BoxRec

The fight is scheduled 17th January (according to BoxRec)....

One week to go...

Who you got?

I really have no idea about this... I don't rate Stiverne that highly but I don't see Wilder as the next great Heavyweight the way that some of the Americans do...
It's a hard call.

All I know is whoever wins will win by KO, early. I'll be at least a lil surprised if not in full on shock if it lasts 5 full rounds & I tend to think this fight could be of amateur length & a KO will still be seen.

Both guys are super sketchy in my mind still. Bermane is obviously the more proven of the two, but he gots a KO loss to a journeyman & a draw vs a journeyman. His most legit W's are over Chris Arreola who's been defined by his lack of desire & work ethic despite a respectable skill level & decent accomplishments himself. Deontay is still pretty much a figment of his promoters imagination with lil facts on the table about what he's capable of outside of raw power. Anyone making a prediction here is at least pulling it out of their ass a lil bit lol or just going on a like or dislike of one guy over the guy.

I've consistently picked Stiverne. There's like a 10-20% chance that Wilder is as good as certain people think he is. If he is that good, then we can get to debating whether Stiverne would beat a guy that good or not. But if there's an 80-90% chance that Wilder isn't even that guy, then he's definitely the underdog.

hype really does influence people

hype made audley Harrison vs haye - 50/50
but on the door what happened is what we should have really expected

Wilder to win this one, then to be ripped to shreds by Wlad in a mega money encounter in America - it's good business for Wilder to win, for the fans and for the fight game!

My guess is that it is very tentative for the first few rounds with Wilder having a couple of moments of seeming to hurt Stiverne a bit, then somewhere between 4-7 Stiverne starts figuring him out and then walks him onto something fight ending.

Almost anything could happen though which is why it is an exciting match-up. While I do think it'll be tentative action most of the way through, neither guy is good enough defensively to make it a complete snoozer in the style of Wlad-Haye at least. Eventually (and more than likely before half-way) someone is getting KO'd.

I don't rate Stiverne high and am not sure what to think of Wilder.
Doesn't matter who I pick I will have no confidence in that pick.
It will be a good fight that ends inside of six rounds. Can't see Wilder winning a decision he stops Stiverne or he loses.

Wilder is almost in a "win-win" situation. If he wins outright obviously that's huge but if he just loses a competitive, entertaining fight and shows some heart in the process that will greatly increase his standing among boxing fans.
Stiverne?
Well if he wins people will say he exposed a protected, hyped-up bum(and they may be 100% correct) but at least he will still have the WBC belt.
If Stiverne loses he will immediately be declared a bum.

Perseus wrote:Wilder is almost in a "win-win" situation.

Strongly disagree. If he loses, even in an entertaining fight in which he shows heart, I think he generally becomes seen as a very protected hype job who failed as soon as he fought a dangerous opponent.

Also:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 618&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 644&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 809&hilit=

Wilder - Knockout - round 6

People say Wilder will win because of his reach, but Wilder's not even that good at using his reach.

crusader wrote:

Perseus wrote:Wilder is almost in a "win-win" situation.

Strongly disagree. If he loses, even in an entertaining fight in which he shows heart, I think he generally becomes seen as a very protected hype job who failed as soon as he fought a dangerous opponent.

Also:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 618&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 644&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 809&hilit=

No because he hasn't been in a real fight yet.
It seems like most people are expecting him to fold as soon as he finds somebody that doesn't fall over the first time he lands a decent shot.
If that's what happens he'll be forgotten quickly but boxing fans seem to like boxers who aren't world class but have shown they have heart.
Even including proven world class boxers how many times over the years have we seen boxers gain more respect in defeat than they ever did in victory?

Title or not this is a good test for Wilder, definitely his toughest opponent. Team Wilder probably banking on Stiverne laid back fighting style. Don't be fooled Stiverne can bang.

Freedom wrote:Title or not this is a good test for Wilder, definitely his toughest opponent. Team Wilder probably banking on Stiverne laid back fighting style. Don't be fooled Stiverne can bang.

agree
his 2 overhand rights were lightning
and his barrage of punches vs arreaola when tkod him were powerul and quick

VG_Addict wrote:People say Wilder will win because of his reach, but Wilder's not even that good at using his reach.

I see your point, but I do think he has improved. The problem is, none of us have seen enough of Wilder to even fairly judge his skills. 4 rounds just doesn't show you much especially when you consider most of his competition. He hasn't had to test his chin, he hasn't had to rely on his jab, etc. (at least for very long) If you watch him spar you could tell much more about what skills he has than watching him in a boxing match. Being the gym rat he is I would expect him to be in top shape.

