BoxRec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fEFOoaBfs

Can some of you cats stfu about this now.

He does say he thinks if he had beaten Canelo he woulda been on Floyd's menu basically. Which makes sense to me although I think Paul was on the slide & wouldn't have beaten Canelo. He lost to Erislandy despite the official decision obviously too. His style had burned him out sooner than most guys get burned out imho.

The sad thing is that people will continue to say that Floyd ducked him even though Paul himself said that isn't true, I just had a debate with a person who said Mayweather ducked Williams, things like this won't stop.

I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

I call it a duck, even if PW himself says different.

But, this does change my opinion some...

koolkc107 wrote:I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

I call it a duck, even if PW himself says different.

But, this does change my opinion some...

See how I stated this would continue even if PW said they didn't duck him.

The sheer disregard by folks willing to stick to their guns even though they are wrong is unsurpassable.

koolkc107 wrote:I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

When would've Manny fought him exactly?

Paul fought his first notable guy at 147 (Walter Matthysse) in May 2006.
Paul won a title at 147 in July 2007.
Paul lost that title in Feb. 2008.
Paul won it back in June 2008.
Paul had his next fight Sept. 2008 at middleweight & never fought at welterweight again.
Paul never won a legit 154lb or 160lb belt & only had 8 fights half at 154, half at 160 to end his career.

To me that makes the window for this fight only at 147 from June 2006 to July 2008 (assuming he agreed to the MW fight 2 mos before it happened).

During that period of time Manny was at 130-135lbs so I think he's cool as far as this fight happening at 147. Manny didn't even have a fight at 147 til Dec. 2008 & that was vs Oscar who's a slightly bigger name than Paul. And I mean if you aren't fighting at that weight I can't be avoiding you. Manny only had 1 fight above 147 (& Manny still didn't weigh over 147 for that fight oddly enough) & that was in 2011 after Paul had been KTFO by Sergio at 160 & won a highly bogus decision over Erislandy at 154.

There is absolutely no reason Manny should've had Paul on his short list even at any point in time. And even if he had been on Manny's shortlist idk if its a duck situation as it seems as if Paul was never the best available option for Manny (or Floyd for that matter, but I'm not touching that side of this debate cuz people lose their minds about Floyd sh!t) thus if we are just saying a ducking situation is you not fighting a particular guy Manny (& Floyd) have surely ducked hundreds & thousands of guys cuz surely that many have called them out & never gotten their fight.

Nobody cares.

But don't let get in the way of Mayweather fan club, eternally dedicated defending his honour online.

fergusg wrote:At the start of 2007, Paul Williams was ranked 9th by Ring Magazine in the welterweight division… and Floyd opted to face Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton, who were both much more deserving of a super-fight against the pound-for-pound number one.

When Paul Williams eventually became a top-rated welterweight in 2008, Mayweather was considered a “retired” boxer.

In 2008, Paul Williams was pretty much an anonymous fighter that got punished in his own backyard against Carlos Quintana when he lost by a wide decision victory!

When Floyd returned to action in late 2009, ‘The Punisher’ had already made the jump to middleweight, which was two weight divisions above Mayweather's chosen weight class!

So in 2008, assuming Floyd hadn’t decided to retire, Mayweather could have either engaged in a highly-lucrative rematch against Oscar De La Hoya or forfeited this massive $20+m dollar payday in preference to fight a recently-defeated Paul Williams!

Oh sh!t Ferg dropping logic. Haters can't compete with logic so you're only mostly gonna get disses in response to this.

I wouldn't really call this a duck either.

Neither one was really on each others radar. Paul was rising and rising fast but the only people who really talked about this fight were fans.

I remember Paul mentioning maybe wanting a shot at Floyd down the line but he didn't really call him out or pursue it since he was busy with other fights(Quintana rematch etc.)

KBB wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

I call it a duck, even if PW himself says different.

But, this does change my opinion some...

See how I stated this would continue even if PW said they didn't duck him.

The sheer disregard by folks willing to stick to their guns even though they are wrong is unsurpassable.

