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should fighters that have failed drugs test for steroids be allowed into the hall of Fame. For example Roy Jones Jnr, Antonio Tarver, James Toney. Vitali failed once but that was in his kick boxing days I believe.

No.

And they should be prosecuted.

Isn't that what the Germans are gonna push for??

I think a blanket exclusion would be unfair. I'm no expert on the subject of ped's and how they are obtained and used, but there should at least be some consideration of circumstances and intention. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong, but didn't James Toney test positive after using a medical product to aid his recovery from a torn muscle?

I can see why some people would want to see zero tolerance in the HOF, I just tend to come down as much as possible on the side of the fighter in issues like this.

Having said that, in the case of guys like Holyfield and Jones Jr, there seems to be a widely held belief that most, or the most significant of their achievements were accomplished with artificial enhancement. In which case I would exclude them from the HOF gladly.

But then you have the prospect of a very barren HOF in years to come.

Holyfield, Mosley, and Vargas were three of my favorite fighters but yes I think any fighter busted using PEDs should forfeit any hope of going to the HOF and I would take it a step further and retroactively strip their titles.

witherspoon wrote:I think a blanket exclusion would be unfair. I'm no expert on the subject of ped's and how they are obtained and used, but there should at least be some consideration of circumstances and intention. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong, but didn't James Toney test positive after using a medical product to aid his recovery from a torn muscle?

Every fighter who has ever tested positive for PEDs has had a medical excuse for using them. Toney used the medical excuse once and then popped hot a second time. Look at the UFC fighters who look like their carved from stone but have supposedly dangerously low levels of testosterone which allow them to get a prescription from their doctor for PEDs. Its a joke. If your taking steroids for a torn muscle then you dont need to be fighting. If you pop hot you should face the consequences.

I agree, If it has been proven that a fighter has tested positive for Performance Enhancing Drugs they should not be allowed to go into the Hall of Fame and quite frankly should be stripped of that title. It's plain and simple cheating.

I think the promoters, trainers and governing bodies are aware of what goes on. They turn a blind eye. All about the money. It's a ridiculous situation.

Holyfield has never been busted or charged with anything. You can't call someone a drug cheat when they've never even failed a drugs test.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Holyfield has never been busted or charged with anything. You can't call someone a drug cheat when they've never even failed a drugs test.

That is correct.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Holyfield has never been busted or charged with anything. You can't call someone a drug cheat when they've never even failed a drugs test.

Evan Fields is probably the most obvious steroid abuser of all of the proven or suspected steroid abuser's in the sport. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want but the guy was juicing and its plain as day.

klompton wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Holyfield has never been busted or charged with anything. You can't call someone a drug cheat when they've never even failed a drugs test.

Evan Fields is probably the most obvious steroid abuser of all of the proven or suspected steroid abuser's in the sport. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want but the guy was juicing and its plain as day.

Because of some trash tabloid article from 10 years ago? From a rag that then published a story about 'Holyfield's balls being the size of peanuts'? That's it, a man's career and achievements dishonoured? When was his day in court?

I don't see how you can say his juicing is as plain as day. In what sense? In ring performance? Physique? Something else? What are you referring to?

Tuan_Jim wrote:

klompton wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Holyfield has never been busted or charged with anything. You can't call someone a drug cheat when they've never even failed a drugs test.

Evan Fields is probably the most obvious steroid abuser of all of the proven or suspected steroid abuser's in the sport. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want but the guy was juicing and its plain as day.

Because of some trash tabloid article from 10 years ago? From a rag that then published a story about 'Holyfield's balls being the size of peanuts'? That's it, a man's career and achievements dishonoured? When was his day in court?

I don't see how you can say his juicing is as plain as day. In what sense? In ring performance? Physique? Something else? What are you referring to?

There's enough evidence for me, same date of birth, almost identical address and when they rang the phone number Holyfield picked up. His name came up in another bust too. Lance Armstrong never failed a test either and he was doped up to his eyeballs.

PED's should not only make you lose your license indefinitely, but also should be criminally prosecuted for attempted murder. Any titles, accomplishments, etc. ought to be turned over--- say, on BoxRec and other record sites, it has been revealed a man cheated due to steroids, etc. then his ENTIRE record should be deemed "no-contest" and that's the end of it. As for the HOF, if you had to cheat to get such acclaim, then you don't deserve it.

Problem with all this, though, is you can claim that anyone from the 1960's and onward could of possibly done anabolic steroids. HGH and others came in the 80's and 90's.

