BoxRec

The Shotgun meets the Sugar Man. Who wins?

Monzon. Too big and strong for leonard.

Monzon UD

Leonard KO3

Monzon has no chance against the privileged upbringing and gold medal amateur career of Ray Leonard. The fact that Leonard got $40000 ($1000000000 in today's money) for his first fight tells me all I need to know about that obscure South Americans chances against the American. A mismatch.

I'd pick Leonard to leave Monzon stuck and win a UD. I've always found Monzon to be over rated.

Id give Leonard a solid chance. Monzon is overrated and lorded over a weak division using his size to beat smaller aging fighters. Prime for prime size wasnt as much of an issue for Leonard who wasnt a whole lot smaller than Monzon in the height and reach department. Hearns did everything better than Monzon except durability and Leonard beat him so Id give him a good shot at Monzon.

So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

BoxBuzz wrote:So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

And Monzon is similar to Duran in what way? They're both Spanish speaking boxers ?

Leonard lost to Duran due to a stupid game plan.

At top performance, Leonard couldn't accomplish what Briscoe did ?

For a guy who beat Hagler when he was the still the world's number 1 pfp on most lists, I don't see where beating Monzon would be some insurmountable task.

BoxBuzz wrote:So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

50 pence is hardly considered money Buzz....

We never saw Leonard at his best at middleweight, but I think if he'd bulked up after Kalule, even the best Monzon would have had a fight on his hands. Leonard needs to box his Hagler game plan, but with the speed and stamina of the monster who took Tommy out.

Othro wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

And Monzon is similar to Duran in what way? They're both Spanish speaking boxers ?

Leonard lost to Duran due to a stupid game plan.

At top performance, Leonard couldn't accomplish what Briscoe did ?

Well you've got a point there.

And I admit that of course he could accomplish what Briscoe did....he would absolutely lose twice to Monzon as well.

I'm not saying it won't be competitive (seamus) but it won't work out for SRL.

Not sure either your "game plan" statement or your "Duran" spin helps your point much.

Monzon never played games, so good or bad game won't work for SRL, and as far as what Duran and Monzon have in common.....

Well....Monzon at middleweight was quite a different level of fighter than Duran even a few pounds lighter.....so not sure that works out for SRL either.

Not a good night for SRL. At MW he's going to fall short vs Monzon more times than not.

Could he win? Sure.....upsets are what define boxing. Would it be likely? I think not.

BoxBuzz wrote:So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

I think the Duran that fought Hagler would give Monzon a closer fight. For the record, I also favour Leonard to beat Monzon decisively.

Bit of an unfair call this one. Ray only had one fight at the weight. I don't see how that Ray stands much of a chance against a peak Monzon. No shame in that. But Carlos would win on points or by stoppage between rounds 12-15.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Othro wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So at top performance, Monzon can't accomplish what Duran accomplished?

Jabberwocky.

Monzon clearly dominates this fight, and it probably ends in whatever fashion Monzon is in the mood for.

He sometimes liked to hurt people for the duration rather than grant them an early pardon.

I would happily take all the Leonard money I could cover.

And Monzon is similar to Duran in what way? They're both Spanish speaking boxers ?

Leonard lost to Duran due to a stupid game plan.

At top performance, Leonard couldn't accomplish what Briscoe did ?

Well you've got a point there.

And I admit that of course he could accomplish what Briscoe did....he would absolutely lose twice to Monzon as well.

I'm not saying it won't be competitive (seamus) but it won't work out for SRL.

Not sure either your "game plan" statement or your "Duran" spin helps your point much.

Monzon never played games, so good or bad game won't work for SRL, and as far as what Duran and Monzon have in common.....

Well....Monzon at middleweight was quite a different level of fighter than Duran even a few pounds lighter.....so not sure that works out for SRL either.

Not a good night for SRL. At MW he's going to fall short vs Monzon more times than not.

Could he win? Sure.....upsets are what define boxing. Would it be likely? I think not.

Briscoe and Monzon are 1-1

Leonard accomplishes the impossible and uses his foot speed and quick bursts of punches to shock Monzon by split decision.
A blown up welter in Emile Griffith gave Monzon all he could handle on two occasions.
The faster, more mobile Leonard would do EG one better by getting the verdict, although he might have to come off the canvas to get the nod.

Out of interest, which Leonard are you talking about; the peak 1979 - 1982 one, who wasn't a middleweight, or the 1987 one?

If you're talking the 1987 version; he isn't beating Monzon.

Monzon wouldn't fight a stupid fight like Hagler did & allow Leonard to out-psyche him & steal rounds.

If you're talking the peak SRL blown up to MW, then it becomes to hard to call, because we don't know if SRL could have successfully carried that amazing footwork & handspeed up to MW & be the same fighter.

If he could do that, I would favour SRL, but it's all ifs & buts.

He would probably have come in much lower than the 160 pound limit. Probably 154-156, like Robinson and Griffith would do.

Ambling Alp II wrote:He would probably have come in much lower than the 160 pound limit. Probably 154-156, like Robinson and Griffith would do.

Dont matter if he came in at whatever weight, he is getting beat.

I lean to Leonard. I see a deeper talent in Leonard, better opponents and greater performances, and talent tends to win out over the minor size advantages Monzon posssses.

....for the record....Monzon beat Briscoe.....Briscoe NEVER beat Monzon.

Just because Briscoe is from the U.S. does not give him a "W" when you see "D". lol.

BoxBuzz wrote:....for the record....Monzon beat Briscoe.....Briscoe NEVER beat Monzon.

Just because Briscoe is from the U.S. does not give him a "W" when you see "D". lol.

Did you see the fight?

Broomhall wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:He would probably have come in much lower than the 160 pound limit. Probably 154-156, like Robinson and Griffith would do.

Dont matter if he came in at whatever weight, he is getting beat.

I just take issue with the the guys who are so certain. When you are dealing with the top men in the trade is no result is certain.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Broomhall wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:He would probably have come in much lower than the 160 pound limit. Probably 154-156, like Robinson and Griffith would do.

Dont matter if he came in at whatever weight, he is getting beat.

I just take issue with the the guys who are so certain. When you are dealing with the top men in the trade is no result is certain.

You are right there, I think Monzon beats Leonard 9 times out of 10. But you never really know for sure.