The fact is this: PW only jumped up from 147 because he couldn't get either guy to fight him.

And up until his accident he always said he would go back down to fight either guy.

You can argue that both guys had bigger paydays in front of them, and I won't say you are wrong.

But none of those paydays at the time presented a bigger challenge than PW.

I like and respect Floyd and Manny for what they have given us in the ring.

But Paul should have got a shot at one or both and he didn't.

And those who argue there was no real time Floyd or Manny could have fought PW just aren't remembering things correctly.

PW left 147 in 2008 and didn't have his accident til 2012.

Both Floyd and Pac had fought above welter by that time.

koolkc107 wrote:The fact is this: PW only jumped up from 147 because he couldn't get either guy to fight him.

And up until his accident he always said he would go back down to fight either guy.



But Paul should have got a shot at one or both and he didn't.

And those who argue there was no real time Floyd or Manny could have fought PW just aren't remembering things correctly.

PW left 147 in 2008 and didn't have his accident til 2012.

Both Floyd and Pac had fought above welter by that time.

Yea they fought at 154 vs big name, drawing power guys. When you look at Paul's accomplishments they aren't automatically deserving of a big fight. I don't recall him being a draw. Is it arguable he deserved the biggest fights. Well sure. Victor got a shot vs Floyd & Chris just got a shot vs Manny. But its not just about that. Victor & Chris were in the right place at the right time. NEVER was Paul the top guy for either Floyd or Manny to fight. Never was he even top 2 or 3, maybe even top 5 or even further down the list for either guy imho. If you dug Paul a lot I suppose he was, but that wasn't the reality & just a bias more than a informed logical way to look at things.

And imo the "I can go down" argument is silly. Go down. Beat the best guys you can. You can't be at one weight & legit call out guys in 3 divisions & blame it on the guy not fighting a guy not in their division. To me thats not unlike Adrien calling out Manny when Adrien knows damn well that fight is almost impossible if not impossible to make due to promotional/TV issues. I don't believe thats even fair to all the guys making weight & fighting in the same division. Plus you need to put asses in seats as the B side to some degree. And maybe the most important fact is he lost to Carlos Quintana & I don't think anyone in boxing got very far losing to Carlos Quintana lol.

Ricky_ wrote:Nobody cares.

But don't let get in the way of Mayweather fan club, eternally dedicated defending his honour online.

At least the Mayweather Fan Club comes with the facts and not some stupid sh*t like "he's scared" and have nothing to prove it with.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

When would've Manny fought him exactly?

Paul fought his first notable guy at 147 (Walter Matthysse) in May 2006.
Paul won a title at 147 in July 2007.
Paul lost that title in Feb. 2008.
Paul won it back in June 2008.
Paul had his next fight Sept. 2008 at middleweight & never fought at welterweight again.
Paul never won a legit 154lb or 160lb belt & only had 8 fights half at 154, half at 160 to end his career.

To me that makes the window for this fight only at 147 from June 2006 to July 2008 (assuming he agreed to the MW fight 2 mos before it happened).

During that period of time Manny was at 130-135lbs so I think he's cool as far as this fight happening at 147. Manny didn't even have a fight at 147 til Dec. 2008 & that was vs Oscar who's a slightly bigger name than Paul. And I mean if you aren't fighting at that weight I can't be avoiding you. Manny only had 1 fight above 147 (& Manny still didn't weigh over 147 for that fight oddly enough) & that was in 2011 after Paul had been KTFO by Sergio at 160 & won a highly bogus decision over Erislandy at 154.

There is absolutely no reason Manny should've had Paul on his short list even at any point in time. And even if he had been on Manny's shortlist idk if its a duck situation as it seems as if Paul was never the best available option for Manny (or Floyd for that matter, but I'm not touching that side of this debate cuz people lose their minds about Floyd sh!t) thus if we are just saying a ducking situation is you not fighting a particular guy Manny (& Floyd) have surely ducked hundreds & thousands of guys cuz surely that many have called them out & never gotten their fight.

