BoxRec

He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

It seems to me like today skepticism and reasonable criticism are often conflated with hating.

I was impressed by how he boxed in a disciplined manner for 12 rounds, but beating Stiverne--a good fighter but nonetheless an underdog whose best wins were a come from behind victory over Ray Austin and the pair of wins over Arreola--isn't enough for me to be confident that he'll ever rule the division. I think he's top 5 for sure though, and I'm looking forward to seeing him fight more good opponents of various styles and sizes.

i think it is about time to stop that racist accusation
BS. this is boxing. very few people following this sport
are racist.

but those who come up with it repeatedly should take
a good look at themselves.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

i think wilder is the real deal, but i do not think
the people within boxing who are still criticizing
him do so for racial reasons. you are simply
mistaken. shouting "racism!" whenever someone
non-caucasian receives criticism first doesn't help
the cause of racial equality, rather instead stirs it up
over and over again, and secondly, it is … boring.

crusader wrote:It seems to me like today skepticism and reasonable criticism are often conflated with hating.

I was impressed by how he boxed in a disciplined manner for 12 rounds, but beating Stiverne--a good fighter but nonetheless an underdog whose best wins were a come from behind victory over Ray Austin and the pair of wins over Arreola--isn't enough for me to be confident that he'll ever rule the division. I think he's top 5 for sure though, and I'm looking forward to seeing him fight more good opponents of various styles and sizes.

sorry, but that stupid. if there was a ton of guys like tyson, holyfield or bowe today, than i also would truly be skeptical of wilder would rule the division as clear cut #1.

but as of todays heavyweight reality, there is little doubt that he is the future. him or jushua. top 5 is total bullcrap.

povetkin couldnt ko a cruiserweight and was almost losing, some say lost to a guy like huck, a guy wilder would in 2 rounds
stiverne was rated 4 at boxrec and was in most everybodys top 4 and he won like 2 rounds and basicly got chredded
glazkov, a guy who got a SD against scott
fat solis
jennings, who is flatfooted and by far not as powerful or athletic as wilder.....
slow, limited, unathletic pulev......

there is wlad, fury, wilder. wlad, i dont list him even as a boxer, because he is a wrestler and should be dq in every fight. fury is totaly overrated, just happens to be lucky he is tall. but against somebody close as tall as him and much more athletic he wont have a chance.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

He's an exciting fighter who tips the scale at a weight I like for heavyweights. He's got some improving to do but he's definitely good for the division.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Grow up.

Please. You're making yourself look a twat and you don't realise it.

Chepppaaa wrote:

crusader wrote:It seems to me like today skepticism and reasonable criticism are often conflated with hating.

I was impressed by how he boxed in a disciplined manner for 12 rounds, but beating Stiverne--a good fighter but nonetheless an underdog whose best wins were a come from behind victory over Ray Austin and the pair of wins over Arreola--isn't enough for me to be confident that he'll ever rule the division. I think he's top 5 for sure though, and I'm looking forward to seeing him fight more good opponents of various styles and sizes.

sorry, but that stupid. if there was a ton of guys like tyson, holyfield or bowe today, than i also would truly be skeptical of wilder would rule the division as clear cut #1.

but as of todays heavyweight reality, there is little doubt that he is the future. him or jushua. top 5 is total bullcrap.

povetkin couldnt ko a cruiserweight and was almost losing, some say lost to a guy like huck, a guy wilder would in 2 rounds
stiverne was rated 4 at boxrec and was in most everybodys top 4 and he won like 2 rounds and basicly got chredded
glazkov, a guy who got a SD against scott
fat solis
jennings, who is flatfooted and by far not as powerful or athletic as wilder.....
slow, limited, unathletic pulev......

there is wlad, fury, wilder. wlad, i dont list him even as a boxer, because he is a wrestler and should be dq in every fight. fury is totaly overrated, just happens to be lucky he is tall. but against somebody close as tall as him and much more athletic he wont have a chance.

