BoxRec

Everyone pretty much agree's that the 70's was the best decade or at least one of
the best decades in heavyweight history.
With that in mind who would you rate as the top 10 or 20 of this decade?

The top four write themselves IMHO.

1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Larry Holmes
4) Joe Frazier

Frazier is the fly in the soup, as he beat Ali in the only fight that really mattered between the two of them & many argue that he was past his best when he fought Foreman, but I'm not going into that as they're is a meandering thread about that very subject.

I also have Foreman above Holmes purely on a 70s basis, as Holmes did the majority of his prominent work in the 80s.

I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

Broomhall wrote:I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

And I do think he could of also. I would not want to place a large wager.But Holmes stands a chance
against any man in history.

Just to give things a little perspective.These are the annual Ring ratings for each
year of the 70's.

1970
Joe Frazier, Champion
Muhammad Ali
George Foreman
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry
Mac Foster
Henry Cooper
George Chuvalo
Sonny Liston
Jose Ibar Urtain
Jose Luis Garcia

1971
Joe Frazier, Champion
Muhammad Ali
Jerry Quarry
George Foreman
Oscar Bonavena
Mac Foster
Jimmy Ellis
Floyd Patterson
Jose Luis Garcia
Jack Bodell
Joe Bugner

1972
Joe Frazier, Champion
Muhammad Ali
George Foreman
Jimmy Ellis
Ron Lyle
Floyd Patterson
Ernie Terrell
Jose Roman
Joe Bugner
Ken Norton
Jose Luis Garcia

1973
George Foreman, Champion
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
Ken Norton
Jerry Quarry
Ron Lyle
Earnie Shavers
Oscar Bonavena
Joe Bugner
Jimmy Ellis
Chuck Wepner

1974
Muhammad Ali, Champion
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Ron Lyle
Oscar Bonavena
Joe Bugner
Ken Norton
Jerry Quarry
Chuck Wepner
Henry Clark
Larry Middleton

1975
Heavyweights
Muhammad Ali, Champion
Ken Norton
Jimmy Young
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Ron Lyle
Earnie Shavers
Duane Bobick
Joe Bugner
Chuck Wepner
Randy Neumann

1976
Muhammad Ali, Champion
George Foreman
Ken Norton
Jimmy Young
Duane Bobick
Ron Lyle
Larry Holmes
Howard Smith
Johnny Boudreaux
Stan Ward
Joe Bugner

1977
Muhammad Ali, Champion
Ken Norton
Jimmy Young
Larry Holmes
Ron Lyle
Duane Bobick
Earnie Shavers
Kallie Knoetze
Alfredo Evangelista
Leon Spinks
Gerrie Coetzee

1978
Muhammad Ali, Champion
Larry Holmes
Ken Norton
Leon Spinks
Ron Lyle
Jimmy Young
Kallie Knoetze
Alfredo Evangelista
Gerrie Coetzee
Ossie Ocasio
Domingo D'Elia

1979
Title Vacant
Larry Holmes
John Tate
Gerrie Coetzee
Mike Weaver
Earnie Shavers
Leroy Jones
Lorenzo Zanon
Alfredo Evangelista
Gerry Cooney
Scott LeDoux

Syntax Error wrote: 1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Larry Holmes

I can't argue with that.
Just taking the 1973 'Ring' ratings (because I want to) - Ali beat every boxer on that list.

If we average out the Ring ratings for these years
We come up with the following.

1.Ali
2.Foreman
3.Frazier\
4.Norton
5.Lyle
6.Holmes
7.Quarry
8Bonevena
TIE.9.Bobick
TIE 9.Bugner
11.Shavers
TIE 12.Young
TIE 12Ellis
14.Coetzee
15.Foster
TIE 16.Patterson
TIE 16.Evangelista
TIE 16.Spinks
TIE 19.Knoetzee
TIE 19.Tate
21.Weaver
22Wepner
TIE 23.Cooper
Tie 23.Garcia
Tie 23.Jones
Tie 26.Chuvalo
TIE 26.Roman
TIE 26.Smith
TIE 26.Zannon
TIE 30.Liston
TIE 30.Boudreaux
TIE 32.Urtain
TIE 32.Bodell
TIE 32.Clark
TIE 32.Ward
TIE 32.Occassio
TIE 32.Cooney
TIE 38.Middleton
TIE 38.Neuman
TIE 38.d'Elia
TIE 38.LeDoux

Though I do not agree with all placements on this list it is just a summary of each year combined
for the decade.It does give an interesting view.