Interesting post. Makes you worry how many of your favourite fighters were juiced. I think what Germany are intending to do is a step in the right direction..... Is that why Wlad wants his next fight in The USA? Hmm there's a thought....

Most people who cheated will not get caught. However, those that do get caught should be punished. Not making the Hall of Fame should be one of the punishments.
He is getting an unfair advantage against opponents who didn't cheat.
To me it is sort of like when a police office see someone running a red light. Most of the time when someone does this they won't get caught. However, shouldn't the officer get the person that he sees do it? Of course.

HomicideHenry wrote: Problem with all this, though, is you can claim that anyone from the 1960's and onward could of possibly done anabolic steroids. HGH and others came in the 80's and 90's.

I'm thinking that (some) fighters from the 60's and 70's were more likely to use amphetamines, as that was also a popular drug used in baseball at the time.
Not quite the same as steroids, of course, but it does increase energy and focus.

expe wrote: There's enough evidence for me, same date of birth, almost identical address and when they rang the phone number Holyfield picked up. His name came up in another bust too. Lance Armstrong never failed a test either and he was doped up to his eyeballs.

Where is this evidence? Where?

Bob Hazelton would be a good starting point into looking at these allegations from the 1960's and 1970's.

Im sorry but when a guy gains 30 pounds of solid ripped muscle in an endurance sport in his late 20s by training with a steroid freak like Lee Haney and then develops rapid onset balding, heart problems, and muscles like his neck and traps that are beyond freakish then gets caught answering the phone under the number of an "Evan Fields" who was purchasing steroids from a lab that catered to pro athletes and defends himself by saying he was buying them for his uncle, well, I call bullshit. Mama didnt raise no fool. I know a steroid abuser when I see one and especially when all of that garbage surrounds him. Call that no evidence all you want but like someone said, Lance Armstrong never failed a test. It is and was (even more so back in the day) harder than people think to catch someone using PEDs its a lot harder if they arent being tested at all

klompton wrote:Im sorry but when a guy gains 30 pounds of solid ripped muscle in an endurance sport in his late 20s by training with a steroid freak like Lee Haney and then develops rapid onset balding, heart problems, and muscles like his neck and traps that are beyond freakish then gets caught answering the phone under the number of an "Evan Fields" who was purchasing steroids from a lab that catered to pro athletes and defends himself by saying he was buying them for his uncle, well, I call bullshit. Mama didnt raise no fool. I know a steroid abuser when I see one and especially when all of that garbage surrounds him. Call that no evidence all you want but like someone said, Lance Armstrong never failed a test. It is and was (even more so back in the day) harder than people think to catch someone using PEDs its a lot harder if they arent being tested at all

I'm with klompton on this and though it is heresy I'd contend that Frank Bruno used steroids at some time.

The lack of proof in regards to Holyfield reminds me of a quote from dirty harry.'how do you figure it was intent to rape Harry?' ' well when an adult male is chasing a woman with a butcher knife and a hard on... You figure he's not collecting for the red crosssss'
Harry didn't need to prove it in court....

klompton wrote:Im sorry but when a guy gains 30 pounds of solid ripped muscle in an endurance sport in his late 20s by training with a steroid freak like Lee Haney and then develops rapid onset balding, heart problems, and muscles like his neck and traps that are beyond freakish then gets caught answering the phone under the number of an "Evan Fields" who was purchasing steroids from a lab that catered to pro athletes and defends himself by saying he was buying them for his uncle, well, I call bullshit. Mama didnt raise no fool. I know a steroid abuser when I see one and especially when all of that garbage surrounds him. Call that no evidence all you want but like someone said, Lance Armstrong never failed a test. It is and was (even more so back in the day) harder than people think to catch someone using PEDs its a lot harder if they arent being tested at all

The problem is he never ever gained 30 pounds of solid muscle.

And to begin balding at 30, are you serious? That's evidence? Men can go rapidly bald at any time. I've witnessed friends in their 20s go bald in the space of a month or two. Are they on PEDs?

Ever seen a picture of Holyfield at 14? He's freakishly well built even then. Was he juicing in the 70s in expectation of a boxing career?

I enjoy your posts but think the evidence and reasoning here is way too flimsy.

Though it's in no way scientific I think you can determine who is using PEDs and steroids by the cut of the muscle, the definition of muscle is far more pronounced..

You have to be in complete denial to think that Evander was not on the juice.