BoxRec

Where would you rank Floyd in terms of pure boxing ability and skills?

The best in the sport over the last several years.

Master of the sweet science but lacks the offence to be a true great in the vein of the 2 Sugar Rays & lacks a truely definitive win.

Its a hard one ,, His skills are undeniable , the guy is one hell of a skillful boxer , especielly in defence , he should be ranked up there has one of the all time greats , BUT i doubt he will .

For me at least and its only my opinion , Floyd has always had every thing needed , Physicly but mentaly i'm not sure about the guy ,, I remember him giving Gatto a lesson everyone raved , me i just thought Yeh ,, but he was tailor made for your style . Since then i dunno i've always felt Floyd only fights when he can get someone at a disadvantage .

That means he fights them when there old and on the decline , Oscar ,, Mosley , too name two, he always has the refs intimidated and been allowed to get away with stuff ,, Ok its boxing and stuff happens , but Floyd rubs his laces on a face , its Ok , Floyd holds and hits its OK , Floyd rabbit punches its Ok .. and thats fine , but when he gets it back he's the first to complain , and the referee's ALWAYS pull his opponents up ,,
Floyd has somehow been able to get the refs to look after him , by constantly making his opponents fight to one standard and behave the rules , while allowing Floyd to do has he wants ,, he bitches about gloves , he bitches aboput the drug testing , but only when it suits him .

All in all for me Floyd has been allowed to get away with too much in his favor , and he has not needed it , because the skills have always been there .

Will what i and many others think make a difference no , but theres more than enough that think that way it will affect his legacy has a ATG

the one fight that can redeem him has not happenned , and it should off 5 years ago , . His constantly putting obstacles in the way could of made the fight , because when all said and done He could of said stop the nonsence , 50-50 biggest payday for both of us don't care if its in vegas or Wembley stadium , get the fight on we split the money .. BUT HE DID'NT

So for me Floyd will always be ranked top 10 ,, but definetly not in the top 5 . his O is not has important has he thinks it is , because he simply NEVER fought anyone when they were at there best , at least not the guys who mattered ,, he is the champ but he never acts like one .

I'd rank him as the best in putting both offense and defense together as one of the top dogs because he transitions so smoothly and makes the smallest of adjustments that confuses his opponents and leaves them not knowing how to solve his puzzle while he seemingly frustrates them by making them miss even while standing right in front of him.

The only other fighter I've seen make fighters miss like that while standing right in front of them are Ali and Sweet Pea, they literally toyed with their opponents while slapping them around with ease.

Floyd may not have an over-aggressive style but he is the consummate boxer, his signature win over Corrales is proof that he has all the tools in his drawer to become a study in technique down the line as to how he manages to put himself head and shoulders above the rest in the ring with what he does.

Once beats Manny then everyone will give him the credit for all the other stuff he's already done, he's probably one of the rare few who has beaten over 20 plus champions in recent history but still doesn't get the proper credit he deserves because he's just too good at what he does and people hate him so that makes it easy to discredit him.

I would say he is the best I have seen since SRL, Roy J and Sweet Pea. Slightly better than pea on defense. Technically speaking, he has the best all around skills I have ever seen since watching. I think RJJ was the most naturally gifted. Now, if he would put them to use like he used to, it would be fun to watch against the best guys now. He is a level above everyone currently, imo.

Mayweather has the best defence since Pernell [sweet pea] Whitacker has great footwork, excellent chin, great fighting brain shifty/cunning, Lack's Power that some of the all time great's like Hearns/Robinson/Duran but his speed makes up for that 3 fold it's as good if not better than any all time great's would give just about anyone trouble but I believe he has to beat Pacman and then move to Middleweight defeat Golvokin before I'd even consider him along side the TWO SUGAR RAY'S.

i was impressed when in recent years he did
not only show his superb defensive skill, but
could perform fast aggression in ring center.

i have him in defense among the top five of
all time, in ring intelligence top three. at this
level differences are very small anyways. top
contenders for defense are for me locche and
sweetpea, intelligence i have up there ali and
leonard. and floyd blends in with them very
nicely.

overall it is extremely difficult to say how he
would do against the likes SRR. i could see
him lose fair and square against SRR, SRL
and duran. hagler i think he could read
enough to get a close decision. tommy hearns
could shut him out or loose a decision, it is
like all tommy fights: everything is possible.

against a certain kind of fighter he would
probably do well easily. for example the
human windmill style of greb would favour
floyd IMO, though of course that is pure
speculation, since there's no footage.

all in all i think ATGs are easier detected after
they left the scene. boxing fans are sentimental
towards the past, like everyone else.