My two pennies worth : -

I think

1. Ali
2. Foreman
3. Frazier
4. Holmes
5. Norton
6. Young
7. Lyle
8. Quarry
9. Shavers
10. Bugner

I have watched over 40 Holmes fights over the last month ; I am a life long fan, literally. My view after watching all of these fights recently is that Holmes isn't quite as great as the current trend proclaims him to be. I also think his chin is somewhat over rated. He was staggered by Norton went life and death and won a close but deserved split decision over an aging Norton. Mike Weaver fight he was almost beaten, credit to him he fought back and stopped Hercules. Shavers 2 - decked twice, once officially one badly called as a no knockdown. Shavers ran out of steam. Renaldo Snipes decked him severely, Holmes came back to win. Tim Witherspoon staggered Larry badly and was close to stopping him. Larry fought back and one a 'controversial split decision over a green Terrible Tim. Carl Williams seemed to me to be unlucky to lose a decision and then the two Spinks fights where he lost to a light heavyweight. Then Tyson destroyed Holmes easily dropping him three times. In the fight with Mercer Holmes was almost knocked out by a jab before recovering and taking Ray to school.
Okay I am picking holes but he isnt the invincible fighter many make him out to be. Frazier in 1971 definitely beats him , breaks his ribs like he did to Larry in sparring. Ali, Foreman and prime Norton also beat him in my opinion. Maybe Jimmy Young too

[quote="Broomhall"]I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.[/quote

I tend to agree with you.

I wish Holmes was 5 years older, or turned pro in 1968 instead of 1973.

Broomhall wrote:I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

True that, but this same guy went all the way to avoid Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, and giving rematches to Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.

Nile4000 wrote:

Broomhall wrote:I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

True that, but this same guy went all the way to avoid Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, and giving rematches to Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.

Didn't peak Greg keep getting beat just when he close to getting a shot?

Giancarlo wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:

Broomhall wrote:I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

True that, but this same guy went all the way to avoid Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, and giving rematches to Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.

Didn't peak Greg keep getting beat just when he close to getting a shot?

Yes Page lost every time he was close to Holmes.Quite sad really.

Depending on which fights you count...

But I like

Ali
Holmes
Frazier
Young
Foreman
Norton

Ezzard wrote:Depending on which fights you count...

But I like

Ali
Holmes
Frazier
Young
Foreman
Norton

But Foreman banged out Frazier twice?

Frazier beat Ali.

Ezzard wrote:Frazier beat Ali.

Well, once out of three :-)

Giancarlo wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:

Broomhall wrote:I would make you right on the above, but you know, this may be sacrilege to say this, but there is a chance Holmes could have beaten all of the above.

True that, but this same guy went all the way to avoid Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, and giving rematches to Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.

Didn't peak Greg keep getting beat just when he close to getting a shot?

When it counted(in 1983), Larry gave up the belt rather than fight Greg.

@tiny_acres

After 1983, truthfully, didn't really matter.Greg battles with Don King, and his own demons ruined him.

Nile4000 wrote:
When it counted(in 1983), Larry gave up the belt rather than fight Greg.

SteveO wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Frazier beat Ali.

Well, once out of three :-)

In 40 something rounds Frazier won about 17 or 18 of them (just a guess). Foreman barely won a round against Ali. If he'd have fought him 3 times he'd still not have won a round against him.

Barely a round? I gave Foreman three. It was a very competitive fight going into the 8th round.
Foreman also blew out Norton, whom Frazier never fought.

I don't see that. I see Ali dominating the whole fight. Maybe Foreman wins a round because Ali decides to take it easy but that's it.

Really? I have seen these fights many times and always saw it as a back and forth fight with a lot of action. It was a great fight.
For what it's worth, I checked the officials scoring.
They had Ali up, 69-67, 70-66, and 69-66.
Going by rounds, they would have had it, 4-2-1 for Ali, another had it 3-0-4 (yes he had 4 rounds even) and the other had it 4-1-2.

So while they, only one actually gave Foreman more than one round, all three officials had Foreman winning or being even in at least three rounds. It's also clear that they thought there were some rounds that were very close.

I had Ali ahead 67-66 or 4 rounds to 3, going into the last round. (I seldom score a round even.)

Ambling Alp II wrote:Really? I have seen these fights many times and always saw it as a back and forth fight with a lot of action. It was a great fight.
For what it's worth, I checked the officials scoring.
They had Ali up, 69-67, 70-66, and 69-66.
Going by rounds, they would have had it, 4-2-1 for Ali, another had it 3-0-4 (yes he had 4 rounds even) and the other had it 4-1-2.

So while they, only one actually gave Foreman more than one round, all three officials had Foreman winning or being even in at least three rounds. It's also clear that they thought there were some rounds that were very close.

I had Ali ahead 67-66 or 4 rounds to 3, going into the last round. (I seldom score a round even.)

I think I am with you Ambler

Giancarlo wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:
When it counted(in 1983), Larry gave up the belt rather than fight Greg.

It's true, look it up.