BoxRec

They almost always drop a 5 star bout to a 4 star bout the night before the fight is to take place?!?!?

Recent example being Povetkin vs Taken.

It has been a 5 star fight on BoxRec ever since it was first announced and now for some unknow reason it has changed to a 4 star fight?!?!? Even though Povetkin is ranked 464 and Takem 465, and BoxRec's policy states... 'Men - 5 stars = both opponents have 331 ratings points at least ~ best 100 boxers'.

Ive noticed this happen multiple times!!!

fergusg wrote:

PokerRob wrote:They almost always drop a 5 star bout to a 4 star bout the night before the fight is to take place?!?!?

Recent example being Povetkin vs Taken.

It has been a 5 star fight on BoxRec ever since it was first announced and now for some unknow reason it has changed to a 4 star fight?!?!? Even though Povetkin is ranked 464 and Takem 465, and BoxRec's policy states... 'Men - 5 stars = both opponents have 331 ratings points at least ~ best 100 boxers'.

Ive noticed this happen multiple times!!!

What’s the implications? I assume the consequences are extremely dramatic, considering the passionate tone of your post? :??

I think I have a form of OCD lol

Hey man, how else will he know whether a fight is worth watching if not for the all-knowing boxrec star rating system?!

chucktaylor wrote:Hey man, how else will he know whether a fight is worth watching if not for the all-knowing boxrec star rating system?!

Very funny, but whats the logic behind it? Has nobody else really not noticed this?

Guaranteed Hopkins v Kovalev will drop to 4 star the day before the fight!

PokerRob wrote:

chucktaylor wrote:Hey man, how else will he know whether a fight is worth watching if not for the all-knowing boxrec star rating system?!

Very funny, but whats the logic behind it? Has nobody else really not noticed this?

Guaranteed Hopkins v Kovalev will drop to 4 star the day before the fight!

I've definitely noticed it. I realized the star ratings are basically worthless when I saw Froch-Groves II listed as a 4-star, but I don't think most boxrec users would pay a lot attention to them even if they were an accurate reflection of reality.
FWIW, I don't think Povetkin vs Takam should have 5 stars- 4 actually sounds about right given the magnitude of it.

I think it is based on the lowest fighter rating. Did Takam's rating drop ?

It's funny you should mention this. Slighly off topic and i dont know if anyone can answer this or not but is there a reason why Julio Cesar Chavez jnr is listed as being the third best super middleweight in the world when the only guy he's beaten at super middleweight is Brian Vera who himself is not a top super-middleweight?!

They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division.

Regarding Takam and Povetkin, they are #5 and #6 in boxrec ratings with just one point between them, and none lost any points since their last fights. I don't see any reasonable explanation why the fight rating would drop.

I'm pretty much at a loss for answering the OP's question. It seems like all of his info checks out.

lefty wrote:It's funny you should mention this. Slighly off topic and i dont know if anyone can answer this or not but is there a reason why Julio Cesar Chavez jnr is listed as being the third best super middleweight in the world when the only guy he's beaten at super middleweight is Brian Vera who himself is not a top super-middleweight?!

At the time that JCC Jr. beat Andy Lee and Marco Rubio, they had ratings that were basically equal to what Abraham and Stieglitz's ratings are now. That alone pretty much explains it, although it gets time-consuming to explain the further questions of why Rubio's and Lee's ratings were so inflated and why Abraham's and Stieglitz's ratings are so deflated. But a big reason Abraham's and Stieglitz's ratings are so weak is because they've basically been trading points back and forth between each other, and haven't really beaten anyone else with a respectable rating since 2009. They would be sitting pretty right now if they had been feasting on gatekeepers with 250-400 ratings, but even if that were their strategy, the SMW division is pretty bare of fighters fitting that description, whereas the middleweight division has ample numbers of them. Note that at one point, Abraham had a rating of 835 from feasting on gatekeepers like Edison Miranda and Wayne Elcock, and Bute ascended to a rating of 934 mainly from feasting on gatekeepers like Librado Andrade and Alejandro Berrio. But while gatekeepers with fat-ass ratings use to be plentiful, and feasting on them was previously a valid path to a fat rating, now they are scarce at SMW.

Also, it's more than plausible that JCC Jr. may actually beat Abraham if that fight went down.