Great blend of skills and athleticism. Not quite as skilled or tactically brilliant as Hopkins but still super smart and much quicker and more athletic. Not as insanely quick as Roy Jones.

Decent chin, reasonable power but not on the level of a Cotto or a younger Mosley, let alone a Trinidad type. Don't know if he fights on the inside as well as Toney or BHop but he can certainly fight inside better than most. Doesn't have anything on pure-offense to compare to the assault of a prime Pacquiao but his defense and counter punching is like art.

So hard to rank so many variables (I'd say impossible) but he probably has the best mix of all round ability since I've been a fan (Rigo aside, potentially). Wouldn't stop me picking certain fighters from his era to beat him. And I'm sure a lot of guys I'd rank over Floyd in terms of accomplishments would not be as great all-around as he is, but might do one or two things better.

Edit: Roy's an interesting example. So clearly lacking in fundamentals and still toyed with a very skilled elite guy in Toney.

crusader wrote:The best in the sport over the last several years.

I think technically you are correct.

man wrote:i was impressed when in recent years he did
not only show his superb defensive skill, but
could perform fast aggression in ring center.

i have him in defense among the top five of
all time, in ring intelligence top three. at this
level differences are very small anyways. top
contenders for defense are for me locche and
sweetpea, intelligence i have up there ali and
leonard. and floyd blends in with them very
nicely.

overall it is extremely difficult to say how he
would do against the likes SRR. i could see
him lose fair and square against SRR, SRL
and duran. hagler i think he could read
enough to get a close decision. tommy hearns
could shut him out or loose a decision, it is
like all tommy fights: everything is possible.

against a certain kind of fighter he would
probably do well easily. for example the
human windmill style of greb would favour
floyd IMO, though of course that is pure
speculation, since there's no footage.

all in all i think ATGs are easier detected after
they left the scene. boxing fans are sentimental
towards the past, like everyone else.

I have a hard time with believing someone who thinks Golovkin is too big and strong to fight would beat Hagler.

fergusg wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:I have a hard time with believing someone who thinks Golovkin is too big and strong to fight would beat Hagler.

When Marvellous Marvin Hagler was fighting, the official weigh-in took place on the day of the fight.

Hagler typically weighed two or three pounds under the 160lb weight limit on the day of the fight, which means he wasn't draining himself to make weight.

In stark contrast, the official weigh-ins for Gennady Golovkin’s fights are the day prior, which means that he has 24 hours to rehydrate, resulting in him usually entering the ring around the 173lb mark… and he’s pretty damn ripped and stocky.

Therefore, you’re talking about a potential 15lb weight discrepancy between Hagler and Golovkin come fight night, which is a considerable size disadvantage to overcome.

I don’t know whether or not Golovkin would beat Hagler, though I prefer to think that he couldn’t, but it is an irrefutable fact that the Kazakhstani is heavier and taller than the Marvellous One.

Exactly ... for whatever reason, people don't seem to understand that fighting a "normal" middleweight is fighting a light heavyweight ... but whatever, people want to see Floyd at 153 fight GGG at 173 ...

fergusg wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:I have a hard time with believing someone who thinks Golovkin is too big and strong to fight would beat Hagler.

When Marvellous Marvin Hagler was fighting, the official weigh-in took place on the day of the fight.

Hagler typically weighed two or three pounds under the 160lb weight limit on the day of the fight, which means he wasn't draining himself to make weight.

In stark contrast, the official weigh-ins for Gennady Golovkin’s fights are the day prior, which means that he has 24 hours to rehydrate, resulting in him usually entering the ring around the 173lb mark… and he’s pretty damn ripped and stocky.

Therefore, you’re talking about a potential 15lb weight discrepancy between Hagler and Golovkin come fight night, which is a considerable size disadvantage to overcome.

I don’t know whether or not Golovkin would beat Hagler, though I prefer to think that he couldn’t, but it is an irrefutable fact that the Kazakhstani is heavier and taller than the Marvellous One.

