BoxRec

Despite possessing by far the better skillset, BJS allowed Eubank back into their fight from round 7 onwards by simply lacking the stamina to keep boxing at range - much of the second half of the fight consisted of him smothering Eubank up close because he lacked the strength to keep moving and box and range. This made it much closer than it should have been, and at the end of the fight BJS was breathing harder than a phone stalker while Eubank looked able to fight another round or two.

Does anyone else agree that BJS appears to have a stamina problem? That wasn't the first fight he's shown this issue in - it looks to me like something he will need to fix before he fights at world level, because it would be a shame for a fighter with his level of skill to lose his title challenge on stamina alone.

I honestly think he just underestimated CEJ and thought it would be a walk in the park against in his words a british level opponent. CEJ surprised a few people (myself included) in just how good he is; a very close fight and had he listened to RD he would have won it IMHO.

Thought he struggled in the final round or two against Pryce, Blackwell, Hall, Ryder and now Eubank. It's clear that stamina has been a long running issue that needs to be sorted but it's been that case for a while and nothing seems to be getting done about it.

Most boxers have some sort of weakness, if it wasn't his stamina maybe he would have a weak chin, which he hasn't

To be fair BJS probably wasted a lot of energy in the build up putting pressure on himself

Lets give Eubank credit for his pressure. I think it was a case of skillwise Eubank had what it took to apply pressure and get his punches off. He was excellent at evading punches on the way in. Defensively I was quite impressed with Eubank

He let himself get dragged into the sort of fight he shouldn't have been in, but I'm not sure whether that was down to stamina or him letting things slip mentally. There is a bit of a problem with stamina there, some of it down to pacing, he goes out too hard early on and some may be an issue with fitness. He faded badly against Blackwell, again against Ryder and against Eubank, but less and less each time, so he seems to be getting there. A lot of fighters start to fade 7-8 rounds in, take a round or two off, second wind kicks in and they get through to the end of the fight without many problems, I haven't seen Saunders do that yet, hopefully it comes with experience. Worth remembering as well that in the past he hasn't dieted or trained the way he should be doing, corners were cut at times, he did things properly for this fight, maybe even overtrained a bit, and it showed, he looked in great shape and he didn't fade as badly in the past, but one twelve week camp won't completely transform his fitness, he needs to train like that for every fight and the stamina problem should disappear.

expe wrote:He let himself get dragged into the sort of fight he shouldn't have been in, but I'm not sure whether that was down to stamina or him letting things slip mentally. There is a bit of a problem with stamina there, some of it down to pacing, he goes out too hard early on and some may be an issue with fitness. He faded badly against Blackwell, again against Ryder and against Eubank, but less and less each time, so he seems to be getting there. A lot of fighters start to fade 7-8 rounds in, take a round or two off, second wind kicks in and they get through to the end of the fight without many problems, I haven't seen Saunders do that yet, hopefully it comes with experience. Worth remembering as well that in the past he hasn't dieted or trained the way he should be doing, corners were cut at times, he did things properly for this fight, maybe even overtrained a bit, and it showed, he looked in great shape and he didn't fade as badly in the past, but one twelve week camp won't completely transform his fitness, he needs to train like that for every fight and the stamina problem should disappear.

He also needs to watch his out of camp training and approach to diet etc when he isnt fighting as this is going to have an impact. Like many fighters he needs to decide on what he wants out of the game and commit to it. I think overall though the main issue that may stop him succeeding at top level is a lack of power. He doesnt seem to be hurting his opponents and like marathons there are only so many 12 round fights in the tank.

Agree BJS has some stamina issues to sort out. The most worrying thing imo is he's often dominated the early stages of his fights, but then starts to gas & the opponent is allowed back into the fight. He's getting away with it for now, but if he ends up in a 12 rounder which is tough from the start (like the Korolev fight could well be), he may struggle so much down the stretch that he ends up getting stopped.

I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Korobov or Lee (probably Korobov.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

Boxerbeetle wrote:Agree BJS has some stamina issues to sort out. The most worrying thing imo is he's often dominated the early stages of his fights, but then starts to gas & the opponent is allowed back into the fight. He's getting away with it for now, but if he ends up in a 12 rounder which is tough from the start (like the Korolev fight could well be), he may struggle so much down the stretch that he ends up getting stopped.

Brings me back to a point Peter McDonagh mentioned in an iFL interview on Saturday, he wins the early rounds too big. Instead of just edging them and leaving something in the tank for later in the fight, he goes all out to dominate and outbox the opponent, but at the level he's fighting at, it's difficult to keep that up for 12 rounds. Being honest though, that worries me less than the underlying issue, because it's easier to rectify.

jameswilson wrote:I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Kovalev or Lee (probably Kovalev.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

He was on the piss last night, but if he's fighting in less than 3 months, you'd expect him to be back in the gym pretty quickly, then off to Marbella where's there's no distractions, especially in winter. By his next fight, he'll have spent most of the 6 months previously training, with large parts of it away from home. That should hopefully continue to build his fitness levels, combined with pacing himself a bit better they should be able to get is sorted.

jameswilson wrote:I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Kovalev or Lee (probably Kovalev.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

Think you mean Koborov James not Kovalev

ShadrachSimmo wrote:

jameswilson wrote:I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Kovalev or Lee (probably Kovalev.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

Think you mean Koborov James not Kovalev

What a plonker.

jameswilson wrote:

ShadrachSimmo wrote:

jameswilson wrote:I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Kovalev or Lee (probably Kovalev.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

Think you mean Koborov James not Kovalev

What a plonker.

both begin with K with 7 letters and end in V it's easy done.

