BoxRec

what do you think? He was very good, unstoppable in his prime they say....I never saw that much of him but I get the picture..... Is top 25 over optimistic?

Where would you have him in a list only of LWWs and Welters? Top 10 surely?

magwitch wrote:what do you think? He was very good, unstoppable in his prime they say....I never saw that much of him but I get the picture..... Is top 25 over optimistic?

Where would you have him in a list only of LWWs and Welters? Top 10 surely?

A very special fighter as his record clearly demonstrates.

But sadly this thread is likely to attract a mixture of irrelevant questions about his nationality and tall poppy syndrome from the insecure minority.

top 25 over optimistic?

u trolling or what?

bash for cash wrote:

magwitch wrote:what do you think? He was very good, unstoppable in his prime they say....I never saw that much of him but I get the picture..... Is top 25 over optimistic?

Where would you have him in a list only of LWWs and Welters? Top 10 surely?

A very special fighter as his record clearly demonstrates.

But sadly this thread is likely to attract a mixture of irrelevant questions about his nationality and tall poppy syndrome from the insecure minority.

let's just go for it and try anyway mate, f*ck em!
I did think about posting it in British as it's a busier forum but I thought it would look a bit of a random question there, this can be its natural home for now.

buster007 wrote:top 25 over optimistic?

u trolling or what?

no mate not trolling. I didn't wanna look like an ignorant twit so I was hedging my bets. I'd have probably put him higher than that but this sport's over a hundred years old in its modern format and that spans a lot of fighters and in my eyes, being top 25 still makes you a very special fighter.
Also, as I confessed in my initial post, I never saw that much of him aside from a bit of Youtube facing Zab Judah and a couple of training snippets. Tbh it's more what I've read that attests to his greatness, than what I've seen.
Some guys who post here will have seen a lot more of Kostya, I'm sure.

magwitch wrote:what do you think? He was very good, unstoppable in his prime they say....I never saw that much of him but I get the picture..... Is top 25 over optimistic?

Where would you have him in a list only of LWWs and Welters? Top 10 surely?

Kostya contested something like 19 world title fights and 2 eliminators. Losing only twice, and when he sent Zab Judah off on his chicken walk in Vegas in 2001 he became the first champion to unify the light welterweight division in over 30 years. Say no more.

Kostya is the most overrated fighter of the last 20 yrs.......all those title fights and the Judah is his biggest win. Had a very good right hand but he beat nothing more than b level dudes and he got his ass handed to him by b level guys. Vince Phillips got massacred against Quartey and Ricky got KTFO twice when he fought elite guys. He about died in the Pacman fight.

Kostya's skills r a friggin myth........don't nobody tell me about his credentials as an amateur.

wow two very diverse opinions there......I did not know about the unification LAB, or that he contested that many world titles, or even whether he was fighting good opponents or average ones. Surely you have to face a couple of very good fighters in that many WT fights. I think Kostya's career was under a lot of radars where I come from, before he came to England to fight Hatton.

Prime Kostya vs. Prime Hatton, who wins that? I don't mean to take anything away from Hatton but I think Kostya was past his best and had been very inactive hadn't he?

hurricanemitch14 wrote:Kostya is the most overrated fighter of the last 20 yrs.......all those title fights and the Judah is his biggest win. Had a very good right hand but he beat nothing more than b level dudes and he got his ass handed to him by b level guys. Vince Phillips got massacred against Quartey and Ricky got KTFO twice when he fought elite guys. He about died in the Pacman fight.

Kostya's skills r a friggin myth........don't nobody tell me about his credentials as an amateur.

See post #2

magwitch wrote:wow two very diverse opinions there......I did not know about the unification LAB, or that he contested that many world titles, or even whether he was fighting good opponents or average ones. Surely you have to face a couple of very good fighters in that many WT fights. I think Kostya's career was under a lot of radars where I come from, before he came to England to fight Hatton.

Prime Kostya vs. Prime Hatton, who wins that? I don't mean to take anything away from Hatton but I think Kostya was past his best and had been very inactive hadn't he?

I, like you, didn't see a hell of a lot of kostya at the time. however ive since caught up on a bit here and there. I saw the hatton, and Judah fights live on tv.
imo he was very distracted when he took on hatton. had this not been the case I feel he gets past him, and moves onto what was supposed to be a large $, 4/5 fight contract that ended with a fight vs Oscar(if I recall correctly). but this was not the case and he was beaten by the better fighter on the day.
prime for prime I think kostya easily beats hatton.

Always a shame Kostya never took on the super stars of his time like Mosely, Oscar, Forrest (professional that is)/Trinidad/Whitaker.

Only great win for me is Zab Judah.