1. Yes, but Hagler is still a career middleweight that only fought in fights contracted at 160 even as an amateur he fought at 165 and would never weigh in at 154 or below even with a 24hr rehydrations.
2. Floyd can't get into Hagler's mind. Hagler would probably legitimately scare Floyd with his prefight tactics
3. Floyd wouldn't even fight Lara, Williams, or Wright, but he'll somehow fight and beat Hager who is the ultimate high risk no reward?
4. To take on Hagler in any regard means you aren't afraid of anyone. I can't see someone who makes all kinds of demands just for Pacquiao be willing to fight Hagler.

5. Hagler was a Top Rank fighter so Floyd would run RUN RUN

Ricky_ wrote:Master of the sweet science but lacks the offence to be a true great in the vein of the 2 Sugar Rays & lacks a truely definitive win.

First of all, there aren't 2 Sugar Rays. There is Sugar Ray Robinson .......... and then there's Sugar Ray Leonard.

Secondly, to say that Floyd lacks the offense of a true great is beyond stupid. Floyd chooses to fight defensively. However, in any fight that you've seen him open up, he showed an arsenal of punches that few fighters all time could match. Floyd can fight in the trenches, he can lead, he can counter ... and he could do all of these things with both hands to head and body with accuracy. He doesn't do it, because unlike the "2 Sugar Rays" he doesn't get hit as often. It's a give and take.

If Oscar De La Hoya had the same ability and career as Floyd, at this point, we'd be calling him top 5 p4p all-time. But, because there's such a strong anti-Floyd bias, even among "experts", Floyd's abilities get diminished.

Also, Floyd has fought and dominated several top 10 p4p fighters. What more does someone have to do to have a definitive win?

6. If Floyd thought Pacquiao was vicious enough to be on something, he'd never go near Hagler. And Hagler would probably kill him in the ring if Floyd accused him of PEDs.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Master of the sweet science but lacks the offence to be a true great in the vein of the 2 Sugar Rays & lacks a truely definitive win.

First of all, there aren't 2 Sugar Rays. There is Sugar Ray Robinson .......... and then there's Sugar Ray Leonard.

Secondly, to say that Floyd lacks the offense of a true great is beyond stupid. Floyd chooses to fight defensively. However, in any fight that you've seen him open up, he showed an arsenal of punches that few fighters all time could match. Floyd can fight in the trenches, he can lead, he can counter ... and he could do all of these things with both hands to head and body with accuracy. He doesn't do it, because unlike the "2 Sugar Rays" he doesn't get hit as often. It's a give and take.

If Oscar De La Hoya had the same ability and career as Floyd, at this point, we'd be calling him top 5 p4p all-time. But, because there's such a strong anti-Floyd bias, even among "experts", Floyd's abilities get diminished.

Also, Floyd has fought and dominated several top 10 p4p fighters. What more does someone have to do to have a definitive win?

Exactly! totally proved himself time and time again and with the Saul Alvarez fight at his age! still doing that to a young undefeated fighter pure class! the guy is a genius boxer and a great business man good luck to him. F the rest of it, it's showbiz!

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Master of the sweet science but lacks the offence to be a true great in the vein of the 2 Sugar Rays & lacks a truely definitive win.

First of all, there aren't 2 Sugar Rays. There is Sugar Ray Robinson .......... and then there's Sugar Ray Leonard.

Secondly, to say that Floyd lacks the offense of a true great is beyond stupid. Floyd chooses to fight defensively. However, in any fight that you've seen him open up, he showed an arsenal of punches that few fighters all time could match. Floyd can fight in the trenches, he can lead, he can counter ... and he could do all of these things with both hands to head and body with accuracy. He doesn't do it, because unlike the "2 Sugar Rays" he doesn't get hit as often. It's a give and take.

If Oscar De La Hoya had the same ability and career as Floyd, at this point, we'd be calling him top 5 p4p all-time. But, because there's such a strong anti-Floyd bias, even among "experts", Floyd's abilities get diminished.

Also, Floyd has fought and dominated several top 10 p4p fighters. What more does someone have to do to have a definitive win?

This +1 all millennium long!!

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Master of the sweet science but lacks the offence to be a true great in the vein of the 2 Sugar Rays & lacks a truely definitive win.

