BoxRec

koolkc107 wrote:In a way, Floyd has brought this thinking on himself. The "Money" persona has many, sportswriters among them, thinking all he has to do is unilaterally dictate terms and a fight will happen. Here's Kevin Iole (generally supportive of Mayweather) falling into the same flawed thinking:

...But as the unquestioned A-side, it should be easy for Mayweather to bring these talks to a conclusion.

All he needs to do is create a term sheet with the major points, most of which the sides have reportedly agreed upon:

• The financial split between the fighters.

• The date and venue of the fight, and the price of tickets.

• Details of how the fight will be promoted, including the dates of any press conferences and press tours.

• The type of gloves each man will wear.

• The order in which the fighters will walk to the ring and be introduced before the fight.

Once those points are written out, all Mayweather has to do is sign it and send it to Pacquiao and Top Rank.

At that point, the onus shifts to Pacquiao to accept the terms. Then, either the fight will finally be signed or each of them will move on to other opponents.

There is nothing to suggest, though, that Mayweather is going to do that. He's going to make everyone wait...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-times- ... 23126.html

Notice how this line of thinking totally dismisses the fact that HBO and Showtime are involved. Any fight made is going to have to have the networks in agreement. There is no fight if the networks don't agree since each fighter is under contract. Floyd cannot just snap his fingers and make the fight happen as some of his detractors love to think. More is involved and it is a source of constant surprise at how many folks who should know better actually do not.

I hope the fight gets made. But if it does not, we are going to be very careful who we blame this time. Not that such will happen. Many still think that after 5 years it is all or mostly Mayweather's fault- when close analysis reveals the exact opposite is more likely.

KBB wrote:This is what Arum, Manny and Freddie are banking on; if the fight doesn't get made they can simply point the finger towards Floyd and most everyone will agree that it is Mayweather's fault.

The ignorance of matchmaking/making a big fight come about is almost comical in the sense of the way the detractors point their fingers towards Floyd if it doesn't happen but at the same time "if" it does happen you won't see Mayweather getting the credit for it that he deserves.

There are people on this forum who thinks that Floyd can simply snap his fingers and "pow" the fight is made, just read the stuff from MontrealSTUPOR.

Dude is comical in how he points the finger, he never has any facts-just his own dislike for Floyd.

="HitBattousai"]Floyd hasn't helped himself throughout his career with that perspective by his choices of opponents and his actions. Just take his last three fights, catchweight fun with Canelo after saying he wouldn't do that against Cotto a few years earlier, diva last minute change to pillow gloves for Maidana, and then forces Maidana to wear those same gloves in the rematch(though at least Maidana had time to prepare with them this time). There's a ton of history like that to fall back on with Floyd. To be fair, Pacquiao has some of that in him too. But Pacquiao has shown that he's willing to fight styles/fighters that can potentially cause him problems(as demonstrated with Marquez who he wants to fight a fifth time after KTFO6). Floyd hasn't demonstrated that quality in a long time and coupled with his history of double-speak and diva-like actions, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. If he truly wants the fight and it's the network's that are holding it up, have a press conference where he and Pacquiao announce that they have agreed to their terms and want the fight, but the networks are holding it up. Simple way to bring the pressure and make the fight happen if it's the networks causing the issues. The problem is it's not the networks holding up the fight. It's Floyd.

KBB wrote:Maidana got to wear the gloves he wanted in the rematch!! Who is it that Floyd hasn't fought besides Margarito (who is a Cheater)??

If you are saying that Floyd is the problem then please show us the proof because apparently you appear to know something that no other person knows at this point and that includes Manny, Arum, Moonves, Koncz, Espinoza and Mayweather.

Please give us the answers I'm asking for.

HitBattousai wrote:As to who Floyd's avoided, the list has been gone over ad nauseum in a ton of threads so I'm not going to repeat it.

HitBattousai wrote:To your first point, no he didn't, he did however, at least get to train in the gloves he didn't want beforehand for the rematch: http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/08/mai ... r-rematch/

As to who Floyd's avoided, the list has been gone over ad nauseum in a ton of threads so I'm not going to repeat it.

And there's no proof, I'm just a fan, not an "insider" of any type. I simply make the case that given his history and the power he has, if he wants the fight and the networks are the holdup, he could make the fight happen(or at least give very a credible effort) just by bringing the public pressure on the networks in a clear manner. If Pacquiao/Arum is the problem, Floyd could do something similar, though I also demonstrated that it's unlikely that's the issue. Unfortunately, he can't do any of that because he is likely the issue.