This showing isn't enough for me to be convinced that he will consistently impress against and beat top fighters to an extent that can be considered ruling the division. In the first place, performances fluctuate for better or worse based on many factors, and it tends to be in the long-run when equilibrium is found. I'm thus very reluctant to make such strong claims about a fighter when they've beaten a grand total of one top ten opponent, and even tonight you could see that Wilder wasn't as potent as he was against his previous foes; he has a 97 percent KO ratio overall, but a 0 percent KO ratio against top ten opponents.

Second, and I mentioned this several times before the fight, but I think Stiverne was significantly overrated. Despite much of the talk of Wilder's weak resume, Stiverne's was largely filled with mediocre opponents, he lost to one of them and drew with another, and his two most notable victims are Austin and Arreola, both of whom were ahead when they were stopped. To me Wilder beating Stiverne as he did tonight was not much more impressive than Fury recently shutting out and stopping Chisora, a fighter with a deeper resume and comparable ability to Stiverne in my opinion.

Third, Stiverne is undersized for a HW and I think it's unlikely that the style Wilder used tonight would work as effectively against people closer to his height, which includes fighters like Wlad, Fury, Joshua, and Pulev. I also believe that Povetkin, who is roughly Stiverne's size, has more tools to beat Wilder than Stiverne does, not to mention that to rule a division one must be consistent enough that they avoid significant upsets that aren't seen coming, such as those Wlad and Stiverne himself incurred. Wilder has yet to show his dominance against such a range of top opponents and that he'll consistently turn away lower rated but arguably dangerous foes such as Wach and Price.

I am not doubting that Wilder is a good fighter who is generally fun to watch and adding excitement to the HW scene, but at this point there isn't enough evidence for me to be confident that he ever rules the division. I think there are several fighters in the division who have decent chances of beating him and more good fighters who are not currently on my radar may soon emerge. I think it's reasonable to favor Wilder over almost everyone in the division as you do, but he can hardly be considered an inevitable ruler until he consistently shows his dominance against the best HWs in the world. Wlad has done this for years, yet some people think a decision over Bermane Stiverne outweighs all that.

I read hundreds of posts by Wilder 'Haters' all saying he is untested and has fought poor opposition, I didn't see any saying he can't win a world title because he is black!!

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

It is similar how black americans hates Wladimir Klitschko

Wilder is a good fighter but lets keep this racist bile (opening poster) out of it. 20 years ago, white heavyweights couldn't fight - then the Klitschko's came along. Presently white men can't sprint but Christophe Lemaitre started to make a break through but then went to university, now there is a 14 year old Australian kid that potentially could take over the sprinting scene.

Colour doesn't come into it, there are so many things, social factors that determine what people do. Presently some people will rejoice at the fact that the US has a top heavyweight again and he's black but truth is he may hold a world title but he is not the best heavyweight in the world, that title belongs to a Ukranian - who'd have guessed that 25 years ago?).

Wilder may be the next dominant force in the heavyweight division or he may not, good luck to him but lets cut the racial bollox - skin colour doesn't win anything.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

You are hilarious, all that s**t talking about how UK fighters overrate their fighters, then come out with this absolute guff about Wilder

Stiverne was an average fighter who fought a poor fight, yet Wilder still couldn't put him away.

mad respect. im not a hater just not a fan but couldnt sleep last night was too excoted for the fight,

respect for 12 rounds and dominating a top 5 heavyweight

crusader wrote:This showing isn't enough for me to be convinced that he will consistently impress against and beat top fighters to an extent that can be considered ruling the division.

maybe that is just asking a bit too much ...

Shabranskyy would knock out Wilder. Stiverne got overrated from beating a hanging Arreola, now Wilder will rule the division after the Ukranian studs? You'd all of a sudden see a bunch of CW's making a jump to HW if Wilder ever got into that position.

man wrote:

crusader wrote:This showing isn't enough for me to be convinced that he will consistently impress against and beat top fighters to an extent that can be considered ruling the division.

maybe that is just asking a bit too much ...

