BoxRec

Who wins tonight guys?

I keep switching, I think Saunders but I've just watched the weigh in and face off and Eubank is a big bigger and holding his composure well; he may have gears he's not needed to show in a fight just yet.

I think Eubank,although i was going to wait until the poll ran out on Monday to vote

I think there's going to be a lot of tweets and posts on here tonight and tomorrow saying holy sh1t i didn't realise Eubank was that good. On the other hand he might get schooled for 12 rounds lol.

watching saunders vs ryder and thinking really should be saunders win. he shows great footwork , solid chin and grit.

For me, I'm going Saunders. I said it when this fight was first discussed, and I'm sticking with it. This is a BIG step up for Eubank and he could find himself sorely outmatched tonight...

I would ask each of you to look at the professional record of young Chris... Consider the list of opponents that he has faced and their morbid lack of success in the sport.

For me, all the evidence points to a conclusive Saunders victory. And I would make a number of statements to back this up.

1. Eubank has been a professional for three years and has had eighteen fights.
And to put that in to context, the likes of Carl Frampton has only had nineteen fights and he's a World Champion and has challenged for & defended a European Title. When comparing that to young Chris, what has he done? What impact has he made in the sport?

2. Eubank has fought only had a single scheduled 12 round fight.
The fact is that he's never went past eight rounds. He is venturing in to the unknwn tonight.

3. Eubank has never beat a British Champion.
Despite the moderate number of fights that he has had, none of his opponents have ever held the Lonsdale Belt.
Now compare that to Saunders who has won the British, Commonwealth & European Titles.

4. Who exactly has Chris faced?
Are his best opponents Terry Carruthers & Bradley Pryce?
Now compare that to the opponents that Saunders has faced and defeated:
John Ryder, Jarrod Fletcher & Nick Blackwell who are each good fighters, and to a lesser degree opponents like Matthew Hall, Tony Hill & Gary O'Sullivan are certainly noteworthy as well. He's show that he can consistently go twelve rounds, no problem.

5. The rankings
Eubank is currently ranked 53rd in the world - consider that for a moment, he's not even in the top 50.
Saunders is ranked 14th - just a few places outside the top ten in the World.
Even the rankings tell you that it's a bad mismatch.

When you consider all of the evidence thus far, I don't see how you can predict a Eubank victory.
He's going in against the best young Middleweight on these islands, can I can't help but think that he could've fought some of the above guys to bring his level up a bit before facing Saunders.

I hope that this is a close contest, but I do think that there's a distinct possibility that Eubank just isn't prepared for Saunders and that he could be sorely outmatched here.

Crease wrote:For me, I'm going Saunders. I said it when this fight was first discussed, and I'm sticking with it. This is a BIG step up for Eubank and he could find himself sorely outmatched tonight...

I would ask each of you to look at the professional record of young Chris... Consider the list of opponents that he has faced and their morbid lack of success in the sport.

For me, all the evidence points to a conclusive Saunders victory. And I would make a number of statements to back this up.

1. Eubank has been a professional for three years and has had eighteen fights.
And to put that in to context, the likes of Carl Frampton has only had nineteen fights and he's a World Champion and has challenged for & defended a European Title. When comparing that to young Chris, what has he done? What impact has he made in the sport?

2. Eubank has fought only had a single scheduled 12 round fight.
The fact is that he's never went past eight rounds. He is venturing in to the unknwn tonight.

3. Eubank has never beat a British Champion.
Despite the moderate number of fights that he has had, none of his opponents have ever held the Lonsdale Belt.
Now compare that to Saunders who has won the British, Commonwealth & European Titles.

4. Who exactly has Chris faced?
Are his best opponents Terry Carruthers & Bradley Pryce?
Now compare that to the opponents that Saunders has faced and defeated:
John Ryder, Jarrod Fletcher & Nick Blackwell who are each good fighters, and to a lesser degree opponents like Matthew Hall, Tony Hill & Gary O'Sullivan are certainly noteworthy as well. He's show that he can consistently go twelve rounds, no problem.

5. The rankings
Eubank is currently ranked 53rd in the world - consider that for a moment, he's not even in the top 50.
Saunders is ranked 14th - just a few places outside the top ten in the World.
Even the rankings tell you that it's a bad mismatch.