Rodian wrote:Even if the networks agree theres no guarantee Floyd will sign off on the fight.

The brotha is scared of Pacquiao

man wrote:

HitBattousai wrote:As to who Floyd's avoided, the list has been gone over ad nauseum in a ton of threads so I'm not going to repeat it.

i feel like portraying floyd as a ducker is unjust,
especially in recent years. but it is as well true,
that he did not always have the manny or froch
attitude "bring in the best". he is on top and within
the range of possibilities he used to "manage" his
opposition.

KBB wrote:So are you honestly stating that if Maidana had worn his gloves that that would've given him the edge to beat Floyd??

You are again claiming that Floyd is the issue, to which you have absolutely ZERO proof but yet you continue to repeat it as though you do. If you are going to point out some type of Floyd's avoided list then please do so because I can guarantee that I can point out a Pacquiao avoided list too if you want to play that game.

HitBattousai wrote:Personally, I doubt it would have mattered but we'll never know because Floyd didn't allow it to happen. I pointed it out as part of the "establishing a pattern" bit with Floyd's antics which is clear from his last three freaking fights alone and because you were under the false impression that Maidana was allowed to wear his gloves in the rematch.

I'm not going to bother with the list man. Pacquiao hasn't fought everyone either, that is true. However, in my eyes he at least has shown more willingness to fight tough style matchups for himself and better opponents in my view than Floyd has. And again, there's no proof, just as there's no proof the other way. I simply make the obvious case for Floyd being the main problem and you can decide to believe that or not. If not, that's fine with me but I think you're deluding yourself.

KBB wrote:I'm deluding myself and you're the one here posting that Floyd is the main problem and yet you have NO FACTS, nothing to prove it!!

You claim Manny fought tough style match ups for himself and better opponents but you provided no list, the reason Pacquiao's matchups were so tough is because he doesn't have the style to make it look as easy as Floyd and basically they fought the same opponents at WW, the lower weights their opponent were as equal as can get.

Your problem is obvious; you are too baised to speak to this with objectivity and you have NO FACTS, NOT ONE to support your claim that Mayweather is at fault for this fight not happening right now but you will surely continue to utter your own biased and non-factual stupidity.

HitBattousai wrote:

KBB wrote:I'm deluding myself and you're the one here posting that Floyd is the main problem and yet you have NO FACTS, nothing to prove it!!

You claim Manny fought tough style match ups for himself and better opponents but you provided no list, the reason Pacquiao's matchups were so tough is because he doesn't have the style to make it look as easy as Floyd and basically they fought the same opponents at WW, the lower weights their opponent were as equal as can get.

Your problem is obvious; you are too baised to speak to this with objectivity and you have NO FACTS, NOT ONE to support your claim that Mayweather is at fault for this fight not happening right now but you will surely continue to utter your own biased and non-factual stupidity.

If Floyd actually decides to make the fight, I pick him to win by competitive decision. That's how biased I am. I just want to see the fight, and it is my opinion(which I made clear as to why complete with correcting your mistake on Maidana's gloves) that Floyd is the primary hold-up point. You disagree. That's fine. We have no conclusive evidence either way.

At the lower weights Pacquiao fought Barrera x 2, Morales x 3, and Marquez x 2. Floyd has Corrales and Castillo x 2. To be fair to Floyd, the only real elite level guy around Lightweight he could have faced is prime Mosley, and Mosley elected to move up for the better fight in DLH so that match never happened. So he at least mostly fought who he could have back then, his opposition available wasn't as good as Pac's though.

At the higher weights, since you're saying they fought mostly the same guys, factoring out shared opponents, of the non-shared opponents, Pac has Margarito, Clottey, Rios, Bradley x 2, and Algieri. Floyd has Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana x 2, and Canelo. Rios and Algieri mean nothing for Pac. Ortiz, Guerrero, and Maidana mean nothing for Floyd. So it's basically do you rate Canelo better than Bradley x 2, Margarito, and Clottey. Most reasonable fans are going to say no on that one.

davie wrote:Seriously guys, is there one thing you have said in this thread that has not been said on here 1000 times.
one argument, one statement, one case made for or against either fighter, either promoter or TV company, that has not been repeated, rehashed and recycled on a weekly basis for the last 6 years.

Give it an effing rest will you, you must be starting to bore yourself now.

