BoxRec

Kell keeps banging on about how he has earned the shot vs the big guys the hard way. But the question is, has he really? Brook has fought 33 times and the most notable fighters from that bunch are;

Shawn Porter (Good fighter and a well deserved victory)
Vyacheslav Senchenko (Former world champ, biggest fight coming against Malignaggi, not a real contender)
Carson Jones x2 (Ranked 55 in the world, not an elite fighter)
Hector David Saldivia (Ranked 112, a paper fighter with a good record)

Bear in mind these are 5 fights from 33 and some of them aren't even challenging fights...

On the other hand fighters like Amir Khan who has had the same amount of fights and has fought the likes of; Kotelnik, Barrera, Malignaggi, Maidana, Judah, Peterson, Garcia, Collazo and Alexander.

So you guys be the judge.

Were Jones and Saldiva ranked 55 & 112 at the time Brook fought them?

you have to remember Khan was the Olympian so is always going to be the one who would get all the chances first, he completely missed out on the actual domestic route, which Brook took care of before moving on.

all the fights of Khans you named except 2or3 were world title fights which brook has only had 1 world title fight, which was against a legitimate World Champion who most said would stop him in 6 rounds.

I think hes done pretty well to be fair

Khan has fought stiffer competition but he's also been KO'd twice, barely survived to the final bell against Maidana, and barely beat a mediocre Julio Diaz. Plus you have to remember he took a 2 year break from fighting anyone decent after Garcia KO'd him.

Khan has a more impressive overall career but Brook has definitely had the more impressive last couple of years.

Its all relative. In 2015 a guy in Kell's position probably only needs to fight one or two guys that'd be considered threats to beat him on his way to winning a title & that one guy could be the title holder. When you got 4 titles thats just kinda the way things work out. So you could look at it either way.

jujigatame wrote:Khan has fought stiffer competition but he's also been KO'd twice, barely survived to the final bell against Maidana, and barely beat a mediocre Julio Diaz. Plus you have to remember he took a 2 year break from fighting anyone decent after Garcia KO'd him.

Khan has a more impressive overall career but Brook has definitely had the more impressive last couple of years.

i agree comparing there last few fights, Porter win is more impressive than beating Devon

I'm a fan of both fighters, but I don't really think either man has done it 'the hard way' to be honest.... If you're a good British fighter and have a bit of a fan base + a promotional team behind you, then you have the luxury of time, cherry picking good spots for yourself and earning decent pay days fighting at home against mediocre opposition. I'm not having a dig at either of them, that's just the way it is. We aren't a huge boxing nation, but there is good money in the sport and both Khan and Brook have had plenty of benefits that other fights wouldn't have had..... Its not like Brook has been on the road his whole career fighting for short money in the middle of nowhere trying to catch a break or having to take fights at short notice against proven opposition just to get his shot.

jujigatame wrote:Khan has fought stiffer competition but he's also been KO'd twice, barely survived to the final bell against Maidana, and barely beat a mediocre Julio Diaz. Plus you have to remember he took a 2 year break from fighting anyone decent after Garcia KO'd him.

Khan has a more impressive overall career but Brook has definitely had the more impressive last couple of years.

Who cares if he barely survived against Maidana, he took on the biggest puncher in the division and didn't go down...and he won the fight. I love how some people try and discredit every achievement of his.

In the last two years Khan has boxed, and beaten, three former World Champions. Brook beat a limited World champ, and a former champ who got KO'd by Malignaggi, along with a load of meaningless fights.

Brook has done it in the hard way in the sense that he had to have over 30 fights before getting a title shot, but if you consistently fight low grade fighters then you are going to struggle to get a shot. He is very lucky that the boxing rankings for the four main titles are flawed, or else he would have had to have gone through a few harder tests before getting his shot.

Khan hasn't really ducked anyone in the past, and has fought a lot of excellent fighters. You can't use his Olympic past as a reason for him not having to do it the hard way because the process to become an Olympian, and the ability to get to the gold medal match would have taken a lot of hard work.

It's a shame that people have to choose between Khan and Brook, it's like you're not allowed to admire both. Khan has had the better career so far and his achievements are slighted by people for silly reasons. Brook stepped up and beat a decent world level fighter but so far Khan has beat the better quality men. A bout between the 2 would be excellent and both would have their moments; I think Khan is really settling into the weight though and he really has learned some hard lessons - he's become a well versed boxer at a high level.

Against Porter, he was 2:1 underdog, fighting against strong champion in his country. I think it is hard way.

Batley, you're overreacting a bit. I'm not trying to "discredit every achievement". Maidana is a good victory on his record, I was just pointing out that it wasn't a super emphatic win. If anything I'd say you are implicitly exaggerating the quality of his recent opponents by describing them as "three former World Champions" when two of them (especially Diaz) were past it.

Both are very good fighters, I just think Brook has had a stronger couple of years.

Khan took some hammer from Maidana and did wobble, we could say though that he showed great heart in fighting through the storm - he didn't run or hold and he dropped Marcos very hard - something not very many are able to do.

Rogers21 wrote:you have to remember Khan was the Olympian so is always going to be the one who would get all the chances first, he completely missed out on the actual domestic route, which Brook took care of before moving on.

all the fights of Khans you named except 2or3 were world title fights which brook has only had 1 world title fight, which was against a legitimate World Champion who most said would stop him in 6 rounds.

I think hes done pretty well to be fair

Limond, Earl, Lawton and Gomez.

They are both at least as deserving as anyone else at 147. Brook hasn't exactly beat a murderers row to get there, but who has?