When you consider all of the evidence thus far, I don't see how you can predict a Eubank victory.
He's going in against the best young Middleweight on these islands, can I can't help but think that he could've fought some of the above guys to bring his level up a bit before facing Saunders.

I hope that this is a close contest, but I do think that there's a distinct possibility that Eubank just isn't prepared for Saunders and that he could be sorely outmatched here.

Eubank will stop Saunders.

Great post.

Paul Butler's 10 months older than Eubank Jr and turned pro 11 months earlier. He's had a fight less, but he's been British and Commonwealth champion, won 3 international titles, stepped up a weight to win a world title and if it wasn't for Tete breaking his hand, could quite well have been a 2 weight world champion. Callum Smith turned pro a year after Eubank Jr and he's just won a world title eliminator.

He's never been past 8 rounds and I'm not sure how far he's been in sparring, everything we've seen is him doing 3-4 rounds at a decent pace, then jumping out, 12 rounds is a long, long time, especially against a fighter like Saunders who's happy to fight at a fast pace.

Eubank's best opponents are Carruthers and Pryce, both ran him close, ignoring Steve Gray's scorecard for the Pryce fight and Carruthers had a decent shout for a draw.

I'd say 53rd is quite generous to Eubank Jr based on his record, especially when you consider boxrec have him above Nick Blackwell, but he's 18 unbeaten and he's fought a few with decent, albeit very padded records, which can skew the ranking points. If his name wasn't Eubank, the fight wouldn't be sanctioned IMO.

lefty wrote:

Crease wrote:For me, I'm going Saunders. I said it when this fight was first discussed, and I'm sticking with it. This is a BIG step up for Eubank and he could find himself sorely outmatched tonight...

I would ask each of you to look at the professional record of young Chris... Consider the list of opponents that he has faced and their morbid lack of success in the sport.

For me, all the evidence points to a conclusive Saunders victory. And I would make a number of statements to back this up.

1. Eubank has been a professional for three years and has had eighteen fights.
And to put that in to context, the likes of Carl Frampton has only had nineteen fights and he's a World Champion and has challenged for & defended a European Title. When comparing that to young Chris, what has he done? What impact has he made in the sport?

2. Eubank has fought only had a single scheduled 12 round fight.
The fact is that he's never went past eight rounds. He is venturing in to the unknwn tonight.

3. Eubank has never beat a British Champion.
Despite the moderate number of fights that he has had, none of his opponents have ever held the Lonsdale Belt.
Now compare that to Saunders who has won the British, Commonwealth & European Titles.

4. Who exactly has Chris faced?
Are his best opponents Terry Carruthers & Bradley Pryce?
Now compare that to the opponents that Saunders has faced and defeated:
John Ryder, Jarrod Fletcher & Nick Blackwell who are each good fighters, and to a lesser degree opponents like Matthew Hall, Tony Hill & Gary O'Sullivan are certainly noteworthy as well. He's show that he can consistently go twelve rounds, no problem.

5. The rankings
Eubank is currently ranked 53rd in the world - consider that for a moment, he's not even in the top 50.
Saunders is ranked 14th - just a few places outside the top ten in the World.
Even the rankings tell you that it's a bad mismatch.

When you consider all of the evidence thus far, I don't see how you can predict a Eubank victory.
He's going in against the best young Middleweight on these islands, can I can't help but think that he could've fought some of the above guys to bring his level up a bit before facing Saunders.

I hope that this is a close contest, but I do think that there's a distinct possibility that Eubank just isn't prepared for Saunders and that he could be sorely outmatched here.

Eubank will stop Saunders.

Based on what? Saunders chin is rock solid and Eubank Jr's no puncher. He's not going to grind him down because his workrate's poor. I might be wrong, but I see little other than Saunders outclassing Eubank Jr and I hope that happens, serious beatdown and Eubank Jr quitting on his stool, him and his Dad shut up for good.

lefty wrote:Eubank will stop Saunders.

I doubt it. As I've already said, I would love to see a close & competitive fight that goes all 12 rounds...

expe wrote:Paul Butler's 10 months older than Eubank Jr and turned pro 11 months earlier. He's had a fight less, but he's been British and Commonwealth champion, won 3 international titles, stepped up a weight to win a world title and if it wasn't for Tete breaking his hand, could quite well have been a 2 weight world champion.

