BoxRec

lets you you are a great boxer, a great prospect. an olympic gold with big hype behind you. can you make your first pro fights, first cards without a promotion company.

the question that i ask myself is, that when you enter boxing you have 0 $, so how you are going to make a card involving you as main event and than go on from fight to fight.

does you need a promotion company to promote your fights, or is a manager who can speak well enough? and the money question. i think ones you had 15-20 and than make good money fights, than there is 0 problem promoting yourself without promoter etc., but the beginning seems hard without promotion company. whats your take?

some boxers arent contracted and are paid per fight. eg dillian whyte HW in uk. has no promoter so allows him to fight frequently.

it might be possible but it will be hard because the established promotors fight against self promotion. in the beginning DLH and the klits have been fought by promotors too, they don't like if a boxer does this because they don't want other boxers to emulate that.

you might have a hard time getting enough fights that way.

When you are starting out I don't think you reasonably can. Its possible, but I believe it'd be hard & you'd probably have periods of inactivity which to a improving talent isn't ideal.

For an elite level guy I think the ideal way to go about it would be getting those first 4 years in with a promoter. Top guys usually win a title within 4 years. Then if you are an exciting p4p caliber guy I think you can work on a fight by fight basis from there with a highest bidder per fight type of outlook. You'd definitely wanna have a good manager or shoutout to Al Haymon an advisor watching out for you. If you aren't the most exciting guy or not a p4p caliber guy I think you'd probably need to stick with a promoter who'd be contractually obliged to getting you fights for a couple years longer.

When it'd be best to switch over is debatable. I think Floyd timed it about right. Miguel maybe timed it a lil late or about right. I think Manny had probably timed it right soon after Floyd if he had done it. Floyd basically broke the glass ceiling on that for guys nowadays. Amir could do it now & maybe he is idk. I think a guy like Keith Thurman is about a year or 2 from doing it if he wanted to & he improves as many expect him too. Guys like Andre & Guillermo who are high level cats might have a harder time or to wait longer as they aren't really that exciting to most fans or drum up a lot of PR outside the ring or controversy.

ReggieDiggs wrote:When you are starting out I don't think you reasonably can. Its possible, but I believe it'd be hard & you'd probably have periods of inactivity which to a improving talent isn't ideal.

For an elite level guy I think the ideal way to go about it would be getting those first 4 years in with a promoter. Top guys usually win a title within 4 years. Then if you are an exciting p4p caliber guy I think you can work on a fight by fight basis from there with a highest bidder per fight type of outlook. You'd definitely wanna have a good manager or shoutout to Al Haymon an advisor watching out for you. If you aren't the most exciting guy or not a p4p caliber guy I think you'd probably need to stick with a promoter who'd be contractually obliged to getting you fights for a couple years longer.

When it'd be best to switch over is debatable. I think Floyd timed it about right. Miguel maybe timed it a lil late or about right. I think Manny had probably timed it right soon after Floyd if he had done it. Floyd basically broke the glass ceiling on that for guys nowadays. Amir could do it now & maybe he is idk. I think a guy like Keith Thurman is about a year or 2 from doing it if he wanted to & he improves as many expect him too. Guys like Andre & Guillermo who are high level cats might have a harder time or to wait longer as they aren't really that exciting to most fans or drum up a lot of PR outside the ring or controversy.

but how exactly doyou get a fight without a promotion company.

lets say everything is great, saying you are an exciting top level p4p superstar and people bring bucks watching you fight. the ideal situation.

but how exactly do you make a fightcard, when you just have a advisor or manager behind you, but not a promotion company, because a promotion company consist of many boxers and than you can make a card, with 6 undercard fights and you as a main event.

you get what i am saying. lets say floyd is his own boss and only has haymon, lets say manny left bob and is also his own boss. lets say both down have fighter or a promotion company, so how exactly do you get 12 fights, 6 vs 6 to have your undercard.

I mean, floyd should be so damn thankfull that there is golden boy promotion, because they fill in the undercard with their fighters and they give floyd the main event match up.

its just complicated......

so if you work alone, you have to take the undercard from the promoter you fight against, i mean his boxer.