The irony is it's not Koborov either... it's Korobov

dbflex wrote:The irony is it's not Koborov either... it's Korobov

FFS, just realised I called him Koralev, I was even further away than anyone else

expe wrote:

jameswilson wrote:I think that fight will stand Saunders in good stead for Kovalev or Lee (probably Kovalev.) Him and his team now know for sure his stamina is a slight issue and they can hopefully go away and have another good Marbella camp. Also you'd hope that with a WT fight on the horizon he won't blow up too much between fights.

He was on the piss last night, but if he's fighting in less than 3 months, you'd expect him to be back in the gym pretty quickly, then off to Marbella where's there's no distractions, especially in winter. By his next fight, he'll have spent most of the 6 months previously training, with large parts of it away from home. That should hopefully continue to build his fitness levels, combined with pacing himself a bit better they should be able to get is sorted.

He isnt a big middleweight. If he gets leaned on and wrestled by naturally bigger and stronger middleweights then he is going to fatigue and struggle down the stretch.

Was anyone else's heart in their mouth when at one decision each the MC announced "Judge Terry O'Connor scores the bout......" Because mine certainly was
fck me. May as well just reach for a b*stard coin. A double headed coin. BJS was a whisker away from not being the champion there..........and to be perfectly honest, he wasn't a milion miles away from being KO'd - either man could have walked on to one late on, there were some huge shots thrown by both men that, had they landed, could have been decisive.

magwitch wrote:Was anyone else's heart in their mouth when at one decision each the MC announced "Judge Terry O'Connor scores the bout......" Because mine certainly was
fck me. May as well just reach for a b*stard coin. A double headed coin. BJS was a whisker away from not being the champion there..........and to be perfectly honest, he wasn't a milion miles away from being KO'd - either man could have walked on to one late on, there were some huge shots thrown by both men that, had they landed, could have been decisive.

Definitely agree about Terry O'Connor, I was dreading what score would be read out as soon as I heard his name called out...Don't agree with BJS being even remotely close to being ko'd though - Eubank landed flush numerous times in the later rounds & Saunders barely wobbled.

I think his stamina isn't an issue. If you are fighting a much larger man you are going to get tired simple as that. I think his speed and footwork prevented Eubank from getting into any sort of rhythm for the first 6 rounds but keeping a middleweight with the size and strength of Eubank off you is inevitably going to take its toll.
I thought BJS boxed excellently.

Broomhall wrote:

expe wrote:He let himself get dragged into the sort of fight he shouldn't have been in, but I'm not sure whether that was down to stamina or him letting things slip mentally. There is a bit of a problem with stamina there, some of it down to pacing, he goes out too hard early on and some may be an issue with fitness. He faded badly against Blackwell, again against Ryder and against Eubank, but less and less each time, so he seems to be getting there. A lot of fighters start to fade 7-8 rounds in, take a round or two off, second wind kicks in and they get through to the end of the fight without many problems, I haven't seen Saunders do that yet, hopefully it comes with experience. Worth remembering as well that in the past he hasn't dieted or trained the way he should be doing, corners were cut at times, he did things properly for this fight, maybe even overtrained a bit, and it showed, he looked in great shape and he didn't fade as badly in the past, but one twelve week camp won't completely transform his fitness, he needs to train like that for every fight and the stamina problem should disappear.

He also needs to watch his out of camp training and approach to diet etc when he isnt fighting as this is going to have an impact. Like many fighters he needs to decide on what he wants out of the game and commit to it. I think overall though the main issue that may stop him succeeding at top level is a lack of power. He doesnt seem to be hurting his opponents and like marathons there are only so many 12 round fights in the tank.

You were saying the other day how it's normal for a lot of boxers to put on a lot of weight when they're not fighting.

This is something he'll have to live with. Lots of people will be quick on the draw to say he should do this, or should do that. Truth is, he's a terrific boxer whose natural shortcomings i.e. lack of power and strength (relative to the level competition he's now at, not gen pop) are what they are. Any effort to significantly increase strength and power is likely to be to the detriment of his primary existing plus, his fluid skill-set.

He's now going to be competing against the best of the best, including physiological outliers who will keep coming all fight long forcing Billy to work for a solid 36 minutes. Because he'll always be over-matched physically (at this level) it highly unlikely he'll be able to force stoppages. Trying to get even fitter than he is, certainly to any significant degree, will likely be counterproductive as it will cause him to get weaker than he already is and so just exacerbate the existing issues that are giving the impression his stamina is poor.

Short of taking PEDs, which would facilitate him partially negating the weaknesses without hampering his skills too much - he'd recover quicker from bouts of training, so could do more of it, I foresee the pattern continuing with BJS building early skill-driven leads before fading down the stretch as the superior physicality of his opponents takes it's toll.

seanilius wrote:I think his stamina isn't an issue. If you are fighting a much larger man you are going to get tired simple as that. I think his speed and footwork prevented Eubank from getting into any sort of rhythm for the first 6 rounds but keeping a middleweight with the size and strength of Eubank off you is inevitably going to take its toll.
I thought BJS boxed excellently.

Good post.

This has always been the case with Billy, as Boxing Prospect said. He loses too much weight in camp for me and that's his core problem.

DazDiCanio wrote:This has always been the case with Billy, as Boxing Prospect said. He loses too much weight in camp for me and that's his core problem.

How much does he actually balloon up, does anyone know?