He fought Porter after everyone was hyping him up as a superstar in his own country. Good enough for me.

expe wrote:

Rogers21 wrote:you have to remember Khan was the Olympian so is always going to be the one who would get all the chances first, he completely missed out on the actual domestic route, which Brook took care of before moving on.

all the fights of Khans you named except 2or3 were world title fights which brook has only had 1 world title fight, which was against a legitimate World Champion who most said would stop him in 6 rounds.

I think hes done pretty well to be fair

Limond, Earl, Lawton and Gomez.

Also while Khan never won the British he did win the Commonwealth when stopping Lomond and Brook never won that title

Going to the States and turning over a decent title holder is impressive. His journey there hasn't been spectacular but he's there now, which is what matters. Hopefully he has a decent few defences against some good opponents.

I think if you just consider accomplishments at welterweight, Brook has a better resume. If you consider some of Khan's lighterweight wins, there is that argument. Settle it in the ring.

Senchenko only had one loss, and recently KO'd Hatton in his comeback. Jennings only had two losses, and lost a title bout to Cotto the year before. Lovemore Ndou was good enough opponent for Canelo, and Brook beat him less than a year later. Matthew Hatton also fought Canelo, and was beaten by Brook. I'm not too familiar with Carson Jones. Porter was definitely his best win though.
He did what he had to do, and beat the guy that had the title. Khan talks like all titles are meaningless right now, but probably because he doesn't have one. He knows if Brook beats him his stock drops big time. He won't even be able to say he is the best welter in the UK. The risk equals the reward I think in this case, because Brook is the world champ.

fergusg wrote:I think that Kell Brook is a fairly decent fighter, but his rise to the top had more to do with a process of elimination than a meteoric rise driven by pure talent and in-ring performances.

Kell Brook has been a professional boxer for 10½ years, became the mandatory challenger for Manny Pacquiao’s WBO belt in March 2010… turned down opportunities to fight Timothy Bradley (for his WBO title); Cornelius Bundrage (for his IBF light-middleweight title); and also withdrew from a world title shot against Devon Alexander… the only notable victory on his resume has come against Shawn Porter.

Vyacheslav Senchenko, Matthew Hatton and Carson Jones were almost certainly second-tier opponents and weren’t ranked by Boxrec.com amongst the top-30 at 147lbs!

I don’t dislike Kell Brook in any way… and I hope he does well, but it does seem rather strange that his career has been progressed at a snail’s pace!

"Did Kell Brook really earn it the 'hard' way?" Absolutely not! He hasn’t been “gifted” anything, but it does seem as though he took the path of least resistance!

truth

I remember Khan saying he would fight Brook if Brook beat Porter, but said Brook didn't have the "bottle" to fight someone like Porter. Instead, Brook beat Porter. Khan ends up the one that wouldn't fight Porter. Instead, he fought the guy Porter beat down, and somehow thinks his win is better than Brooks, and Brook is still not on his level.

Just because you say you are on a higher level, doesn't mean you are there. Khan will have to beat Brook to rise above him, until then, he is below.

Brook had a few unlucky injuries that prevented him from getting here sooner. He wanted to fight anyone, and he clearly defeated Porter, who at the time, was the best fighter at 147 outside of the top guys.

If he didn't get injured preparing for Alexander and Khan wasn't being such a bitch, Brook would have arrived earlier.

ArmaanCFC wrote:Kell keeps banging on about how he has earned the shot vs the big guys the hard way. But the question is, has he really? Brook has fought 33 times and the most notable fighters from that bunch are;

Shawn Porter (Good fighter and a well deserved victory)
Vyacheslav Senchenko (Former world champ, biggest fight coming against Malignaggi, not a real contender)
Carson Jones x2 (Ranked 55 in the world, not an elite fighter)
Hector David Saldivia (Ranked 112, a paper fighter with a good record)

Bear in mind these are 5 fights from 33 and some of them aren't even challenging fights...

On the other hand fighters like Amir Khan who has had the same amount of fights and has fought the likes of; Kotelnik, Barrera, Malignaggi, Maidana, Judah, Peterson, Garcia, Collazo and Alexander.

So you guys be the judge.

Would probably be more appropriate to compare their opponents before becoming champion. Brook may yet go on to defend his belt against opposition at the level Judah, Malignaggi, Maidana, Judah, Garcia etc.

Before Khan became champion, the names on his list were the likes of an ancient Barrera, Michael Gomez, Gairy St Clair, Willie Limond etc.

Khan got there quicker and had a higher profile route to becoming champion, but whether or not it was easier is open to debate. His opponents since becoming champion definitely can't be called into question.

Cent0089 wrote:Against Porter, he was 2:1 underdog, fighting against strong champion in his country. I think it is hard way.

Which is what Brook meant when he said he had done it the hard way.

Beating a champ in his own backyard is doing it the hard way.

I wouldn't say kell has had it hard it's not like he had to go to Italy or Germany to fight a local in his back yard or he's been brought in short notice, Kelly has had it a lot easier than say Steve Robinson had to get a title fight

Rogers21 wrote:you have to remember Khan was the Olympian so is always going to be the one who would get all the chances first, he completely missed out on the actual domestic route, which Brook took care of before moving on.

all the fights of Khans you named except 2or3 were world title fights which brook has only had 1 world title fight, which was against a legitimate World Champion who most said would stop him in 6 rounds.

I think hes done pretty well to be fair

I like this and I think it's on point. Brook has done what was expected of him at this point but no one expected him to win vs Porter, on the other side of the coin Khan has mostly failed miserably and has one good decent win recently vs Alexander (who Brook beat the man who beat him in Porter).

Khan should just stop making excuses and prove that Kell isn't in his league if this is what he believes, otherwise he just comes off like he's making excuses to continue ducking.