I'd put McLarnin's name out there. And of course Packy McFarland.

It may well be between these two.

Jimmy Barry deserves a mention.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Outside of George Washington, John L was the first American icon? huh? There were some others, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson to name a couple.

As for the original question, I would pick Tunney.

Yes, I would argue that Sullivan was America's first true superstar and international export and icon.

A true man of the people, and who truly personified his age. His loss to Corbett, let alone his death, was considered a national calamity. A true "end of an era", a phrase we often throw around today--- but he was, without question, the first athlete to become not only a celebrity off the merit of his prowess, but also the first to cross over into other fields of entertainment. As stated in threads before, could you imagine Mayweather or even Ali being not only the most popular athlete in the world--- but also the #1 box office attraction in film or theatre? The popularity of this man, how much he was loved and adored the world over, is something even in this day and age of instant gratification and 24/7 news--- it hasn't been, and probably never will again be replicated.

He was arguably America's first sports superstar. He was not an icon on the level of Ben Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson etc.

Ambling Alp II wrote:He was arguably America's first sports superstar. He was not an icon on the level of Ben Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson etc.

I believe he was on par with them.

From anytime from 1882 to now, I guarantee you that more people would have heard of George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln than John L. Sullivan. Many more people would be able to identify them from a photograph as well than Sullivan.

It helps, I guess, that their faces are on national currency...

Nothing more helpful than Alp being right by a country mile. Though we're all used to you supporting your idiotic statements. Your level of stupidity is epic.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing more helpful than Alp being right by a country mile. Though we're all used to you supporting your idiotic statements. Your level of stupidity is epic.

Ah, another rant/slam my way. It's to be expected from atheists, socialists, etc.

Saad the fvcking Commie. No wonder he has a woody for GGG.

I'm a Republican and a Catholic, you're still a drooling imbecile. Though I can see where a useless creature like yourself on the planet could make one question their faith.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm a Republican and a Catholic, you're still a drooling imbecile. Though I can see where a useless creature like yourself on the planet could make one question their faith.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I gotta give it to you, that was hilarious.

Though I dont understand altogether what you're fanatical hatred or disposition is against me.

Is this all because of that one thread in "Off Topic" about wars and the like?

Shit man... live and let live... I've already forgotten it, so should you.

If it has anything to do with boxing--- I can say that my thoughts have changed alot since I was ten years old when I first became introduced to the sport. At one time, believe it or not, had Jack Johnson as the #1 heavyweight of all time. Was probably 17-18 at the time. Oh wells. Long as I live am sure I will find reasons and learn new facts previously unknown and change my top ten-twenty list all over again.

*Shakes your hand* life's too short Saad to hold on to resentments and anger and bullshit. No one is ever gonna agree entirely on anything, or be as smart or as wise or knowledgable as someone else, etc. We're all just people, and we all live on one planet, and live one life. Better figure out how to get along. Maybe one day I'll buy you a beer. If not, hey, I'll see you in the next life when we are all how we are supposed to be, and not as we are here on earth.

LOL, I don't hate you. I don't even know you. Fun and games for me. You just say a lot of incredibly stupid sh!t and I have fun with it. Nothing more than that.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:LOL, I don't hate you. I don't even know you. Fun and games for me. You just say a lot of incredibly stupid sh!t and I have fun with it. Nothing more than that.

I guess at the end of the day, it all depends what one wants to determine as being "real" or "intelligent" to ones self. As I said before, no one will ever entirely agree with anything anyone ever thinks or believes. I think it was Gandhi who said (along the lines) "There are five billion people, therefore there are five billion religions." To each their own.

However, I am curious as to what you find to be "incredibly stupid sh!t". Maybe one day you will humor me, and send me an inbox as to what you find disagreeable and can have a discussion without dozens of other people jumping in and distracting our trains of thought.

Ezzard wrote:I'd put McLarnin's name out there. And of course Packy McFarland.

It may well be between these two.

McLarnin was Irish-Canadian rather than than Irish-American.

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:LOL, I don't hate you. I don't even know you. Fun and games for me. You just say a lot of incredibly stupid sh!t and I have fun with it. Nothing more than that.

I guess at the end of the day, it all depends what one wants to determine as being "real" or "intelligent" to ones self. As I said before, no one will ever entirely agree with anything anyone ever thinks or believes. I think it was Gandhi who said (along the lines) "There are five billion people, therefore there are five billion religions." To each their own.

However, I am curious as to what you find to be "incredibly stupid sh!t". Maybe one day you will humor me, and send me an inbox as to what you find disagreeable and can have a discussion without dozens of other people jumping in and distracting our trains of thought.

Buddy, this isn't serious enough to me to keep ledgers on what I deem to be stupid. Putting John L Sullivan on a par with Thomas Jefferson is a start. Again, even my nastiest comments aren't personal. It's just the internet and that is how my friends and I interact. You'd see my laughing saying the same thing in person that comes off raging in print.

Probably Slugger O'Tool.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:LOL, I don't hate you. I don't even know you. Fun and games for me. You just say a lot of incredibly stupid sh!t and I have fun with it. Nothing more than that.

I guess at the end of the day, it all depends what one wants to determine as being "real" or "intelligent" to ones self. As I said before, no one will ever entirely agree with anything anyone ever thinks or believes. I think it was Gandhi who said (along the lines) "There are five billion people, therefore there are five billion religions." To each their own.

However, I am curious as to what you find to be "incredibly stupid sh!t". Maybe one day you will humor me, and send me an inbox as to what you find disagreeable and can have a discussion without dozens of other people jumping in and distracting our trains of thought.

Buddy, this isn't serious enough to me to keep ledgers on what I deem to be stupid. Putting John L Sullivan on a par with Thomas Jefferson is a start. Again, even my nastiest comments aren't personal. It's just the internet and that is how my friends and I interact. You'd see my laughing saying the same thing in person that comes off raging in print.

I guess my logic, in a sense, is social importance. Jefferson and Franklin, Washington and Adams, were (in my view) important to world history and the balances of power in the light of what was right. As far as America and society, though, Sullivan was as big as anyone in this country's history, including the Presidents. For his entire career, it can be said that he had America in the palm of his hand--- and his international fame was virtually the same as it was in America.

No, it would be illogical or even blasphemous to say Sullivan in the grand scheme of history, is on par with those men. But social significance, worth, legacy, respect, admiration, and legacy--- Sullivan I would argue was every bit as big as Paul Bunyan, John Henry*, Johnny Appleseed*, Pecos Bill and other mythological figures in the eyes of Americans. Hell, still to this day, the man is almost talked about in legendary terms because he was the link between not just bare fists and gloves, but the "old world" and the "new world"--- a man who belongs to the age of Billy The Kid, John Wesley Hardin, Frank and Jesse James, etc. and who we wish were still among us.



*Yes, am aware that both John Henry and Johnny Appleseed (John Chapman) were real people, even though they are apart of the American lexicon known as "Tall Tales", hence why I mentioned them.

That's the stuff! Much love hank.

Mickey Walker would take the top spot for me. He fought Hall-of-Famers in Britton, Shade, Tendler, Greb, Flowers, Berlenbach, Loughran, Sharkey, Schmeling, Brouillard, Rosenbloom and Corbett III. He won some, lost some, but he was game as any man. He fought many other good fighters too, from welterweight to heavyweight.