According to Wlad a couple of years ago, Wilder was the fastest and possibly most powerful he has been in the ring with. Both him and the late E. Steward said he will definitely be a champion. They must have seen something in him that was special, other than just a big punch.

Good test for him against Stiverne. The good chance for a KO (either way) makes it an exciting match.

No draw, no decision... it will be a knockout.

Stiverne by KO Round 3.

Perseus wrote:

crusader wrote:

Perseus wrote:Wilder is almost in a "win-win" situation.

Strongly disagree. If he loses, even in an entertaining fight in which he shows heart, I think he generally becomes seen as a very protected hype job who failed as soon as he fought a dangerous opponent.

Also:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 618&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 644&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 809&hilit=

No because he hasn't been in a real fight yet.
It seems like most people are expecting him to fold as soon as he finds somebody that doesn't fall over the first time he lands a decent shot.
If that's what happens he'll be forgotten quickly but boxing fans seem to like boxers who aren't world class but have shown they have heart.
Even including proven world class boxers how many times over the years have we seen boxers gain more respect in defeat than they ever did in victory?

I don't think most people are expecting him to fold as you suggest and he is the clear favorite to win this fight, so if he loses I think it will reflect negatively on him from the perspectives of those who think he's little more than a hype job and those who expect him to win and perhaps feel that he's legitimately a top HW who simply hasn't faced a suitable opponent to showcase his ability against. You mention that fighters often gain more respect in victory than they did in defeat, but I think this fight is generally being seen as one that answers whether he is legitimate or not, and the result, not how it was reached, is going to be the main factor used in answering that. Proven world class fighters whose ability is already respected don't have the same question asked of them, and hence I believe that people are probably less inclined to use their bouts as a way to answer whether the fighter is of world-class caliber and more likely to look at other factors, such as how much heart they showed.

I also believe that Wilder is already generally seen as at least reasonably fun to watch given his knockouts and the popular perception that he's chinny, so I think there is a significant limit to how much his reputation would be enhance from an entertaining fight. To name an apposite case, David Price's rematch loss to Tony Thompson was quite entertaining, but I don't think it did much to help his reputation and there was far more discussion of how Price was overrated and very limited than there was of him just being in a good fight. You may suggest that this is because he had already lost, but Price was generally favored to win the rematch and to me the reaction was reflective of people being mainly concerned about results when it comes to largely untested fighters. Perhaps Wilder will show enough heart and provide enough entertainment to override the loss of reputation that would accompany a defeat, but that seems far less inevitable to me than you seem to think based on your 'win-win' suggestion. I think the general reaction will be to take the defeat as reflective of why his opposition was so poor for so long, why he hadn't fought a puncher until Stiverne, and how Wilder is just one of many hyped fighters (e.g. Price) who lost when they finally fought a dangerous foe.

The Bronze Bomber proves that his nickname and power are legit and sends the faux heavyweight champion packing with an early KO.

For you gamblers out there, Wilder remains an 8 1/2-5 (-175) favorite at most books.
You can get +140 if you fancy the WBC champ.

Oddsmakers certainly don't expect this bout to go the distance. They offer a heavy +850 on Wilder winning by decision and +900 on a Stiverne getting the judges' call.

On the KO side, Wilder is a -140 choice to win the title by stoppage, while Stiverne returns +190 to retain the belt by KO.

The overs/unders line is a generous 7.5 rounds, but it's -250 that the bout ends before that and +175 that it goes into the late rounds.


On the same card, oddsmakers are convinced that Leo Santa Cruz has found another tomato can in defense of his WBC super bantam title.
He's a lopsided 50-1 favorite over opponent Jesus Ruiz of Mexico.

As usual, Santa Cruz calls his foe a "great fighter," but the one-sided odds belie that assessment.
Maybe he could give fellow champ Rigo a battle, but Santa Cruz' father has stated that he has no interest in putting his son in with the Cuban.
I guess papa suspects that Rigo would be too much of a step up from guys like Ruiz and Manuel Roman.

Perseus wrote:

crusader wrote:

Perseus wrote:Wilder is almost in a "win-win" situation.

Strongly disagree. If he loses, even in an entertaining fight in which he shows heart, I think he generally becomes seen as a very protected hype job who failed as soon as he fought a dangerous opponent.

Also:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 618&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 644&hilit=
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 809&hilit=

No because he hasn't been in a real fight yet.
It seems like most people are expecting him to fold as soon as he finds somebody that doesn't fall over the first time he lands a decent shot.
If that's what happens he'll be forgotten quickly but boxing fans seem to like boxers who aren't world class but have shown they have heart.
Even including proven world class boxers how many times over the years have we seen boxers gain more respect in defeat than they ever did in victory?

