BoxRec

In a bit of a coup for Liverpool University, an important Black British History conferences is to take place in the Leggate Theatre at the Victoria Gallery & Museum (the original red brick University building on Ashton Street) on Thursday February 19. Topics covered include gender, education, local history and sport - and it is in this latter category that I will be presenting a paper on the Colour Bar in British boxing (which itself will have some interesting local history stories that have never been covered by local/regional media before).

As many of you will know, the colour bar lasted from 1911-1947 and meant that non-whte boxers were not allowed to cotest British titles. At first this was a semi-official (NSC) and then (from 1929 - BBBoC) official ban that although contested on a number of ocassions during this period, was upheld by the highest levels of Government and the establishment. The ban impacted on a number of individuals at the time, including Johnson v Wells, Siki v Beckett, Siki v Carpentier, Len Johnson, Larry Gains, Tommy Martin, Manuel Abrew, and Richie Kid Tanner - a black boxer from British Guinea who settled in Liverpool (where he married and raised a family) in 1938 and who was ranked - between 1939-41 - in the top boxers in the world at flyweight.

Richie was covered in my second Mersey Fighters boxing book in 2007 whilst I have also written seven biographies of pre-2WW black British boxers for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Overseen by academics at Oxford University and published once every 10 years, thios publication includes the biographies of the most important men and women who have shaped British history and culture, worldwide, from the Romans to the 21st century.

My presentation is one of only eight on the day and if you fancy attending then it'd be good to see you there - unfortunately its not free but early bird prices can be purchased in the following link and they will let you see all the other talks, get you coffee, biscuits, lunch and also allow you to attend the post conference debate etc

Ta
Gary Shaw

http://store.london.ac.uk/browse/extra_ ... prodid=829

https://www.facebook.com/BlackBritHist

sounds good, shame i'm too far away to attend

Yawn.....

reggaereggae wrote:Yawn.....

Not interested in boxing history?

Stick to the Sunday Sport.

A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

Here you go, time for a trivia question folks - who was the first immigrant to fight for the British title?

Off the top of my head didn't Sam Langford, a Canadian, fight Bill Lang in England for the Empire heavyweight title in 1911 or thereabouts?

Cap wrote:Off the top of my head didn't Sam Langford, a Canadian, fight Bill Lang in England for the Empire heavyweight title in 1911 or thereabouts?

I am not sure without checking the records, he may have done - but the first immigrant came from a non-English speaking country that wasn't part of the Commonwealth (big clue there!)

And without being dead pedantic - Bunny Sterling was a British subject - so he may have been the first foreign born fighter to win the British title (but then, didn't Ben Foord win the British title? he might have just been Commonwealth champiion) but even if Foord did win the British title, he would have been a British subject anyway so neither are immigrants as they were both born as subjects of the King.

All for debate of course!

Old bones Ian wrote:sounds good, shame i'm too far away to attend

x2

Fat Git wrote:

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

Here you go, time for a trivia question folks - who was the first immigrant to fight for the British title?

Nobody knows the answer? Most of you lot and your boxing knowledge stops at Nigel Benn, next time, I will
make a trivia question around Nigel Benn.

First immigrant to fight for a British title was Danish born Martin Hansen who challenged Pat McAteer for the
British and Commonwealth middleweight titles in 1957. He was also known as 'The Liverpool Dane'

Fat Git wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

Here you go, time for a trivia question folks - who was the first immigrant to fight for the British title?

Nobody knows the answer? Most of you lot and your boxing knowledge stops at Nigel Benn, next time, I will
make a trivia question around Nigel Benn.

First immigrant to fight for a British title was Danish born Martin Hansen who challenged Pat McAteer for the
British and Commonwealth middleweight titles in 1957. He was also known as 'The Liverpool Dane'

interviewed his family - his biog is in mersey fighters 1

Fat Git wrote:

Cap wrote:Off the top of my head didn't Sam Langford, a Canadian, fight Bill Lang in England for the Empire heavyweight title in 1911 or thereabouts?

I am not sure without checking the records, he may have done - but the first immigrant came from a non-English speaking country that wasn't part of the Commonwealth (big clue there!)

And without being dead pedantic - Bunny Sterling was a British subject - so he may have been the first foreign born fighter to win the British title (but then, didn't Ben Foord win the British title? he might have just been Commonwealth champiion) but even if Foord did win the British title, he would have been a British subject anyway so neither are immigrants as they were both born as subjects of the King.