Thanks for the info on Paul Butler, I haven't been following his career, really. But he won a World Title in his 16th fight.

expe wrote:Callum Smith turned pro a year after Eubank Jr and he's just won a world title eliminator.

Very true. And it just reinforces the fact that young Chris has been hanging around too long in the lower rankings fighting sub-standard opponents...

expe wrote:Based on what? Saunders chin is rock solid and Eubank Jr's no puncher. He's not going to grind him down because his workrate's poor. I might be wrong, but I see little other than Saunders outclassing Eubank Jr and I hope that happens, serious beatdown and Eubank Jr quitting on his stool, him and his Dad shut up for good.

If young Chris is to win tonight, he's going to have to show us all something we have never seen before. I think that we can all agree on that.

expe wrote:Great post.

Paul Butler's 10 months older than Eubank Jr and turned pro 11 months earlier. He's had a fight less, but he's been British and Commonwealth champion, won 3 international titles, stepped up a weight to win a world title and if it wasn't for Tete breaking his hand, could quite well have been a 2 weight world champion. Callum Smith turned pro a year after Eubank Jr and he's just won a world title eliminator.

He's never been past 8 rounds and I'm not sure how far he's been in sparring, everything we've seen is him doing 3-4 rounds at a decent pace, then jumping out, 12 rounds is a long, long time, especially against a fighter like Saunders who's happy to fight at a fast pace.

Eubank's best opponents are Carruthers and Pryce, both ran him close, ignoring Steve Gray's scorecard for the Pryce fight and Carruthers had a decent shout for a draw.

I'd say 53rd is quite generous to Eubank Jr based on his record, especially when you consider boxrec have him above Nick Blackwell, but he's 18 unbeaten and he's fought a few with decent, albeit very padded records, which can skew the ranking points. If his name wasn't Eubank, the fight wouldn't be sanctioned IMO.

To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

Crease wrote:

lefty wrote:Eubank will stop Saunders.

I doubt it. As I've already said, I would love to see a close & competitive fight that goes all 12 rounds...

We'll see

lefty wrote:

expe wrote:Great post.

Paul Butler's 10 months older than Eubank Jr and turned pro 11 months earlier. He's had a fight less, but he's been British and Commonwealth champion, won 3 international titles, stepped up a weight to win a world title and if it wasn't for Tete breaking his hand, could quite well have been a 2 weight world champion. Callum Smith turned pro a year after Eubank Jr and he's just won a world title eliminator.

He's never been past 8 rounds and I'm not sure how far he's been in sparring, everything we've seen is him doing 3-4 rounds at a decent pace, then jumping out, 12 rounds is a long, long time, especially against a fighter like Saunders who's happy to fight at a fast pace.

Eubank's best opponents are Carruthers and Pryce, both ran him close, ignoring Steve Gray's scorecard for the Pryce fight and Carruthers had a decent shout for a draw.

I'd say 53rd is quite generous to Eubank Jr based on his record, especially when you consider boxrec have him above Nick Blackwell, but he's 18 unbeaten and he's fought a few with decent, albeit very padded records, which can skew the ranking points. If his name wasn't Eubank, the fight wouldn't be sanctioned IMO.

To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

Butler won an ABA title, he wasn't a top amateur or anything, didn't go to any major tournaments as far as I know of. Even Frampton wasn't a top amateur on the level of some you see turning pro, he won a couple of Irish titles and a silver at the EUs. Neither were sent off to America to learn their trade either, or had someone like Eubank Sr behind them.

expe wrote:

lefty wrote:

expe wrote:Great post.

Paul Butler's 10 months older than Eubank Jr and turned pro 11 months earlier. He's had a fight less, but he's been British and Commonwealth champion, won 3 international titles, stepped up a weight to win a world title and if it wasn't for Tete breaking his hand, could quite well have been a 2 weight world champion. Callum Smith turned pro a year after Eubank Jr and he's just won a world title eliminator.

He's never been past 8 rounds and I'm not sure how far he's been in sparring, everything we've seen is him doing 3-4 rounds at a decent pace, then jumping out, 12 rounds is a long, long time, especially against a fighter like Saunders who's happy to fight at a fast pace.