Audley Harrison Turned pro withouth a promoter i belive , BBC Threw money at him and ultimatley it was a disaster.

Chepppaaa wrote:lets you you are a great boxer, a great prospect. an olympic gold with big hype behind you. can you make your first pro fights, first cards without a promotion company.

the question that i ask myself is, that when you enter boxing you have 0 $, so how you are going to make a card involving you as main event and than go on from fight to fight.

does you need a promotion company to promote your fights, or is a manager who can speak well enough? and the money question. i think ones you had 15-20 and than make good money fights, than there is 0 problem promoting yourself without promoter etc., but the beginning seems hard without promotion company. whats your take?

The vast majority of boxers turn pro with no promoter...

punchy1 wrote:The vast majority of boxers turn pro with no promoter...

And the vast majority of boxers fight infrequently at best & go nowhere in their boxing career. If you are a talent in the sport & wanna go somewhere you wanna be aligned with a promoter with how the current boxing world is setup.

ray leonard was a free agent his whole career.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray_Leonard

"When Leonard decided to turn professional, Janks Morton introduced him to Mike Trainer, a friend of his who was an attorney. Trainer talked twenty-four of his friends and clients into underwriting Leonard's career with an investment of $21,000 to be repaid within four years at 8% interest. Trainer then made Leonard the sole stockholder in Sugar Ray Leonard, Inc. Angelo Dundee, Muhammad Ali's trainer, was brought in to be Leonard's trainer and manager. Many of the people being considered wanted absolute control and a cut somewhere near the manager's traditional 33%. Dundee had a different proposition. Although he would prescribe the training procedures, he would leave the day-to-day work to Dave Jacobs and Janks Morton. He would also choose Leonard's opponents. For his services, Dundee would get 15% of Leonard's purse.[18]

Leonard made his professional debut on February 5, 1977 before a crowd of 10,270 at the Civic Center in Baltimore, Maryland. He was paid $40,044 for the fight. His opponent was Luis "The Bull" Vega, whom he defeated by a six-round unanimous decision.[19] After the fight, Leonard paid back his $21,000 loan to the investors"

that $21k was worth a lot more back then, and of course he had sponsors also.
i think trainer had a promoters license and they worked with smaller promoters to stage cards early
on and leonards brother, a former national amateur champ, fought on some of the undercards.
arum promoted his fight with hagler and i think the first with hearns also, but leonard never
had a multi-fight contract with any promoter, and many of his purses broke records and he
made well over $100million in purses. compare that to hagler who fought lots of fights for $500
in armories and high school gyms and other small venues and didn't get a title shot until his 46th
fight after 6 years as a pro with lots of top names on his record already.

As long as you can sell tickets, or give the promoter publicity to make money in some form, you can usually get fights that you are the "A" side in. A lot of guys start their career with no promoter, but move tickets well, thus can be advanced the right way.

sucracristo wrote:ray leonard was a free agent his whole career.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray_Leonard

"When Leonard decided to turn professional, Janks Morton introduced him to Mike Trainer, a friend of his who was an attorney. Trainer talked twenty-four of his friends and clients into underwriting Leonard's career with an investment of $21,000 to be repaid within four years at 8% interest. Trainer then made Leonard the sole stockholder in Sugar Ray Leonard, Inc. Angelo Dundee, Muhammad Ali's trainer, was brought in to be Leonard's trainer and manager. Many of the people being considered wanted absolute control and a cut somewhere near the manager's traditional 33%. Dundee had a different proposition. Although he would prescribe the training procedures, he would leave the day-to-day work to Dave Jacobs and Janks Morton. He would also choose Leonard's opponents. For his services, Dundee would get 15% of Leonard's purse.[18]

Leonard made his professional debut on February 5, 1977 before a crowd of 10,270 at the Civic Center in Baltimore, Maryland. He was paid $40,044 for the fight. His opponent was Luis "The Bull" Vega, whom he defeated by a six-round unanimous decision.[19] After the fight, Leonard paid back his $21,000 loan to the investors"

that $21k was worth a lot more back then, and of course he had sponsors also.
i think trainer had a promoters license and they worked with smaller promoters to stage cards early
on and leonards brother, a former national amateur champ, fought on some of the undercards.
arum promoted his fight with hagler and i think the first with hearns also, but leonard never
had a multi-fight contract with any promoter, and many of his purses broke records and he
made well over $100million in purses. compare that to hagler who fought lots of fights for $500
in armories and high school gyms and other small venues and didn't get a title shot until his 46th
fight after 6 years as a pro with lots of top names on his record already.