All for debate of course!

first black british champ was andrew jeptha - black south african - his biog is one of rarest books going - only one known to exist i believe. he used to sell on street in SA - had first fight uk in liverpool - and last - when he was pretty much blind - there was a big collection for him here organised by nsc and boxing news - he bought tobacconists with money but lost it and moved back to SA

langford v lang was feb 1911 - no problem with black v white fights then as long as not for bigger titles (think it was billed as english anyway not empire) i cover that a bit in my paper - theres video of the fight on youtube - and langford training - lang is battered all over the shop tbh. few months later was johnson v billy wells - 10k tickets sold and johnson getting $30k but furore around it - incl most of establishment, anglican church, baden powell, archbishop of canterbury and a young churchill (who was home secretary and (this months eulogising notwithstanding) a man who was as sure of his class's and races' superiority over 'lesser' ones (he did advocate gassing of what he called 'primitive tribes' of course) and who agreed with the motives of those criticising the fight - although he didn't (contrary to popular opinion) ban the fight - he was relieved it didn't happen.

ben foord was south african and held the british title - more importantly he was white. larry gains beat him when he was reigning brit champ but only fought for empire title. gains was canadian and had lived in uk longer than ford i think. but gains was black.

Fat Git wrote:

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

Here you go, time for a trivia question folks - who was the first immigrant to fight for the British title?

andrew jeptha. as discussed above - first non colonial was hansen - good spot that.

showing how the amateur ranks was dominated by the upper classes and not the game many think it was - i.e. like today - with loads of working class kids taking part etc - it wasn't until 1910/11 that an aba champ went on to win a british title - the abas had been going for near 30 years by then and were dominated by the semi-aristocracy - working class men were too busy working to take part in fights for no money then!

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

turpin was first black british born - which is the point of the paper - you wouldn't have had sterling if you hadn't had had dick turpin.

the ruling was that 'contestants for british titles have to be british and born of white parents.'

quite shocking really.

stafford bartons death in 44 over italy (with raf) was the beginning of the end for the ban.

merseybox wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

Cap wrote:Off the top of my head didn't Sam Langford, a Canadian, fight Bill Lang in England for the Empire heavyweight title in 1911 or thereabouts?

I am not sure without checking the records, he may have done - but the first immigrant came from a non-English speaking country that wasn't part of the Commonwealth (big clue there!)

And without being dead pedantic - Bunny Sterling was a British subject - so he may have been the first foreign born fighter to win the British title (but then, didn't Ben Foord win the British title? he might have just been Commonwealth champiion) but even if Foord did win the British title, he would have been a British subject anyway so neither are immigrants as they were both born as subjects of the King.

All for debate of course!

first black british champ was andrew jeptha - black south african - his biog is one of rarest books going - only one known to exist i believe. he used to sell on street in SA - had first fight uk in liverpool - and last - when he was pretty much blind - there was a big collection for him here organised by nsc and boxing news - he bought tobacconists with money but lost it and moved back to SA

langford v lang was feb 1911 - no problem with black v white fights then as long as not for bigger titles (think it was billed as english anyway not empire) i cover that a bit in my paper - theres video of the fight on youtube - and langford training - lang is battered all over the shop tbh. few months later was johnson v billy wells - 10k tickets sold and johnson getting $30k but furore around it - incl most of establishment, anglican church, baden powell, archbishop of canterbury and a young churchill (who was home secretary and (this months eulogising notwithstanding) a man who was as sure of his class's and races' superiority over 'lesser' ones (he did advocate gassing of what he called 'primitive tribes' of course) and who agreed with the motives of those criticising the fight - although he didn't (contrary to popular opinion) ban the fight - he was relieved it didn't happen.

ben foord was south african and held the british title - more importantly he was white. larry gains beat him when he was reigning brit champ but only fought for empire title. gains was canadian and had lived in uk longer than ford i think. but gains was black.

Nice read Merseybox - thanks!

merseybox wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

bennie wrote:A lot of people think Dick Turpin was the first immigrant to win a British title. In fact it was Bunny Sterling, many moons later.

Here you go, time for a trivia question folks - who was the first immigrant to fight for the British title?

andrew jeptha. as discussed above - first non colonial was hansen - good spot that.

That was what I was saying (thought admittedly, I didn't know about Jeptha, thanks for the background about him ) Even though Jeptha was born overseas, he was still a British subject/citizen if he was born in South Africa so would that make him an immigrant? All for debate of course.