Eubank's best opponents are Carruthers and Pryce, both ran him close, ignoring Steve Gray's scorecard for the Pryce fight and Carruthers had a decent shout for a draw.

I'd say 53rd is quite generous to Eubank Jr based on his record, especially when you consider boxrec have him above Nick Blackwell, but he's 18 unbeaten and he's fought a few with decent, albeit very padded records, which can skew the ranking points. If his name wasn't Eubank, the fight wouldn't be sanctioned IMO.

To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

Butler won an ABA title, he wasn't a top amateur or anything, didn't go to any major tournaments as far as I know of. Even Frampton wasn't a top amateur on the level of some you see turning pro, he won a couple of Irish titles and a silver at the EUs. Neither were sent off to America to learn their trade either, or had someone like Eubank Sr behind them.

They were still national champions though. That's still a pretty high level.

lefty wrote:To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

It's debatable whether this is a reason at all. The amateur game is very different from the professional ranks, as anyone will tell you. And not all successful amateurs have a good pro career (Audley Harrison). And if you look at the likes of Carl Froch - you could say that his style suits the professional game more than the amateur game.

It's a difficult thing to judge when discussing boxers and how much they benefit/didn't benefit from their amateur days...

lefty wrote:

expe wrote:

lefty wrote:To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

Butler won an ABA title, he wasn't a top amateur or anything, didn't go to any major tournaments as far as I know of. Even Frampton wasn't a top amateur on the level of some you see turning pro, he won a couple of Irish titles and a silver at the EUs. Neither were sent off to America to learn their trade either, or had someone like Eubank Sr behind them.

They were still national champions though. That's still a pretty high level.

Plenty win national titles and go on to do nothing, if you look back at the list of ABA title winners, you're not looking at a list of future world champions.

Crease wrote:

lefty wrote:To be fair though, both Butler and Frampton were fairly high level amateurs. Eubank jnr didnt have much of an amateur career at all and thus has been learning as he's been going along basically.

It's debatable whether this is a reason at all. The amateur game is very different from the professional ranks, as anyone will tell you. And not all successful amateurs have a good pro career (Audley Harrison). And if you look at the likes of Carl Froch - you could say that his style suits the professional game more than the amateur game.

It's a difficult thing to judge when discussing boxers and how much they benefit/didn't benefit from their amateur days...

Froch was also a 2 time national champion though and a world amateur championships bronze medallist.

expe wrote:

lefty wrote:

expe wrote: Butler won an ABA title, he wasn't a top amateur or anything, didn't go to any major tournaments as far as I know of. Even Frampton wasn't a top amateur on the level of some you see turning pro, he won a couple of Irish titles and a silver at the EUs. Neither were sent off to America to learn their trade either, or had someone like Eubank Sr behind them.

They were still national champions though. That's still a pretty high level.

Plenty win national titles and go on to do nothing, if you look back at the list of ABA title winners, you're not looking at a list of future world champions.

I see where you're coming from but I still think boxing from 12 years old or even younger in some cases sets you up better than taking up the sport later on when it comes to the pro's. That's why having a decent amateur background is normally somewhat beneficial.

Success as an amateur boxer is fairly indicative of a decent grounding and ability to box competitively in front of a crowd. I'd say that generally a good amateur has put in time and effort and shown commitment to the sport, the ingredients are there to have a good pro career though amateur success does not guarantee pro success.

palooka wrote:Success as an amateur boxer is fairly indicative of a decent grounding and ability to box competitively in front of a crowd. I'd say that generally a good amateur has put in time and effort and shown commitment to the sport, the ingredients are there to have a good pro career though amateur success does not guarantee pro success.

Lets be honest- how many fighters that have gone on to be either national champions as a pro or world champions and elite level fighters have had no amateur background whatsoever.

I was amazed when I tried to box how difficult it was. I began to read the Boxing News and was further amazed that people my age (15/16) had boxed 50 or 60 times and the top lads my age (Peter Richardson, Allan Hall, Shaun Gray) had phenomenal records.

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

Sklar wrote:expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

How many world champions have we had (I mean even just belt holders of the 4 main org bodies) that have had no real amateur background whatsoever though? I cant imagine there's any!