BoxRec

Where do you rate him alltime ? And what do you think his strengths and weaknesses were ?

I rate him just under Fabrice Tiozzo.

On of the big enigmas of the modern era.....long championship reign, lots of stoppage wins and a smattering of credible names beaten here and there as well.

But all hometown fights and a big percentage of the championship campaign involved beating anyone the WBO viewed as having two working eyes, a heartbeat and owning a valid passport or names on the slide. There's a whole lot of dross in there and the cynicism towards the achievements of German-based world champions largely started with this guy.

He'll always be a figure of interest because he was successful and exciting whilst never proving himself in a credible way....so plenty of scope for some 'what if' scenarios. And the ultimate what if centres around Roy Jones.

Just for the record......Jones would have had Dariusz on toast with a topping of his choice, and I was surprised that Roy never took the fight.

He's either one of the most over-rated, or under-rated fighters there's been in the passed thirty years or better.

There really is no inbetween for him. From May 1993 until March of 2003 he had an incredible career. Alot of the names on his record don't really register with fans today, because most were of the European stock. However, he did hold wins over Virgil Hill (where Dariusz also won the WBA/IBF titles but was later stripped), Montell Griffin, Graciano Rocchigiani (twice) and Richard Hall.*

Despite having 23 title defenses, his impact on the sport was very minimal. No fault of his own, really, except for logistics and the fact that no one could really pronounce his name and he didn't speak good English. Sadly, he will be best remembered for the "fight that never was", which was Roy Jones. For various reason the fight never happened, but the consensus was that Jones was "the star" and he dictated where he wanted to fight, and he didn't want to fight in Europe because he was "robbed" in the Olympics so many years ago, etc.

I believe, the last time it was discussed, was in late 2003. This was, of course, before the Jones "experiment" at heavyweight against Ruiz. Alot of people were hoping the Dariusz fight would happen after Ruiz, but unfortunately Dariusz would lose (at last) in back to back losses and retired. Jones, of course, would come back to LHW and never was the same man again--- "winning" a highly controversial decision over Tarver, and then getting kayoed in the return bout.

In retrospect, considering how both Jones and Dariusz lost seemingly around the same time, in such devestating fashion as they did--- it makes one wonder, who really would of come out on top, as both men were obviously nowhere near the same as they were. Jones--- in my mind--- was more physically and mentally drained from his losses, than was Dariusz. Though I would argue, in the minds of many it was more of a shock to see the 48-0-0 fighter (Dariusz) lose to the likes of Gonzalez and Tiozzo.

* Graciano Rocchigiani was the "claimer" to the world title, after Jones allegedly left the division to go face Buster Douglas, but soon after Rocchigiani won Jones came back saying he never did give up his claims, and the organizations shamelessly called it all a "typographical error"

I thought he was very good and think he would have given Jones hell. He was a rugged pressure fighter with a good punch, good skills, and a good amateur pedigree. His frenetic style and timing would have been a nightmare for Jones who liked to fight at his own pace and take breathers when he wanted to. He would have had his hands full with Michalczewski and he knew it. Nevermind that Michalczewski was the established unified champion before Jones started collecting his gimme paper titles. Its a damn shame when a legit unified lineal champion, regardless of where he is from, gets sidelighted by the media and fans alike in favor of a protected hype job who was all flash and no substance.

Very solid fighter, he certainly would belong in the HOF before Virgil Hill.

Michalczewski vs Calzaghe would have been WAR should Joe has stepped up to LH sooner.

Good champion. Very effective pressure fighter, had a way of making guys tire without high output by constantly staying on top of them, cutting the ring off very effectively and making them weary of his very heavy hands..
He certainly was a brutal puncher - even his jab was a weapon. Great stamina too, rock-solid chin and roughness. On weak side, he could've been outworked, his basic European style has it's disadventages and he tend to block punches very close to his face, not being very sharp with his defence overal - particulary on the inside, on the outside he was able to stop Hills jab very effectively for example, but then against lesser guys with a bit different type of offence he would get hit way more.
Against Roy you'd have to give him a punchers chance, as he probably would've been the biggest puncher that Roy has faced, but other than that he would've been bamboozeld. Shame that it never happend, but Michalczewski said that US TV didn't want to pay him good enough to make it worth for him to leave Germany. I don't think him or his promoters ever wanted the fight, much more to lose than to win.