so what you saying is.

sugar had an manager and he was in contact with lets say 1 small time promoter and he made small cards with him.
and so did he with other small time promoters.
and thats how he build sugar reputation and later big time promoters wanted to work with sugar because they
wanted to put their guys infront of sugar because sugar was known selling tickets.

Chepppaaa wrote:and thats how he build sugar reputation and later big time promoters wanted to work with sugar because they
wanted to put their guys infront of sugar because sugar was known selling tickets.

leonard was a star coming out of the 76 olympics, already. he could fill an arena with over 10,000 seats
in his first fight and attract local tv at least and sponsors. a novice pro would normally need to appear
on a card staged by a promoter as a 4 round walk-in bout, and often that boxer would be more likely
to get scheduled on that card if he sold tickets in advance to justify putting him on the card, but he
would definitely be dependent on a promoter to stage an event that he could get on. there are probably
10x as many licensed boxers as there are spots on cards, so it's really not hard for promoters to find
novice willing to fight for $100-$150 a round. remember, the boxer pays a corner and trainer and
equipment and gym fees and expenses out of that money so even if he fights a few times a year
it's basically just a hobby that gets him beat up a lot. if he can gets some wins and fight more rounds
against better opposition higher up on a card, especially if he draws a crowd and has sponsors, he can
make more, but he would still need a day job as a primary income, hopefully working as a trainer or coach
or something that keeps him around the gym or at least doesn't ware him out. it's not really until he can
regularly headline televised cards where he might make enough off purses for it to be a primary income
for as long as it lasts, but even then many of those guys sell thousands of tickets directly to their followers.
leonard with mike trainer behind him was already far beyond most well established pros before his first fight.

so basicly the dream scenario is, you got david beckham looks and prime jones ability, you come straight from a olympic gold win and people already know you and from the 1 fight you attract crowds and work together with promoters but you aint part of a promotion, like floyd does, he does business with gb but he aint part of golden boy.

okay now i get it better and you totaly, promoters will get some dudes and just pay them for some rounds and thats basicly it.

i don't even think an olympic gold is worth what it used to be. leonard won his
gold in montreal, so was competing live before a north american audience
with howard coselle fawning over him and he was kind of a media darling on
a really successful team (spinks brothers, howard davis jr, leo randolf all
won gold, with charles mooney taking silver and john tate bronze).
back then there was only one channel with the olympics on it and everyone
was watching. now, olympic boxing is on the back channels or i think streaming.
it will be interesting to see the new format in rio next year and see if it helps
bring back interest, and what the new crop of olympians and top amateurs who
don't qualify look like, but when leonard turned pro it was almost like a once in an
era scenario.
at this point i think only one or two of haymon's fighters, many of them world class,
still have GB promotional contracts and are just playing them out until free agency.
i think haymon has arrangements with warriors, lou dibella, and maybe goosen
to use their licenses to stage cards, the way mayweather used GB.

sucracristo wrote:i don't even think an olympic gold is worth what it used to be. leonard won his
gold in montreal, so was competing live before a north american audience
with howard coselle fawning over him and he was kind of a media darling on
a really successful team (spinks brothers, howard davis jr, leo randolf all
won gold, with charles mooney taking silver and john tate bronze).
back then there was only one channel with the olympics on it and everyone
was watching. now, olympic boxing is on the back channels or i think streaming.
it will be interesting to see the new format in rio next year and see if it helps
bring back interest, and what the new crop of olympians and top amateurs who
don't qualify look like, but when leonard turned pro it was almost like a once in an
era scenario.
at this point i think only one or two of haymon's fighters, many of them world class,
still have GB promotional contracts and are just playing them out until free agency.
i think haymon has arrangements with warriors, lou dibella, and maybe goosen
to use their licenses to stage cards, the way mayweather used GB.

so the best way to make a career if your a very good amateur is not to have a promoter, because you gonne give to much money away,
but have a good manager who works with different promoters to make events happening.