PokerRob wrote: Even though Povetkin is ranked 464 and Takem 465, and BoxRec's policy states... 'Men - 5 stars = both opponents have 331 ratings points at least ~ best 100 boxers'.

Ive noticed this happen multiple times!!!

povetkin is ranked 6 by boxrec with 464 rankings points.
takem is ranked 5 by boxrec with 465 rankings point.
therefore, both have much more than the minimum rankings points for that star level and also the required rankings.
the computer seems to be awarding the stars according to stated formula.

if you read the formula for how many ratings points are assigned, the computer is updated
after midnight every night. your points are determined not only by your performance
against a particular opponent with so many points on that day, but they are constantly being
recalculated every night so if your last opponent gets ko'd by a bum in the first round and
his points drop significantly, then the points you had for beating that guy may also be
recalculated nightly. the longer you go without fighting, and also the longer opponents on
your record go, your points are adjusted. your points can also go up without fighting if you
had beaten someone who goes on to beat good fighters. i've seen stars added before fights
on the schedule.

Boxrec is trying to f#ck with your OCD.

ikorolev wrote:They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division.

I know. MW is crazy deep and SWM is wide open. Imagine if Taylor, Martinez, Cotto, Geale and Jacobs moved up tomorrow? That top 10 would be looking a whole lot different before the end of 2015!

clopixolacuphase wrote:

ikorolev wrote:They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division.

I know. MW is crazy deep and SWM is wide open. Imagine if Taylor, Martinez, Cotto, Geale and Jacobs moved up tomorrow? That top 10 would be looking a whole lot different before the end of 2015!

Taylor and Cotto are exceptions who took advantage of shot opponents. I am pretty sure that Chavez, Murray, Quillin, other bigger middleweights will do just fine against Groves, DeGale, etc.

ikorolev wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:

ikorolev wrote:They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division.

I know. MW is crazy deep and SWM is wide open. Imagine if Taylor, Martinez, Cotto, Geale and Jacobs moved up tomorrow? That top 10 would be looking a whole lot different before the end of 2015!

Taylor and Cotto are exceptions who took advantage of shot opponents. I am pretty sure that Chavez, Murray, Quillin, other bigger middleweights will do just fine against Groves, DeGale, etc.

And this is based on?

I don't need boxrec stars to tell me if I should watch a fight.

ikorolev wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:

ikorolev wrote:They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division.

I know. MW is crazy deep and SWM is wide open. Imagine if Taylor, Martinez, Cotto, Geale and Jacobs moved up tomorrow? That top 10 would be looking a whole lot different before the end of 2015!

Taylor and Cotto are exceptions who took advantage of shot opponents. I am pretty sure that Chavez, Murray, Quillin, other bigger middleweights will do just fine against Groves, DeGale, etc.

I think Groves and Degale would deal with the likes of Murray and Geale. Quillin im not totally sure about but that's also because i dont know how good he really is. Degale would beat Chavez i think and Groves could too if his chin held up.

lefty wrote:

ikorolev wrote:They just used his MW and lower weight points which means that the MW division is not that shallow as some say, and SMW is not that deep. He would be only fifth if listed in MW. There is a huge gap between Ward, Froch and everybody else in SMW division. Taylor and Cotto are exceptions who took advantage of shot opponents. I am pretty sure that Chavez, Murray, Quillin, other bigger middleweights will do just fine against Groves, DeGale, etc.

I think Groves and Degale would deal with the likes of Murray and Geale. Quillin im not totally sure about but that's also because i dont know how good he really is. Degale would beat Chavez i think and Groves could too if his chin held up.

You won't get Ikorolev to see your way of thinking. I don't know if you know but he really likes Golovkin (as pretty much all of us do) and is convinced he'll just walk through Andre Ward, and the other super middles are as good as dead. This could be true, but when people say something fairly reasonable, like well Golovkin looks mustard but actually he hasn't even fought the best in his own division (who admittedly are ducking him) and actually, could it be possible that a good few of the top ten SMW's would chop down all his recent opponents in much the same fashion? Possibly? Not definitely, but surely possibly?

