BoxRec

In boxing today there are very few fighters who want to take on the biggest challenges available to them by fighting other champions - but more and more of the fighters who do want to challenge themselves seem to be coming from Eastern Europe and Asia.

Wladimir Klitschko, Ukraine - Dominated the HW division for nearly 10 years, has beaten every genuine challenger, holds 3/4 belts and wants to fight Wilder to become undisputed champion.

Sergey Kovalev, Russia - Goes into Cleverly's back yard to win his belt, unifies against Bernard and is now chasing Adonis who will probably try to avoid him. Again.

Artur Beterbiev, Russia - Destroyed a former world title champion (Cloud) in his 6th pro fight. Fighting Campillo (who held the WBA belt?) in his 8th fight.

Gennady Golovkin, Kazakhstan - Knocking out any MW brave enough to fight him, has repeatedly said he wants Cotto. Cotto has remained silent since beating Sergio.

Vasyl Lomachenko, Ukraine - Fought for a world title in his second fight. Won a world title in his 3rd fight. Wants to unify with Walters.

Naoya Inoue, Japan - 2 weight world champion within 8 fights.

Zou Shiming, China - Fighting for the IBF flyweight title next month in just his 7th fight.

This isn't me just hating on US/UK/any other fighters. I just don't understand why there is such a difference between Eastern and Western fighters in terms of wanting to prove themselves as the best. It's what makes boxing great but it seems to have been lost on too many fighters these days.

Bernard is an exception but he's old school. Crawford is another guy who won the title away from home, took a tough voluntary against Gamboa and then did an honourable thing in giving Ray Beltran a shot as he probably should have won the title from Ricky Burns before Crawford got his shot. But why is it so rare?

If this trend carries on the Eastern fighters will take over the sport - they are already performing well in the amateurs, within the next 10 to 20 years they will dominate professional boxing. Eastern Europe will dominate the heavier weights, Asians will dominate the lighter weights.

...no love for Kosei Tanaka who is hoping to fight for a world title in fight #5?

I suspect the difference is explained by the fact that the Asian fighters aren't pampered with $750,000 pay days for fighting Rod Salka and they don't do PPV. Of course different fighters have different reasons for doing things. Zou for example is a VERY old Flyweight so it's now or never, for the guys like Tanaka and Inoue they want to set records, and they turned pro very much "pro ready". In Thailand boxers don't get big bucks so generally need to be kept active for the pay days.

I'll admit I find the "boxing cultures" in some countries really interesting and Japan and Thailand are two of the most interesting "cultures" for boxing.

It's also worth noting how the Japanese amateur system for school boys works, it's delivering pro ready fighters on a regular basis, something that seems odd given their relative lack of success in the major amateur tournaments.

Good posts

I wish Huck-Lebedev-Drozd had that mentality so we could see some good fights at cw.

The mentality is definitely different.

It is more important for post-Soviets to be recognized as best in their area than to be recognized as getting most money (provided that they are getting good money).

This is one of reasons why Soviet scientists made so many great inventions but didn't care much to have them implemented into practice and make money (unless those inventions could be used by military in which case they sometimes were implemented).

I think its more about the amatuer experience/programs. I think most if not all of these guys are older cats, 25+ years old. I think most if not all who've had quick success in the pros had lotsa amateur bouts.

The Cubans got a great amateur program too & you'll rarely find a Cuban pro from their amateur program who ain't pretty damn good & you'll have Guillermo level guys who had a ton of amateur fights & can move up quicker in the pro game. I think amateur experience is underrated these days & I think that WSB deal has & will continue helping guys get some more realistic elite level experiences before they turn pro.

Having said that I would say that in the US there is a slow cook approach to moving guys up. Mike Tyson & Floyd Mayweather both showed exceptional talent upon turning pro & they still had to wait 2 years to get to a title fight (which is about half the time it typically takes & great, but keeping that 0 is still overly important in the US & guys take painfully slow baby steps up in competition). Maybe this whole Vasyl/Zou quick title moves thing will have an impact in boxing & keeping that 0 won't be as valued as testing yourself soon.

ReggieDiggs wrote:I think its more about the amatuer experience/programs. I think most if not all of these guys are older cats, 25+ years old. I think most if not all who've had quick success in the pros had lotsa amateur bouts.