At this point it is, but multiple posters suggested that he'll rule the division at some time. I think that's over the top considering that he's beaten one top ten opponent.

crusader wrote:At this point it is, but multiple posters suggested that he'll rule the division at some time. I think that's over the top considering that he's beaten one top ten opponent.

i agree to an extent, but it is the nature of
predictions to be based on uncertainty. once
he in fact has beaten five top ten contenders
the prediction he will rule the division for two
years is pretty much … well not really a thing
i'd call "prediction".

i find it astonishing that people reference to
lack of people he has beaten in order to ridicule
predictions about his future. to me it is the
precise nature of a meaningful prediction, to
imagine what can be and not just put a straight
line from accomplishments into the future.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Man in the mirror...
Idiot. Why on earth do you have the idea that europeans, and especially european boxing fans has anything against black fighters ?
You have issues with your self, your selfesteam and your background. Get help, but somewhere else please.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Thanks for the laugh pal...oh and btw keep your yankee doodle dandy racism over there, see we are more tolerant about skin colour over here...

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Unlikely!

sendo wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

You are hilarious, all that s**t talking about how UK fighters overrate their fighters, then come out with this absolute guff about Wilder

Stiverne was an average fighter who fought a poor fight, yet Wilder still couldn't put him away.

Stiverne is just an average fighter now? Whatever. I re-watched Stiverne's only other loss, and it was a very controversial stoppage. There are no average fighters that become World Champions. At least give Stiverne props for having a world champion chin.
Wilder gets no credit because he couldn't put Stiverne away?

World champion? Stiverne was gifted a vacant belt against a guy he previously beat.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

As a thick headed European I sat at home watching that fight and loving boxing, the anticipation in the build up, the anticipation and enjoyment of the fight, right until the end - it was a welcome return to that type of excitement only the Heavy's, in Vegas, can produce. Can't wait to watch the Wilder ride...

One thing I could never do on a night like last night, all things considered for what it gave us, is boo...

But what did we see at times, the crowd boo'ing... boo'ing on a night like last night ffs.

And we're thick headed?

i agree to an extent, but it is the nature of
predictions to be based on uncertainty. once
he in fact has beaten five top ten contenders
the prediction he will rule the division for two
years is pretty much … well not really a thing
i'd call "prediction".

What uncertainty do you glean from the OP's statement that Wilder will rule the division? He didn't preface his assertion with 'I suspect' or anything comparable. Instead, he and others have stated with certainty that Wilder will dominate the division at some point.

As for the last bit, I believe that Wilder could beat multiple top ten opponents without widely being considered the division's ruler, as is the case with Tyson Fury and Alexander Povetkin.

i find it astonishing that people reference to
lack of people he has beaten in order to ridicule
predictions about his future. to me it is the
precise nature of a meaningful prediction, to
imagine what can be and not just put a straight
line from accomplishments into the future.

Strong claims require strong evidence for me to be convinced by them, and the assertion that Wilder will rule the division is a very strong claim that I'm not convinced by yet for the reasons I've given. I never claimed that he can't or won't become the king of the division, but his performances and opposition haven't convinced me that he's that good yet. I also have to admit that I chuckled upon reading of your astonishment that someone would disagree with a prediction due to not being convinced by the evidence used to support it; to me that seems like an excessive reaction in this case.

I have serious doubts that Wilder will eventually be viewed as the greatest HW of all-time; do you find it astonishing that his relative lack of impressive showing against high-level opponents is one reason for my reluctance to agree with predictions that he'll go down as the greatest HW ever? Do you not think that evidence should be used as a basis for disagreeing with predictions?

Blodhemn wrote:World champion? Stiverne was gifted a vacant belt against a guy he previously beat.

I get your point, but it's not Stiverne's fault he beat who they said he had to beat to get the title. Its not like he avoided anyone to get there. Wasn't he in line to fight Vitali for a year or two? My point is, I was just saying he was the world champ, and is definitely better than just an average fighter. Whether he was worthy of the title or not is an opinion. There are vacant titles all the time that are "gifted" to undeserving guys I guess.