And that MW is terrible division where it's much easier to be an avoided destroyer at the moment with walking corpses and midgets holding titles and everyone is so afraid of fighting each other, let alone moving up, whereas at SMW almost everyone in the top ten has fought somebody else in the top ten, sometimes more than once, and there have been close fights and KO's and there's good strong big tested guys with professional experience and actually quite good amatuer credentials (some olympic medalists I think?) and people who have outpointed and KO'd Golovkin's big amatuer scalps (Dirrell and Bute) amongst other reasonable arguments.

So anyway, he saw a chance to make an argument that MW isn't all that bad and actually is comparable with SMW, without mentioning his favourite fighter. But I'm like Sherlock jeffing Holmes you know? I can see them clues man! I got you! Nice try. Just Helping you out Lefty, in case you were getting drawn in there!

Ikoralev Golovkin is smashing. He's great. We all like him. But get off his nuts dude. It's annoying.

He just said DeGale and Groves are a "warm up" for Golovkin on another thread, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

The guy is one step away from talking about Golovkin-1988 Holyfield at cruiser as a match up that might trouble GGG.

Bobbyptsd wrote:He just said DeGale and Groves are a "warm up" for Golovkin on another thread, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

The guy is one step away from talking about Golovkin-1988 Holyfield at cruiser as a match up that might trouble GGG.

I guess Bobby's humor didn't become any better while he was using it in other forums. Well, whatever. you can't demand too much from a person with PTSD.

Yes, DeGale and Groves would be a good "warm up" for Golovkin before the Ward fight. Not sure what is wrong with that statement.

By the way, Smartass #2 (clopixolacuphase), I have never said that Golovkin will walk through Ward. What I said in different threads is that Ward won't be able to avoid GGG power punches for 12 rounds or I think that Golovkin has tools to handle Ward. In no way I think that it will be easy or that Golovkin's win is a certainty.

sucracristo wrote:

PokerRob wrote: Even though Povetkin is ranked 464 and Takem 465, and BoxRec's policy states... 'Men - 5 stars = both opponents have 331 ratings points at least ~ best 100 boxers'.

Ive noticed this happen multiple times!!!

povetkin is ranked 6 by boxrec with 464 rankings points.
takem is ranked 5 by boxrec with 465 rankings point.
therefore, both have much more than the minimum rankings points for that star level and also the required rankings.
the computer seems to be awarding the stars according to stated formula.

if you read the formula for how many ratings points are assigned, the computer is updated
after midnight every night. your points are determined not only by your performance
against a particular opponent with so many points on that day, but they are constantly being
recalculated every night so if your last opponent gets ko'd by a bum in the first round and
his points drop significantly, then the points you had for beating that guy may also be
recalculated nightly. the longer you go without fighting, and also the longer opponents on
your record go, your points are adjusted. your points can also go up without fighting if you
had beaten someone who goes on to beat good fighters. i've seen stars added before fights
on the schedule.

This is not correct. Fighters don't retroactively have their ratings adjusted based on what their victims have done in future fights. Takam's defeat today will not cause Tony Thompson's rating to drop by even a point tomorrow. Apart from the points you gain or lose from a fight at the actual time of the fight, ratings are only adjusted at other times as follows...
-When poor opposition penalties are applied, which is when a fighter has gone 18 months without fighting an opponent of at least half of his own rating.
-Ratings are adjusted whenever a fighter moves up or down in weight.
-If the boxrec points formula is adjusted, for example to give more or less weight to hometown advantage, then the point value of every result of all-time gets recomputed.

How are ratings adjusted when a fighter moves up or down in weight ? Can you illustrate it with Chavez ?

ikorolev wrote:How are ratings adjusted when a fighter moves up or down in weight ? Can you illustrate it with Chavez ?

A fighter's rating is adjusted by multiplying it by the square of the ratio of the old weight limit to the new one. So when Chavez fought Vera the first time, he had a 490 rating as a middleweight, and was fighting what boxrec considered a light heavyweight fight, so 490 * (160/175)^2 = 409.6, and the ratings history says his rating was 409 going into that fight. When Chavez fought Vera the second time, he had a 451 rating as a light heavyweight, and was fighting what boxrec considered a super middleweight fight, so 451 * (175/168)^2 = 489.4, and the ratings history says his rating was 489 going into that fight.

The heavyweight division doesn't have a weight limit, so you might wonder what number it uses for the calculation in that case. I have not read anything official, but from looking at the rating adjustments made to Huck, Adamek, and Cunningham, I have surmised that it is using a number really close to 239.5.