I agree. There's a lot that Wilder could potentially do to earn my respect, even in defeat. I've never seen any heart from him. He could show a lot of heart despite defeat. I've never seen that he can take a punch. He could prove that he can take a punch, even in defeat. I've never seen him outbox a skilled boxer. He could demonstrate solid skills, even while being narrowly outboxed by a skilled opponent. It's not as though Provodnikov lost everybody's respect when he narrowly lost to Bradley; he gained massive amounts of respect. When Arreola lost to Vitali and cried afterwards, I actually respected him more for the fact that he wanted to win that badly, instead of resigning himself to defeat from the beginning like most challengers.

Unlike the favored Wilder, Provo was a huge underdog against Bradley and did far better than expected, and it's much easier for a reputation to be enhanced when one does better than expected rather than worse than expected. Bradley was also generally held in much higher regard than Stiverne is, so I think the cases are very different.

Wilder giving Wlad hell, showing great heart, but just falling short is much more comparable to Provo-Bradley than Wilder doing the same against Stiverne would be; in the first case I think Wilder's reputation would benefit significantly, but not so much in the latter.

I never think much of a fighter who earns a higher reputation by actually losing.

Reminds me of the days of Razor Ruddock. He went in favored over Lennox Lewis for the vacant title and was blown away in short order.

How did Ruddock gain his lofty rep and subsequent title shot? By losing not just once, but twice to Tyson. And once by KO.
Ruddock demonstrated that losing big in major bouts doesn't make you an elite fighter.

If Wilder is to be respected, he can't lose Saturday. Losing is for Pulev, Leapai and Solis.
Either he wins Saturday (hopefully in devastating fashion) or Wilder's just another guy in a dreary division.

SenorPipino wrote:I never think much of a fighter who earns a higher reputation by actually losing.

IMO, Wilder has done actual stone 0 up to this point. He never punched an opponent who was attempting to win. He never boxed an opponent who was attempting to win. He never took a punch from an opponent who was attempting to win. Some of his opponents even look like they were paid to take a dive, and were selling the KO Hollywood-style. If there was a doctor taking the vital signs of these opponents before the fight, it would just be 32 guys with no pulse. Being that he's done absolutely nothing of substance, his record might as well be 0-0 right now. Earning a reputation from losing narrowly to a top fighter counts for a lot more than earning a reputation from doing absolutely not a single thing at all. If he's a hair worse than Stiverne, then that means he's maybe #6 or #7. If he's as big of a fraud as Seth Mitchell or Audley Harrison, which he still might be given that he's done nothing up to this point, then he might not even really belong in the top 25.

I'm not big on Stiverne . . he's overweight; he has a low punch out-put; his footwork is snail slow. But he has genuine one-punch knockout power; fairly quick hands, and has shown he can take heavy artillery and fight back. Wilder has decent speed, big height/reach and big power but I have yet to be impressed at all by his boxing ability and of course he hasn't had to deal with any adversity beyond getting off the deck vs a perennial loser to win.

In these fights, I almost always go for the guy who has shown guts prior, especially since Wilder's opponent choices tell me his people are really worried about his chin.

Lackeos wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:I never think much of a fighter who earns a higher reputation by actually losing.

IMO, Wilder has done actual stone 0 up to this point. He never punched an opponent who was attempting to win. He never boxed an opponent who was attempting to win. He never took a punch from an opponent who was attempting to win. Some of his opponents even look like they were paid to take a dive, and were selling the KO Hollywood-style. If there was a doctor taking the vital signs of these opponents before the fight, it would just be 32 guys with no pulse. Being that he's done absolutely nothing of substance, his record might as well be 0-0 right now. Earning a reputation from losing narrowly to a top fighter counts for a lot more than earning a reputation from doing absolutely not a single thing at all. If he's a hair worse than Stiverne, then that means he's maybe #6 or #7. If he's as big of a fraud as Seth Mitchell or Audley Harrison, which he still might be given that he's done nothing up to this point, then he might not even really belong in the top 25.

agree, question i ask is what would stiverne do to wilders 32 opponents, same thing

seth mitchell, boystov, harrison, all the same

anyway i werent be suprised if alhaymon has given stiverne a good retirement package (he is 36) and haymon badly wants wilder champ on nbc

As long as Stiverne keeps calm and composed, and doesn't get caught with something stupid... I think what we will see is a repeat of the Arreola rematch... I'll give Wilder the benefit of the doubt and say this goes 7-8 rounds... but with Stiverne winning on a TKO.