A quick look at the fast rising Japanese kids suggests other wise (all are champs, former champions or world ranked contenders by at least 1 ABC OR top 15 from Boxrec)-
Kasuto Ioka-25 years old and a 2-weight world champion, former unified champion
Ryosuke Iwasa-25 years old
Masayoshi Nakatani-25 years old
Shun Kubo-24 years old
Ryui Hara-24 Years old
Rikki Naito-23 years old (#11 Boxrec)
Tomoki Kameda-23 years old
Sho Ishida-23 year old
Shohei Omori-22 years old
Naoya Inoue-21 years old 2-weight world champion
Ryo Matsumoto-21 years old
Kosei Tanaka-19 years old
Takuma Inoue-19 years old

You then have kids like Ken Shiro and Hinata Maruta* who are teens and set to make an impact on the sport.

From Thailand you have kids like (only former world champions or ranked in an ABC top 15) -
Suriyan Sor Rungvisai-25 years old (which is genuinely surprisingly)
Jomthong Chuwatana-25 years old
Knockout CP Freshmart-24 years old
Yodmongkokl Vor Saengthep-24 years old
Nawaphon Por Chokchai-23 years old
Teerachai Kratingdaenggym-22 years old
Petch Sor Chitpattana-21 years old

I'll admit some of the Thai's have perverse records but they certainly aren't "old cats".

*Hinata Maruta hasn't debuted but will do later this year, he is hoping to fight a "world ranked" foe on his debut.

ElJefe wrote:In boxing today there are very few fighters who want to take on the biggest challenges available to them by fighting other champions - but more and more of the fighters who do want to challenge themselves seem to be coming from Eastern Europe and Asia.

Wladimir Klitschko, Ukraine - Dominated the HW division for nearly 10 years, has beaten every genuine challenger, holds 3/4 belts and wants to fight Wilder to become undisputed champion.

Sergey Kovalev, Russia - Goes into Cleverly's back yard to win his belt, unifies against Bernard and is now chasing Adonis who will probably try to avoid him. Again.

Artur Beterbiev, Russia - Destroyed a former world title champion (Cloud) in his 6th pro fight. Fighting Campillo (who held the WBA belt?) in his 8th fight.

Gennady Golovkin, Kazakhstan - Knocking out any MW brave enough to fight him, has repeatedly said he wants Cotto. Cotto has remained silent since beating Sergio.

Vasyl Lomachenko, Ukraine - Fought for a world title in his second fight. Won a world title in his 3rd fight. Wants to unify with Walters.

Naoya Inoue, Japan - 2 weight world champion within 8 fights.

Zou Shiming, China - Fighting for the IBF flyweight title next month in just his 7th fight.

This isn't me just hating on US/UK/any other fighters. I just don't understand why there is such a difference between Eastern and Western fighters in terms of wanting to prove themselves as the best. It's what makes boxing great but it seems to have been lost on too many fighters these days.

Bernard is an exception but he's old school. Crawford is another guy who won the title away from home, took a tough voluntary against Gamboa and then did an honourable thing in giving Ray Beltran a shot as he probably should have won the title from Ricky Burns before Crawford got his shot. But why is it so rare?

If this trend carries on the Eastern fighters will take over the sport - they are already performing well in the amateurs, within the next 10 to 20 years they will dominate professional boxing. Eastern Europe will dominate the heavier weights, Asians will dominate the lighter weights.

You ask why? in your post it is simple excellent amateur programs with the knowledge left over from the communist days along with strong economic hardship and you get great fighters.
Asians though will have to share the mantle with Mexico and Central/South America at the lighter weights who will put forth tremendous fighters into the near future.

victor-romeo wrote: it is simple excellent amateur programs with the knowledge left over from the communist days along with strong economic hardship and you get great fighters.

Economic hardship helps to attract people to boxing, but how does it help to have fighters prefer taking more risk on early stages of their careers ? Also, I haven't heard about Japan having stronger economic hardships than North America or Western Europe.

ikorolev wrote:

victor-romeo wrote: it is simple excellent amateur programs with the knowledge left over from the communist days along with strong economic hardship and you get great fighters.

Economic hardship helps to attract people to boxing, but how does it help to have fighters prefer taking more risk on early stages of their careers ? Also, I haven't heard about Japan having stronger economic hardships than North America or Western Europe.