Chepppaaa wrote: so the best way to make a career if your a very good amateur is not to have a promoter, because you gonne give to much money away,
but have a good manager who works with different promoters to make events happening.

that's how it's going to be for for 99% of rookie pros whether they choose it or not.
from a promoter's perspective, if you are going to be staging regular cards and want
to establish a dependable fanbase, compare the two ads:

1) soccer match at blabla stadium on blabla date, teams to be annouced

2) soccer battle between the the minneapolis murderers and your hometown heros the
hartford hellcats in their quest for the muccullough chainsaw testosterone trophy!!
bring the wife and kids to witness the slaughter! (free beer)

whether the promoter has a contract with them or not, it would be good to have relationships
with entertaining boxers who can help sell tickets, generally talented but more importantly
boxers who can inspire people to get off their couches and show up to the events. that is
why promoters sign boxers to help sell their cards.

the reason the boxer would sign is because they are guaranteed a spot on several cards at
a certain pay and can often get more favorable matches and more visibility. generally that pay
is not less than what another promoter would pay them. as in all sports, it really isn't the athletes
in the end who make the sport. it is the people who serve the sport to the public. people may cheer
for the stars of the premier league, nfl, nba, mlb, nhl, but only because they made it to those leagues
and perform at a high level. without the leagues, most would be working in cubicles or selling used
cars. whether or not it's worth it to sign a multi-fight deal with a promoter depends on that boxer's
other options. if a young athlete gets enough money dropped in front of them, they won't usually
even read a contract before signing it. i see lots of people sign contracts they don't need to sign
for no real benefit almost every day, and if there is a big check sitting there most younger people
will sign. i heard the reason de la hoya and arum wound up in court over pacquiao is because
de la hoya had arranged to pick pac up in a limo at the airport when he was going to be in town
for something, saying he wanted to discuss business, and de la hoya opened a suitcase with
$1million cash in it and pac signed the contract and walked away with the suitcase, and then
the big court battle between the promoters.

sucracristo wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote: so the best way to make a career if your a very good amateur is not to have a promoter, because you gonne give to much money away,
but have a good manager who works with different promoters to make events happening.

that's how it's going to be for for 99% of rookie pros whether they choose it or not.
from a promoter's perspective, if you are going to be staging regular cards and want
to establish a dependable fanbase, compare the two ads:

1) soccer match at blabla stadium on blabla date, teams to be annouced

2) soccer battle between the the minneapolis murderers and your hometown heros the
hartford hellcats in their quest for the muccullough chainsaw testosterone trophy!!
bring the wife and kids to witness the slaughter! (free beer)

whether the promoter has a contract with them or not, it would be good to have relationships
with entertaining boxers who can help sell tickets, generally talented but more importantly
boxers who can inspire people to get off their couches and show up to the events. that is
why promoters sign boxers to help sell their cards.

the reason the boxer would sign is because they are guaranteed a spot on several cards at
a certain pay and can often get more favorable matches and more visibility. generally that pay
is not less than what another promoter would pay them. as in all sports, it really isn't the athletes
in the end who make the sport. it is the people who serve the sport to the public. people may cheer
for the stars of the premier league, nfl, nba, mlb, nhl, but only because they made it to those leagues
and perform at a high level. without the leagues, most would be working in cubicles or selling used
cars. whether or not it's worth it to sign a multi-fight deal with a promoter depends on that boxer's
other options. if a young athlete gets enough money dropped in front of them, they won't usually
even read a contract before signing it. i see lots of people sign contracts they don't need to sign
for no real benefit almost every day, and if there is a big check sitting there most younger people
will sign. i heard the reason de la hoya and arum wound up in court over pacquiao is because
de la hoya had arranged to pick pac up in a limo at the airport when he was going to be in town
for something, saying he wanted to discuss business, and de la hoya opened a suitcase with
$1million cash in it and pac signed the contract and walked away with the suitcase, and then
the big court battle between the promoters.

oscar realy did this hahaaha