Then why/how did Fabrice beat him? They both were at the end of their relative careers. So all things being equal.

Oh wait...Fabrice was quite good.

Never mind.

klompton wrote:I thought he was very good and think he would have given Jones hell. He was a rugged pressure fighter with a good punch, good skills, and a good amateur pedigree. His frenetic style and timing would have been a nightmare for Jones who liked to fight at his own pace and take breathers when he wanted to. He would have had his hands full with Michalczewski and he knew it. Nevermind that Michalczewski was the established unified champion before Jones started collecting his gimme paper titles. Its a damn shame when a legit unified lineal champion, regardless of where he is from, gets sidelighted by the media and fans alike in favor of a protected hype job who was all flash and no substance.

I figured he'd be the exact kind of fighter you'd hate. Your tastes are remarkably inconsistent. Oh well, how'd you like his first fight against Rocky?

he was exciting and protected at the same time.
never fighting in america was a choice that predictably
would hurt his legacy. i think both he and roy were
not super eager facing each other, though at one
point i thought dariusz really wanted it. yet by then
it was too late.

he was good and solid, but a tricky bastard as well.
the show against rocchigiani in their first was really
a joke.

he was one of the first big successes of german boxing
management, that on-boarded eastern europeans. their
intention was to establish germany as a player and for
that they needed title fights at home and long term
belt holders. so dariusz along with others had support,
that did the opposite of the usual route, namely going
to america and "make it there". and whatever we think
about certain boxers' legacy, it really worked, germany
- out of nowhere - became a constant supplier of world
champions.

man wrote:he was exciting and protected at the same time.
never fighting in america was a choice that predictably
would hurt his legacy. i think both he and roy were
not super eager facing each other, though at one
point i thought dariusz really wanted it. yet by then
it was too late.

Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

davie wrote:

man wrote:he was exciting and protected at the same time.
never fighting in america was a choice that predictably
would hurt his legacy. i think both he and roy were
not super eager facing each other, though at one
point i thought dariusz really wanted it. yet by then
it was too late.

Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

no but it should, American boxers seem to get away with not travelling, probably because they are so poor at getting results abroad.

He has a number of common opponents with Jones and has better results against the majority of them.

The fight was chased, I'm not entirely sure either of them necessarily wanted it or to travel abroad, although I am fairly certain that DM was at a number of Jones' fights, ringside so that at least proves he had no issue travelling. It was the only fight at 175 worth talking about during that period.

Jones' reluctance to travel is clearly down to the shafting he got at the Olympics but also down to the fact he was calling the shots at HBO and getting good money for fairly low demanding fights.

Good fighter with an entertaining style. Being entertaining in boxing means people hit you back, and that wears on guys faster than those who's game is predicated on not being hit. When they start to go down, usually the curve is like falling off a cliff more than a slide. I don't ultimately punish him a ton for the losses at the end of his career.

In fairness however, there's a lot of "not very good" on his record. It isn't fair to criticize Roy for fighting bums as I often do and not do so for the guy who made defenses against the likes of Alejandro Lakatos and Ka-Dy King. Shame we never saw the two guys fight that mattered most at 175, but the decision to let it ride has basically led to everything since in boxing IMO.

Would Jones have beat Fabrice, on the day those two tangled?

I'm actually making a case for Tiozzo here, more than dumping on Dariusz or Roy

The fight made cents in Germany, it never did here. Jones wasn't a major draw and he had a big price tag for HBO. Dariusz wouldn't have gotten any more to head here than he did to defend the belt at home. It's not like it would have sold on ppv. They could have filled a soccer stadium in Germany.

orbtastic wrote:He has a number of common opponents with Jones and has better results against the majority of them.