My point was more the last part of the authors statement about "Eastern European fighters taking over the sport, within next 10-20 years" although I don't think they will take over sport I do think they will and already are a dominate force in the sport.

As to economic hardship economic hardships not only attract people to boxing but make them train, harder sacrifice more and fight harder.

As to your question about how does economic hardship make fighters take challenges earlier even though it was not what I was initially commenting on I would say, the reason these fighters take challenges earlier is that one they are often prepared to do so by their vast amateur experience,two they don't have time to build a fan base and be coddled as much as western star, and three they are just some tough characters who are willing to take risks to be successful and risk taking is probably a better route from them as they are not Americans and don't speak English well and are trying to make fans with an American western audience.

Three of his examples to me didn't take risks really early that would be GGG and Klitschko and to some extent Kovalev although now established all three men don't seem to duck anyone and take on the toughest challenges.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:I think its more about the amatuer experience/programs. I think most if not all of these guys are older cats, 25+ years old. I think most if not all who've had quick success in the pros had lotsa amateur bouts.

A quick look at the fast rising Japanese kids suggests other wise (all are champs, former champions or world ranked contenders by at least 1 ABC OR top 15 from Boxrec)-
Kasuto Ioka-25 years old and a 2-weight world champion, former unified champion
Ryosuke Iwasa-25 years old
Masayoshi Nakatani-25 years old
Shun Kubo-24 years old
Ryui Hara-24 Years old
Rikki Naito-23 years old (#11 Boxrec)
Tomoki Kameda-23 years old
Sho Ishida-23 year old
Shohei Omori-22 years old
Naoya Inoue-21 years old 2-weight world champion
Ryo Matsumoto-21 years old
Kosei Tanaka-19 years old
Takuma Inoue-19 years old

You then have kids like Ken Shiro and Hinata Maruta* who are teens and set to make an impact on the sport.

From Thailand you have kids like (only former world champions or ranked in an ABC top 15) -
Suriyan Sor Rungvisai-25 years old (which is genuinely surprisingly)
Jomthong Chuwatana-25 years old
Knockout CP Freshmart-24 years old
Yodmongkokl Vor Saengthep-24 years old
Nawaphon Por Chokchai-23 years old
Teerachai Kratingdaenggym-22 years old
Petch Sor Chitpattana-21 years old

I'll admit some of the Thai's have perverse records but they certainly aren't "old cats".

*Hinata Maruta hasn't debuted but will do later this year, he is hoping to fight a "world ranked" foe on his debut.

Well the Asian guys are a lil different. Their typically the lower weight guys who have few minefields to be highly ranked cuz those divisions tend to have less fighters & thats been the case for awhile. I remember first seeing rankings for lower weight guys & was always a lil surprised there was virtually always guys with under 10 fights ranked there. Thats just how its is & how its been. The Thailand guys specifically often have Muay Thai experience too that help move them along quicker in boxing.

Its not a cultural mentality that these are why things are. It just the way things are & its largely always been that way. Jeff Fenech won three titles quick back in the day. Leon Spinks beat Ali in his 7th(?) fight or whatever. That Pete Radamacher(?) guy challenged Floyd Patterson in his pro debut. There are dozens upon dozens of examples of early success in boxing at different times by a tiny fringe group of exceptional fighters earlier in their careers, but its never been a cultural sorta thing outside of certain countries having more impact in certain divisions cuz people tend to be certain sizes in certain regions.

Having said all that I just don't see this as anything other than an anomaly happening most often among some very small group of "freaks" or "outliers" that are capable of rising quicker, but they are still more freaks & outliers & imo based off of a stronger amateur system making stronger fighters at the top of the amateur food chain moving into the pro game than this is some new positioning based off of some cultural mentality. Cuz you won't see this sorta thing happening anywhere near as much when there isn't a strong amateur background &/or highly successful amateur career.

If this trend carries on the Eastern fighters will take over the sport - they are already performing well in the amateurs, within the next 10 to 20 years they will dominate professional boxing. Eastern Europe will dominate the heavier weights, Asians will dominate the lighter weights.[/quote]


Sounds like wishful thinking, but wishful thinking sells tickets, so it's all good. I think Mexico and other places will have something to say about that.