In all a great fighter, and I think he would have beaten some of those mentioned above, or been highly competitive. Just makes it hard to rank someone in all time ranking when They havn't fought the best of their era.

hurricanemitch14 wrote:Kostya is the most overrated fighter of the last 20 yrs.......all those title fights and the Judah is his biggest win. Had a very good right hand but he beat nothing more than b level dudes and he got his ass handed to him by b level guys. Vince Phillips got massacred against Quartey and Ricky got KTFO twice when he fought elite guys. He about died in the Pacman fight.

Kostya's skills r a friggin myth........don't nobody tell me about his credentials as an amateur.

MY F..... OATH I'LL BE TELLING YOU STARTED BOXING AMATUER AT AGE 9 record 259-11 friggin myth this bloke needed some-more AMATUER fight's so he could learn how to fight properly in the pro's 14-2-1nc 11ko's in WORLD TITTLE FIGHT'S 14-2-11KO'S AGAINST FORMER/CURRENT TIITLIEST [NOT BAD FOR A FRIGGIN MYTH] after becoming undisputed jr welterweight tittles v JUDAH, Kostya was by now nearing his 32nd birthday INJURY was starting to dictate when he could and couldn't fight only fought once in 2002/2003/2004 mainly because of a shoulder injury[eventually needed surgery] then in 2005 at NEARLY 36 YEAR'S OLD LOST TO HATTON WHO BY THE WAY WAS 38-0 AND WAS 26 GOING ON 27YEAR'S OLD IN FRONT OF 40 THOUSAND PLUS FANATICAL POM'S[and don'nt make out Hattons opponent's were all stiff's so you can justify your stupid post] and BILL MORDEY his first promoter and his second promoter Vlad Warton had something to do with him not fighting the like's of DE LA HOYA/TRINIDAD/MOSELY LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR OWN BEST INTEREST AND POOR VINCE PHILLIPS FOUGHT DRUG ADDICTION FOR YEAR'S HAD PLENTY OF TALENT [DRUG'S WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT] IMAGINE HOW GOOD HE COULD HAVE BEEN WAS A NATURALL JR WELTER ALTHOUGH HE DID FIGHT AT WELTER SO HOW YOU COULD JUDGE KOSTYA ON PHILLIPS GETTING BEAT BY QUARTEY GOES TO SHOW HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE,AS FOR MAYWEATHER 40 SOMETHING AND 0 LAST TIME I LOOKED AND WHEN HATTON FOUGHT PACMAN WAS ALREADY FIGHTING HIS OWN DRUG DEMON'S [NOT PACMAN/QUARTEY PROBLEM]HATTON PAST HIS BEST WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUB'T [WHAT A JOKE KOSTYA ONLY HAD A GOOD RIGHT HAND][ JUST SMELL THE KNOWLEDGE].

Trent wrote:Always a shame Kostya never took on the super stars of his time like Mosely, Oscar, Forrest (professional that is)/Trinidad/Whitaker.

Only great win for me is Zab Judah.

In all a great fighter, and I think he would have beaten some of those mentioned above, or been highly competitive. Just makes it hard to rank someone in all time ranking when They havn't fought the best of their era.

Sharmba Mitchell was a very good fighter mate. First fight he had excuses(leg)but not the 2nd time.

Top 5 at 140 Pounds.

No where near top 25 alltime. And that's not being harsh. It's just there are so many great fighter's on an alltime list that to make the top 100 you need to be a special fighter.

DA GOOSE wrote:

Trent wrote:Always a shame Kostya never took on the super stars of his time like Mosely, Oscar, Forrest (professional that is)/Trinidad/Whitaker.

Only great win for me is Zab Judah.

In all a great fighter, and I think he would have beaten some of those mentioned above, or been highly competitive. Just makes it hard to rank someone in all time ranking when They havn't fought the best of their era.

Sharmba Mitchell was a very good fighter mate. First fight he had excuses(leg)but not the 2nd time.

Yeah Sharmba was a top win. But their first fight to me was competitive (until the injury) No doubt about the second fight!!! I'd rank his win over Sharmba as being a notch below the win over Judah. Kostya fought the best Judah in his prime, and handled him with ease.

I'm not saying Kostya wasn't a good fighter. I think he is still a great fighter with a decent resume. Just saying that without those top names on a record, i feel it's always hard to include them in a top 25 P4P discussion.