Name one.

davie wrote:

man wrote:he was exciting and protected at the same time.
never fighting in america was a choice that predictably
would hurt his legacy. i think both he and roy were
not super eager facing each other, though at one
point i thought dariusz really wanted it. yet by then
it was too late.

Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

no. nobody asked floyd mayweather
to fight manny in the philippines.
back then germany was not on the
boxing map and roy was p4p king.

Michalczewski vs Calzaghe would have been WAR should Joe has stepped up to LH sooner.

I like that fight as well:TU:

As I said yonks ago, the record clearly shows that Dariusz was undeniably good but what's missing is a genuine 50:50 fight against another champ or seeing off a really top notch, undefeated contender away from the German bunker. And that makes him hard to place.

Joe was not exactly a great travelling man himself until he decided that Hopkins and Jones - plus a skip load of dollars - could both be taken.

But to be fair to Joe he did go to Germany and give Veit a second smacking

Joe v Dariusz in any location would have been a top fight I reckon.

King Carlos wrote:

orbtastic wrote:He has a number of common opponents with Jones and has better results against the majority of them.

Name one.

You could probably make a case for Harmon. Jones wasn't particularly shining in that fight.

man wrote:

davie wrote:

man wrote:he was exciting and protected at the same time.
never fighting in america was a choice that predictably
would hurt his legacy. i think both he and roy were
not super eager facing each other, though at one
point i thought dariusz really wanted it. yet by then
it was too late.

Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

no. nobody asked floyd mayweather
to fight manny in the philippines.
back then germany was not on the
boxing map and roy was p4p king.

To say "never fighting in america was a choice that predictably would hurt his legacy" doesn't seem very fair to me.
Why is it that a fighter is expected to fight in America, it's not the be all and end all.
If he is expected to fight there and his legacy is judged somehow inadequate as a result of not having travelled there, then why is the same criticism not leveled at RJJ?
One of the biggest potential challenges in his division lay in Germany, why did he not travel, why was his opponent expected to?
Why does that not go as a mark against RJJ's greatness? From 1997 - 2003 the best challenge at LHW was Michalczewski and it's a challenge RJJ never accepted, if he was the p4p no1 (which he undoubtedly was in that spell) then why is he not travelling to fight the best?
No-one asked him to? Then ask why did no-one ask him to, why is it assumed the best should travel to America when they have a perfectly good set up where they are?

There are the same question marks in the division below, with Calzaghe and Otke around the exact same period.
But the difference is both men are equally criticised for not being the one to go abroad and both men have a mark against his greatness for refusing to meet the obvious opponent in that period in his back yard. These 2 were no1 and no2 for about 5 years and there is no excuse for them not meeting, as a result neither man is excused, yet you think Roy should be?

I don't think he gets a free pass for this. He does get ripped for it.
He probably would have beaten Michalczewski, but it probably would have been a tougher fight than he was used to. As people have alluded to, it was really the only fight out there at 175 for a long time.

Yet HBO continued to act as if Michalczewski did not exist. How often was his name ever even mentioned on a HBO telecast? They should have been screaming for the fight.

A lot of people wanted to see what would happen. Too bad it never did.

davie wrote:Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

davie wrote: To say "never fighting in america was a choice that predictably would hurt his legacy" doesn't seem very fair to me.
Why is it that a fighter is expected to fight in America, it's not the be all and end all.

you asked "equal" and my response is it
didn't and shouldn't. of course roy deserves
criticism and gets it, just not ... equal. because
indeed america is and was the place where you
really had to prove yourself.

man wrote:

davie wrote:Do you think not fighting him in Germany did equal damage to RJJs legacy?

davie wrote: To say "never fighting in america was a choice that predictably would hurt his legacy" doesn't seem very fair to me.
Why is it that a fighter is expected to fight in America, it's not the be all and end all.

you asked "equal" and my response is it
didn't and shouldn't. of course roy deserves
criticism and gets it, just not ... equal. because
indeed america is and was the place where you
really had to prove yourself.

Fair enough