Your premise, though well reasoned, holds little weight when you realize Floyd had already fought at 154 against DLH, fought again at the weight in 2012 against Cotto, and Manny had fought 'Cheato for that bogus 154 lb belt in 2010.

A fight with PW at 147 or 154 was ALWAYS on the table.

Just never picked up.

koolkc107 wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:I personally think PW is one of the few guys that you can argue both Pac and Floyd could have fought but chose not to.

When would've Manny fought him exactly?

Paul fought his first notable guy at 147 (Walter Matthysse) in May 2006.
Paul won a title at 147 in July 2007.
Paul lost that title in Feb. 2008.
Paul won it back in June 2008.
Paul had his next fight Sept. 2008 at middleweight & never fought at welterweight again.
Paul never won a legit 154lb or 160lb belt & only had 8 fights half at 154, half at 160 to end his career.

To me that makes the window for this fight only at 147 from June 2006 to July 2008 (assuming he agreed to the MW fight 2 mos before it happened).

During that period of time Manny was at 130-135lbs so I think he's cool as far as this fight happening at 147. Manny didn't even have a fight at 147 til Dec. 2008 & that was vs Oscar who's a slightly bigger name than Paul. And I mean if you aren't fighting at that weight I can't be avoiding you. Manny only had 1 fight above 147 (& Manny still didn't weigh over 147 for that fight oddly enough) & that was in 2011 after Paul had been KTFO by Sergio at 160 & won a highly bogus decision over Erislandy at 154.

There is absolutely no reason Manny should've had Paul on his short list even at any point in time. And even if he had been on Manny's shortlist idk if its a duck situation as it seems as if Paul was never the best available option for Manny (or Floyd for that matter, but I'm not touching that side of this debate cuz people lose their minds about Floyd sh!t) thus if we are just saying a ducking situation is you not fighting a particular guy Manny (& Floyd) have surely ducked hundreds & thousands of guys cuz surely that many have called them out & never gotten their fight.

Your premise, though well reasoned, holds little weight when you realize Floyd had already fought at 154 against DLH, fought again at the weight in 2012 against Cotto, and Manny had fought 'Cheato for that bogus 154 lb belt in 2010.

A fight with PW at 147 or 154 was ALWAYS on the table.

Just never picked up.

Dude. Oscar WAS boxing. That was a huge fight. Floyd's popularity today is based off that fight. Miguel is/was the 3rd biggest name in the sport at that time, certainly among the top 3-5 draws in the sport. Saul is the future of boxing, like it or not. Every fight Floyd has had above 154 was a BIG fight vs a BIG draw. Antonio was a draw in his own right. I just don't recall Paul being more than a hardcore boxing fan draw.

I know some of you hardcore fans get inflated opinions of guys like Paul, but the reality was there was little to no casual fan interest in Manny vs Paul or Floyd vs Paul. If Seckbach is the only cat asking questions about a particular fight it probably doesn't have much fan interest. So sure Manny or Floyd coulda fought Paul. I mean they were all alive at the same time, but plenty of guys have been alive & around divisions with Manny or Floyd & top guys at the time & somehow some people have opinions that certain guys were ducked when there was no legit reason to fight that guy & all these other guys with similar qualifications, being a top guy, being alive, weighing approximately the same, not being a big draw, etc..

After the Margarito win Williams deserved a big fight ... then he ruins it by losing to Quintana ... then he scores a first round KO looking like Jones/Griffin II.

Bottom line. After Williams beat his monster, Arum didn't want Williams fighting any big name from TR. Williams never had the name to demand Floyd so he moved up. At 147, Paul Williams would have been trouble for anyone.

BTW, I think Williams beats Canelo. Saul couldn't handle Williams work rate. The only reason Alvarez would make it to the bell is because Williams doesn't hit hard enough.

What kills me is that detractors of Floyd will point to this guy he didn't fight and detractors of Manny will point to another guy not fought and invariably those guys supposedly ducked were not the most lucrative fight on the table either.

PW was a challenge never taken by both men.