First of all, there aren't 2 Sugar Rays. There is Sugar Ray Robinson .......... and then there's Sugar Ray Leonard.

Secondly, to say that Floyd lacks the offense of a true great is beyond stupid. Floyd chooses to fight defensively. However, in any fight that you've seen him open up, he showed an arsenal of punches that few fighters all time could match. Floyd can fight in the trenches, he can lead, he can counter ... and he could do all of these things with both hands to head and body with accuracy. He doesn't do it, because unlike the "2 Sugar Rays" he doesn't get hit as often. It's a give and take.

If Oscar De La Hoya had the same ability and career as Floyd, at this point, we'd be calling him top 5 p4p all-time. But, because there's such a strong anti-Floyd bias, even among "experts", Floyd's abilities get diminished.

Also, Floyd has fought and dominated several top 10 p4p fighters. What more does someone have to do to have a definitive win?

One thing you can say about Oscar is that with the exception of maybe Winky Wright, he never turned down anyone in their prime even as the top dog. He fought everyone win or lose. Hager Leonard, Hears, and Duran all fought their equals which were each other. They didn't have excuses about "Hagler is signed to this promoter" or "Hearns might be juicing cause he's knocking dudes out."

Based on skill and ability, Floyd is among the best the sport has seen. Floyd is exceptionally fast hand and foot, his reflexes are great and his timing is unmatched. Floyd does lack one punch KO power, but that has to do with a number of things. Floyd's fragile hands and defensive style are 2 of the main reasons Floyd doesn't go for more KOs, because the fact is Floyd is more than capable of stopping a lot of guys on a accumulation of punches, but he chooses to box smart. Floyd was also much more offensive minded in the lower weight classes, Floyd began to be much more defensive minded when he started fighting guys who were naturally bigger than him and even to this day Floyd is 15+ lbs smaller than his opponents regularly. Floyds is also among the best defensive fighters to ever fight.

One common misconception when it comes to Floyd is people question Floyds ability to stand and fight. I think we've seen against Cotto, N'dou, Mosley, Ortiz, Augustus and several other instances where Floyd showed he was more than capable of standing in front of some very good fighters and mix it up with them at close quarters. But at the end of the day, boxing is about hitting and not being hit and ultimately winning and when it's all said and done winning is more important than entertaining blood thirsty fans that will pay to watch you fight at the chance to see you lose.

Floyd has got exceptional boxing ability and a strong mental attitude, he is a very strong competitor though he games the event his way.

For me he's the definitive No1 of his generation and the most talented fighter ive seen since ive been into boxing full time but sometimes i just wish he'd let his hands go more and show us what he can really do offensively,i can see why he doesnt,he's never really needed to and its all about getting the W,i love to watch him and defensively he's the best ive seen

The reason i get frustrated is because he's still got the speed and timing in the locker,so why not show it in fights when your clearly in control

IKSRTFO wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:If Oscar De La Hoya had the same ability and career as Floyd, at this point, we'd be calling him top 5 p4p all-time. But, because there's such a strong anti-Floyd bias, even among "experts", Floyd's abilities get diminished.
One thing you can say about Oscar is that with the exception of maybe Winky Wright, he never turned down anyone in their prime even as the top dog. He fought everyone win or lose. Hager Leonard, Hears, and Duran all fought their equals which were each other. They didn't have excuses about "Hagler is signed to this promoter" or "Hearns might be juicing cause he's knocking dudes out."

I've come to the conclusion that anyone who only blames Floyd for not fighting Manny or other TR fighters is proving their bias against him. I'm sick of people giving Bob Arum a free pass in the situation. Just like Don King, he is a piece of shit who needs to be ran out of the sport ... and before some dickheads start jumping to his defense, Don King put on much better cards/promotions in his prime and was still run out the sport because we all saw that his greed was bad for boxing ... but for some reason ... some reason ... Arum continually gets a pass.

Also, Floyd has pretty much fought every top fighter during his career. He also fought almost all of them coming off a win, or at a point in which they were highly regarded and most confident.

Man Mayweather won't fight any middleweight champion today let alone a ten all time great like Hagler.

On ability? a 10 out of 10. The record speaks for itself.

Floyd would have ran from Hearns twice as fast as he ran from Pac.

That being said, he's a master technician.