HitBattousai wrote:
At the higher weights, since you're saying they fought mostly the same guys, factoring out shared opponents, of the non-shared opponents, Pac has Margarito, Clottey, Rios, Bradley x 2, and Algieri. Floyd has Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana x 2, and Canelo. Rios and Algieri mean nothing for Pac. Ortiz, Guerrero, and Maidana mean nothing for Floyd. So it's basically do you rate Canelo better than Bradley x 2, Margarito, and Clottey. Most reasonable fans are going to say no on that one.

koolkc107 wrote:

HitBattousai wrote:
At the higher weights, since you're saying they fought mostly the same guys, factoring out shared opponents, of the non-shared opponents, Pac has Margarito, Clottey, Rios, Bradley x 2, and Algieri. Floyd has Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana x 2, and Canelo. Rios and Algieri mean nothing for Pac. Ortiz, Guerrero, and Maidana mean nothing for Floyd. So it's basically do you rate Canelo better than Bradley x 2, Margarito, and Clottey. Most reasonable fans are going to say no on that one.

You serious?!?

Number one, Canelo would be favored against ANY of the remaining Pac opponents and some quite heavily.

Who, of the Pac opponents, would be a huge favorite over the guys Floyd fought at the time he fought them? None, that's who.

Yes, I would favor the Bradley pack fought twice over Ortiz, but I think Ghost and Marcos beat Bradley and convincingly.

We know 'Cheato is a fraud and wrapless, I don't give him a shot over Guerrero or Maidana either, and only a slim chance over Ortiz who, although skilled enough to rout Antonio, is not the brightest or most diligent fighter we've seen.

I think the bottom line is the proof in the pudding. Only one of the non common guys for Pac is thought of as elite or near elite: Bradley. Margs is out of boxing, Clottey is yet to be relevant again, and it is unclear whether Rios or Algieri are actually players at 147 or beyond.

By way of contrast, both Maidana and Guerrero are NOW top 10 welters.

koolkc107 wrote:

HitBattousai wrote:
At the higher weights, since you're saying they fought mostly the same guys, factoring out shared opponents, of the non-shared opponents, Pac has Margarito, Clottey, Rios, Bradley x 2, and Algieri. Floyd has Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana x 2, and Canelo. Rios and Algieri mean nothing for Pac. Ortiz, Guerrero, and Maidana mean nothing for Floyd. So it's basically do you rate Canelo better than Bradley x 2, Margarito, and Clottey. Most reasonable fans are going to say no on that one.

You serious?!?

Number one, Canelo would be favored against ANY of the remaining Pac opponents and some quite heavily.

Who, of the Pac opponents, would be a huge favorite over the guys Floyd fought at the time he fought them? None, that's who.

Yes, I would favor the Bradley pack fought twice over Ortiz, but I think Ghost and Marcos beat Bradley and convincingly.

We know 'Cheato is a fraud and wrapless, I don't give him a shot over Guerrero or Maidana either, and only a slim chance over Ortiz who, although skilled enough to rout Antonio, is not the brightest or most diligent fighter we've seen.

I think the bottom line is the proof in the pudding. Only one of the non common guys for Pac is thought of as elite or near elite: Bradley. Margs is out of boxing, Clottey is yet to be relevant again, and it is unclear whether Rios or Algieri are actually players at 147 or beyond.

By way of contrast, both Maidana and Guerrero are NOW top 10 welters.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:Cmon man, Margarito, Clottey murder Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana. Hell Rios probably ends up with a winning record vs that crew.

No way Ghost is top 10 welter. Last seen struggling vs noncontender Kamegai, and doesnt have one legit top 10 win at welter. Remember Berto was unranked

koolkc107 wrote:Judging by how Margarito has fought since he has been de-wrapped, I don't think you can say he would murder anyone since it seems at least some of his power left with the plaster.

No, I like very much Ghost's chances against him, Clottey and Rios. As for Robert against Bradley, I think Guerrero out-toughs him, gets him hurt, and unlike Provodnikov, finishes Tim. Joshua has yet to return to top level competition and Brandon is a mixed bag at best right now, although of all of Pac's opponents beside Bradley, he might have the most upside.

I only favor some slightly over Ortiz because he is a known underachiever. But again, if Victor enters the ring with the same grit and in the same shape as he was against Berto, I have a hard time picking against him versus any of the non common guys Pac has fought.

Right now Maidana is also on a different level than any of the aforementioned except Bradley.

And again, NONE of the five men who fought Pac but not Floyd beat Canelo...and most get beaten savagely.