You can't say "Floyd never fought 'Cheato" when bigger fights were on the table and made, then say PW shouldn't have got a shot because he wasn't a draw.

Does anyone think the 'Cheato that had been rolled by Mosley, been suspended a year, then had a hohum fight with Robert Garcia (not THE Robert Garcia) posed a bigger challenge to Pac than the PW who'd been life and death with Maravilla in 09 then made Cintron do his Superman act to avoid a beating?

We have to examine what we call a duck and what we don't.

koolkc107 wrote:We have to examine what we call a duck and what we don't.

I would say you need to examine what you call ducking.

Either everyone is ducking all kinds of people or extremely few people are really ducking. Cuz right now the reality is Keith Thurman is calling out Floyd along with others of course & Keith may not ever fight Floyd, but there are a dozen cats calling out Keith Thurman & others that we don't really know or aren't getting all that press when they talk & most of them will definitely not be fighting Keith. And all those guys who are calling out Keith are probably getting called out by guys under them & they probably won't be fighting those cats either.

There are so many levels in this sport. And there is so little time & opportunities to fight that its IMPOSSIBLE to fight everyone. Thus if Floyd or Keith are getting called out & Floyd or Keith fight the best possible guy available to them they are still "ducking" a bunch of cats cuz lets say 12 guys are calling out Floyd or Keith right now. Now if you avoided that #1 best possible guy today than I think its more of a debate that you could be considered a ducker, but even then its subjective & there is building up fight promoter sh!t kinda stuff going on so even then its not necessarily a straight line of logic to the best available guy.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:We have to examine what we call a duck and what we don't.

I would say you need to examine what you call ducking.

Either everyone is ducking all kinds of people or extremely few people are really ducking. Cuz right now the reality is Keith Thurman is calling out Floyd along with others of course & Keith may not ever fight Floyd, but there are a dozen cats calling out Keith Thurman & others that we don't really know or aren't getting all that press when they talk & most of them will definitely not be fighting Keith. And all those guys who are calling out Keith are probably getting called out by guys under them & they probably won't be fighting those cats either.

There are so many levels in this sport. And there is so little time & opportunities to fight that its IMPOSSIBLE to fight everyone. Thus if Floyd or Keith are getting called out & Floyd or Keith fight the best possible guy available to them they are still "ducking" a bunch of cats cuz lets say 12 guys are calling out Floyd or Keith right now. Now if you avoided that #1 best possible guy today than I think its more of a debate that you could be considered a ducker, but even then its subjective & there is building up fight promoter sh!t kinda stuff going on so even then its not necessarily a straight line of logic to the best available guy.

I know what I call a duck and what I don't.

You are a top 5 P4P guy and there are other top 5 P4P guys running around. You can fight them at a catchweigh or at your own weight. There are no promotional or network problems whatsoever, and they call you out but instead of fighting them you find someone else?

That just might be a duck...

koolkc107 wrote: I know what I call a duck and what I don't.

You are a top 5 P4P guy and there are other top 5 P4P guys running around. You can fight them at a catchweigh or at your own weight. There are no promotional or network problems whatsoever, and they call you out but instead of fighting them you find someone else?

That just might be a duck...

Lotsa fans think catchweight fights are bastard fights. I'm indifferent, but I do think your division is your division. If you wanna fight guys in higher divisions or lower divisions you go to those divisions. I don't believe its reasonable to expect a catchweight fight after you move up cuz you don't feel like you are getting fights as quick as you want them.

I think p4p lists are pretty bs so I don't care who's ranked or not ranked among them. Its a fun lil thing to throw out there when talking about guys, but I don't see much need for guys to fight other p4p guys. And iirc Paul was p4p for a minimal amount of time if thats why you're bringing that up.

In reality as a Paul fan, but not an obsessive crazyland Paul fan, I seen him gain his chance for big fights upon beating Antonio & end his chances for big fights next time out upon losing to Carlos Quintana, then his big fight ability came back a couple years later after the Sergio W only to go back away once he got KTFO by Sergio. To me the window for Paul getting big fights was more limited than I mentioned in my previous post.

koolkc107 wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:We have to examine what we call a duck and what we don't.