I think people underestimate those he beat, because he beat them quite easily. Bergman, Pindea, Chavez, Mitchell, Tackie, Rodriguez and Judah were all top line fighters and KT handled them with ease. I put him top 10 Jnr Welters. It is a great pity a few of those other fights didnt come off with ODH etc but like many match ups we want to see it often doesnt happen, or if it does the fighters are way past their prime.

chavez was 103 yrs old......all his wins and his losses came against b-level guys. he had very good right hand and was sid champ but he didnt beat anybody to put him anywhere near an atg list

amwsnw wrote:I think people underestimate those he beat, because he beat them quite easily. Bergman, Pindea, Chavez, Mitchell, Tackie, Rodriguez and Judah were all top line fighters and KT handled them with ease. I put him top 10 Jnr Welters. It is a great pity a few of those other fights didnt come off with ODH etc but like many match ups we want to see it often doesnt happen, or if it does the fighters are way past their prime.

I think when you have to rate a fighter you must first look at their best win and their worst loss
and keep in mind their prime years and the prime years of their opponents.
Kostya's best win was argueably Judah. Do I think Zab was a top ten ATG 140 pounder..... not even close. Vince Phillips who absolutely mugged Kostya would not get into my top 100 ATG
140 pounders. I am dismissing the loss to Hatton because Kostya was in no way prime.
I am dismissing the win over Chavez, He was just a shell of his prime.
The talk of the elite avoiding Kostya is crap. The loss to Phillips put an end to any negotiations
in the pipeline. By the time Kostya had re established himself on the world scene all the action was at 147.
Unifying 140 was a great achievement, and he must be given credit for that.
A move to 147 was the obvious move but he never did it. The money that would have been available would far out weigh any at 140, but the risks were far higher.
As history shows Money was always Kostya's prime motivation so the decision to remain at 140
has always puzzled me.

amwsnw wrote:I think people underestimate those he beat, because he beat them quite easily. Bergman, Pindea, Chavez, Mitchell, Tackie, Rodriguez and Judah were all top line fighters and KT handled them with ease. I put him top 10 Jnr Welters. It is a great pity a few of those other fights didnt come off with ODH etc but like many match ups we want to see it often doesnt happen, or if it does the fighters are way past their prime.

Boxing is an unusual sport when it comes to assessing who you beat. The bigger the beating you hand them the less credit you get fro doing it because once you have beaten them they were just "crap."

bash for cash wrote:

amwsnw wrote:I think people underestimate those he beat, because he beat them quite easily. Bergman, Pindea, Chavez, Mitchell, Tackie, Rodriguez and Judah were all top line fighters and KT handled them with ease. I put him top 10 Jnr Welters. It is a great pity a few of those other fights didnt come off with ODH etc but like many match ups we want to see it often doesnt happen, or if it does the fighters are way past their prime.

Boxing is an unusual sport when it comes to assessing who you beat. The bigger the beating you hand them the less credit you get fro doing it because once you have beaten them they were just "crap."

interesting perspective lol.

magwitch wrote:wow two very diverse opinions there......I did not know about the unification LAB, or that he contested that many world titles, or even whether he was fighting good opponents or average ones. Surely you have to face a couple of very good fighters in that many WT fights. I think Kostya's career was under a lot of radars where I come from, before he came to England to fight Hatton.

Prime Kostya vs. Prime Hatton, who wins that? I don't mean to take anything away from Hatton but I think Kostya was past his best and had been very inactive hadn't he?

If you know so little about the man, why start a thread suggesting he is top 25 ATG?

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote:wow two very diverse opinions there......I did not know about the unification LAB, or that he contested that many world titles, or even whether he was fighting good opponents or average ones. Surely you have to face a couple of very good fighters in that many WT fights. I think Kostya's career was under a lot of radars where I come from, before he came to England to fight Hatton.

Prime Kostya vs. Prime Hatton, who wins that? I don't mean to take anything away from Hatton but I think Kostya was past his best and had been very inactive hadn't he?

If you know so little about the man, why start a thread suggesting he is top 25 ATG?

I can read. Does that answer your question?

in hindsight top 25 is sensationally high, but I often heard about him being an unbeatable champion. Didn't sound like he had many chinks, but he possessed a pretty big arsenal of his own.

magwitch wrote:in hindsight top 25 is sensationally high, but I often heard about him being an unbeatable champion. Didn't sound like he had many chinks, but he possessed a pretty big arsenal of his own.

Why don't you watch his fights and decide where you rank him? That's what I meant. I wouldn't try to rank someone if never seen or extensively read about.

He's not even close to top 100 ATG although he was an excellent fighter.

magwitch wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote:wow two very diverse opinions there......I did not know about the unification LAB, or that he contested that many world titles, or even whether he was fighting good opponents or average ones. Surely you have to face a couple of very good fighters in that many WT fights. I think Kostya's career was under a lot of radars where I come from, before he came to England to fight Hatton.

Prime Kostya vs. Prime Hatton, who wins that? I don't mean to take anything away from Hatton but I think Kostya was past his best and had been very inactive hadn't he?

If you know so little about the man, why start a thread suggesting he is top 25 ATG?

I can read. Does that answer your question?

No.