I would say you need to examine what you call ducking.

Either everyone is ducking all kinds of people or extremely few people are really ducking. Cuz right now the reality is Keith Thurman is calling out Floyd along with others of course & Keith may not ever fight Floyd, but there are a dozen cats calling out Keith Thurman & others that we don't really know or aren't getting all that press when they talk & most of them will definitely not be fighting Keith. And all those guys who are calling out Keith are probably getting called out by guys under them & they probably won't be fighting those cats either.

There are so many levels in this sport. And there is so little time & opportunities to fight that its IMPOSSIBLE to fight everyone. Thus if Floyd or Keith are getting called out & Floyd or Keith fight the best possible guy available to them they are still "ducking" a bunch of cats cuz lets say 12 guys are calling out Floyd or Keith right now. Now if you avoided that #1 best possible guy today than I think its more of a debate that you could be considered a ducker, but even then its subjective & there is building up fight promoter sh!t kinda stuff going on so even then its not necessarily a straight line of logic to the best available guy.

I know what I call a duck and what I don't.

You are a top 5 P4P guy and there are other top 5 P4P guys running around. You can fight them at a catchweigh or at your own weight. There are no promotional or network problems whatsoever, and they call you out but instead of fighting them you find someone else?

That just might be a duck...

Are you honestly so thick that you completely disregard the "facts" because you have a biased opinion? Floyd hasn't ducked anyone, he's missed out on 2 guys that would mean anything in the final scheme of things, those guys were Pacquiao and Tszyu, Floyd ducked neither.

NateJR wrote:
Are you honestly so thick that you completely disregard the "facts" because you have a biased opinion? Floyd hasn't ducked anyone, he's missed out on 2 guys that would mean anything in the final scheme of things, those guys were Pacquiao and Tszyu, Floyd ducked neither.

They call it Ducking. I call it Maneuvering.

Williams was RED HOT after derailing the Margarito train. THAT would've been the time to make that fight. Or after he smoked Winky Wright. Floyd wanted no parts. Paul is just being nice, because he is.

diddy wrote:Williams was RED HOT after derailing the Margarito train. THAT would've been the time to make that fight. Or after he smoked Winky Wright. Floyd wanted no parts. Paul is just being nice, because he is.

I think Ricky, Shane & Miguel were all still in front of him in line.

diddy wrote:Williams was RED HOT after derailing the Margarito train. THAT would've been the time to make that fight. Or after he smoked Winky Wright. Floyd wanted no parts. Paul is just being nice, because he is.

I'll probably get sh*t for this but I agree. Williams is in a stage of his life where he is trying to find peace with himself and be positive. He now knows he'll never fight again so it's useless and unhealthy to be running his mouth against his former fellow boxers. You could make an argument either way of who Floyd has or hasn't ducked; all I'm saying using this video as any sort of proof is insubstantial.

These quotes , interviews are pretty silly
How about asking his management , promoter , and hbo if they ever think Mayweather was ducking him?

You don't know why Paul says the things he does , it's all water under the bridge now anyway

It's like fighters tell you the toughest opponent they ever faced. And they'll list someone the won a decision against and not someone who blasted them out in a couple rounds

That being said there was a very small window I think the fight could have realistically been made


I just wouldn't state it as fact, based solely on opinion of a fighter

floyd ducked him and even said the reason. "he is too big" was the answer why floyd dont wanted him. 11:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qt89xHHKYY


but in this one i can understand floyd. dude is a natural lightweight, why should it be normal to fight a 6'3 guy.

but at the same moment i have to give credit for minimi pac to fight a giant like margarito.
5′ 6½″ against 5′ 11″, respect. 4 1/2 inches, thats big.

that would be floyd boxing a 6′ 2½″, since floyd is 5′ 8″, thats like floyd boxing a freakin ligh heavyweight in terms of size hahaah....

no serious, i can understand floyd for not boxing prime pw back than, at least he couldve fought other guys who were prime back than
like tszyu or pac.